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How easy is it to teach yourself to run differently?
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One of the things that helps me to improve slightly is to concentrate on the stronger bits of my legs - ie be conscious of the movement of my thighs pushing my legs forward. This seems to make me faster and relieves the pressur on my ankles.
I try and remember to do strengthening exercises for my ankles, knees hips etc (there were some pretty good ones in RW a month or so ago). The theory is that strengthening the weak bits will straighten up the gait.... but maybe I'm kidding myself.
Enough rambling - concentrate on the good areas and build up the weak areas - the your gait has a chance to sort itself out naturally.
I've got the funniest little run ever, hubby reckons I run like a lizard! My one foot swings around a little as well and there's nothing I can do to stop it, as it feels so natural! To top it all I'm a flat footed mild supinator as well which is strange (I thought so, but had it confirmed by Adidas footscan technology yesterday).
But it matters not, I wear the shoe that suits (cushioned) and despite training hard for my 3rd marathon, I rarely get injured and am hitting a few PB's every month.
So as my example proves, don't worry, as long as you're not injured and wearing the correct footwear, relax, don't worry, and enjoy! Happy running!
During the switch over i had sore calf muscles but once i got used it i was fine ........as RIBS says get shoes with full lenght Cushion ......
I think the trick is to take the change over very gradually or you will injure yourself
Cheers
Dave
Having said that I have been following some of the techniques in Danny Dreyers' "Chi Running" and they work. By having better "form" you have to fight your body less and you flow better, getting more out of less mileage.
Is it worth the (substantial) time and effort? Well that depends on how dissatisfied you are with your present technique. If you have persistent injury problems, or are unable to run fast despite expending lots of energy (and these things bother you), then it probably is.
Also, do a bit of research into running form and look at the way runners with good form run - this could be one genuine benefit of youtube! Sebastion Coe, El Guerrouj etc. (just a couple of examples off the top of my head – you could probably find lots of others)
Is it worth it? It was for me, but it certainly wasn’t easy
Further word of warning: if you are trained to a reasonable level (and it sounds like you are, given that you've got a coach) you will find it incredibly frustrating bringing your speed and distances down to a "beginner" level when you get started on the 'new style'. If you go for a 'normal' distance/speed run using a newly modified gait you are practically guaranteed to hurt something! Gently does it.
It's pretty easy to change your style, it's the building your mileage up again and dealing with the associated problems, that can be a bit difficult. It is, however, well worth persevering with as I have no injury problems now, and the actual process of running is a lot more enjoyable now.
I definitely agree with reducing the mileage right down. First week I just did reps of 100m just to get the feel of the style I was changing to. Follwing week I was running a mile continuously, just a mile for a session. Slow and steady development of mileage wins the race - above all, it takes patience.
Be prepared for shin splints, I had a week of them and I had to do some research on overcoming them. Also, calves gave me a few aches. But that was about it.
Before the orthoses I was a sort of midfoot striker but the orthoses make me land heavily on the rearfoot
So where do I start training for forefoot?remove the orthoses and stick with the cushion shoes or is it another trawl around the running shops for suitable shoes?
So then as B says gradually build up daily
feck!
What is forefoot striking, landing on the toes? I can't think of anyone does that. Running style is essentially a dichotomy - heel-striking or mid-foot striking (ie ball of foot). No-one runs a marathon on their toes.
And what do you mean by "heel striking and moving back into a more mid foot style"?
If you mid-foot strike then you do not toe-off and the foot does not become rigid as you push-off. If you heel strike then your foot is tensed as you push-off in order to put the ground behind you.
Whether your foot is rigid as you push-off or not is not really that important. What is more important is finding a running style that suits you. It should be noted that there are a number of world class heel-strikers.
I have been trying to concentrate, after advice, on putting the heel of my shoe down first, by "moving back into a more mid foot style" I mean landing a little flatter ie between the heel only or fore-foot only to more of a little of both, which seems a little more natural for me... (not flat footed but more of a roll)That heel busines feels weird.
Running on the balls of my feet maintains rigidity through foot strike to toe off, which is what I have been warned is not good for me as the foot never relaxes
I do not doubt that there are many world class heel strikers, as most shoes are designed for that specific style of running which is probabaly considered normal...and that is exactly what puts me in a quandry.
I feel you have been misinformed - if anything, my feet feel more relaxed on running now that I mid-foot strike.
I have run half-marathons in racers with a mid-foot strike no problem at all. I feel that some people must be scare-mongering.
if heel-striking feels weird then don't do it.
If I can digress for a moment. IMHO, I think most human activities boil down to some combination of the following three parts:
1. Skill
2. Process
3. The Human Factor
I hope you can appreciate that these parts are all inter-linked. Problems happen when there is too much (or too little) emphasis on one part over the other two. Especially, when there is a difference between what your combination and that to which the the activity requires. For example, I may have the passion but not the skill therefore my career as a professional footballer is highly unlikely.
I've had these notions for many years long before I became a runner and they're very much part of my way of understanding the world. So when I took up running I immediately tried to apply these notions to it.
For running this equates to:
1. The way you run ie fluidity, smoothness, your entire 'whole body' movement, not just heel-striking, running mid-foot (flat) or ball-of-foot (forefoot) running.
2. The training approach you follow ie miles, intensity, pace, RHR, %MHR, %V02Max, rest periods, nutrition, hydration, injury management, running shoes and other gear etc
3. Personality (ie tenacity, determination, motivation, discipline, calmness, etc etc etc).
No huge paradigm-shift there but just in case anyone has missed it: I believe that running style is a Skill. Any skill can be identified, learnt, taught and measured against a standard. There will always be some people who have had some major trauma such that they are already at the limit of what they can bio-mechanically do. I used to be an obese 17st couch potato and that has not stopped me from questioning and improving my running style.
Most typical runners I've spoken to have only consider points 2 and 3 in their normal daily endeavours. I'm sure experienced professional and elite runners spend much more time on their technique. For example, consider the main chatroom headings on RW - I would argue that running skill is not the same as Training).
I would rate item 1 easily as important as the other two. All three deserve equal respect.
Therefore, I am being entirely consistent in my arguments when people ask me "Will running in racing flats make me faster?" and I reply "Maybe...", as running shoes is really part of Item2.
In essence, if you enjoy the way you run, ie you're fairly niggle free, perhaps you complete training sessions feeling mentally better then when you started, perhaps you're physically "pleasantly fatigued" (as opposed to quite sore such that the next day MUST be a rest day), you find your schedule challenging but certainly not unmanageable/unachievable, then please don't change. Since you probably have the above three items in appropriate balance for you.
For example, right now my training is inconsistent due to work/family pressure. I'm not making enough of a commitment to training therefore item3 is an issue for me.
(/cont)
One way of realising that you're "out of balance" and that it may be your style is that you've exhausted all possible solutions for items 2 and 3. As Sir Arthur Conan Doyle once wrote for Sherlock Holmes: When you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
Once you've decided that out of these three bits it is indeed Running Style that you need to change, then I have to say: Congratulations! You have acknowledged the existence of "Running as a skill" and made a conscious decision to learn that skill. Accepting this simple fact is the first and possibly the single biggest most important step you can take in improving your overall running career, general enjoyment and hopefully race objectives. Your next step is to research and experience a change in style. Just to sit back and be an armchair analyst is not enough. You should try to find an experienced coach or a sympathetic group of running friends with whom you can contrast and compare your styles with.
As previously stated, I came across the notion of "Running as a skill" pretty much the same time when I became a new runner. As a newbie, I researched these concepts on the Internet and the only website that I felt that was in-line with my notions above was Pose. Pose running can be identified, learnt, taught and compared to a Standard Model. Furthermore, there are specific drills to help you improve, refine and maintain your running skill. Of course, if you don't accept the Pose concepts (for whatever reasons) then it's a free country so good luck to you.
To be pedantic Pose running strictly means being on the ball-of-foot, landing softly yet directly under your GCM/hip area with a slight bend at the knee, then with a perceived straight-body lean from the ankles to pull/lift the ankle upwards under the GCM with your hamstrings (though other muscles are used!) and maintaining a high cadence throughout. The key part is to keep a fluid, relaxed running style. This is not the same as bounding tensely on your toes with heavily contracted calf muscles (like a ballet dancer).
Where as other styles are mid-foot ie landing flat with more emphasis on landing on the heel then in Pose.
Before various peeps start sharpening their cutlery ;-) ... Yes - Pose could be much better explained and I've had to battle my own inner science-based demons to exactly how it really works as opposed to how it is explained - but at the end of it all, I'm confident in my understanding of it, over and above all the other styles out there. It works for me - but then again what do I know, I'm strictly an amateur but a happy runner :-)
For those who land forefoot yet suffer from achilles woes and pulled calfs for longer distances: If you accept the Pose concepts and follow the drills then you can quickly learn to land softly under your GCM (even wearing thin light-weight shoes) - with minimal soreness to your ankles, calfs and knees over your desired race distance. This technique can be learnt quicker then if you went through an extended painful period of trial and error. If you wish to find out more, I explained the reasons behind calf-pain recently on the Pose Thread.
So Lyra, in a nutshell, learning any skill takes time and commitment. If anything, stay off your heels. The rest is up to you.
Good luck :-)
PS: I'm naturally cynical but I've always had a passion for learning and eventually sharing what I've learnt to others. If people want to question/challenge what I've learnt for their own self-improvement and understanding then that is a debate I'm very happy to partake. Afterall, they may be right and I might be wrong. If people want to immediately pigeon-hole me as a zealot then I have no time for them.
I think that there is often some confusion about the term mid-foot. There is the heel and there is the ball of the foot. It is possible to land towards the back or front of the ball of the foot, although personally I would prefer to land squarely on the ball of the foot. The mid foot suggests to me, the arch between the heel and the ball of the foot. I don’t quite see how it would be possible let alone desirable to land on this part of the foot.
I am also a bit confused by your description of tension and relaxation. It is entirely possible to maintain a relaxed foot when forefoot (ball of foot!) striking, and in fact actually necessary.
I know some coaches do advocate landing flat-footed and Pirie, for example advocates transferring the weight back to the heel during the support phase but why over-complicate things when it’s so much easier to land quickly and lightly on the ball of the foot?
You mentioned that you have been advised to land further back on your foot, and I am a bit mystified by this. If you are running successfully on your forefoot why change? Most people struggle to go in the other direction.
nrg-b,
My cutlery is staying in the drawer!
Last summer I decided after reading the Pose/Chi running threads that I would try to change my running style to mid/forefoot striking because of the lower back problems I had been suffering from for some years. I thought that a softer landing through the legs might stop the jarring of my spine.
Gradually over some weeks I changed from low mileage to higher and from stability shoes to Nike Frees. It all felt very comfortable and the results on my back were good.
Then I started to get knee pain in my right knee. A sharp pain on landing now and again. Over a few weeks this turned into constant aching and pain and then the left one joined in. I rested on and off and went to physio who diagnosed maltracking pattella and strained ACLs.
I have run on and off since then but not properly since August last year. I now get patella tendonitis as well as the other problem. The opinion of the medics is that it was partly caused through lack of support in the shoes.No excercises have made the problem go away.
I am very fed up with this as it has effectively stopped my running and I never had a knee problem in the 8 years that I was heel striking.
I have tried to go back to the heel striking way of running but now it feels very akward and clumsy.
I really don't know where to go from here.
Do you think this was caused by my change of running style?
No restitution in the sole/ upper, in other words they are completely floppy, you need shoes that provide some support.
You can run mid-foot in cushioned shoes, such as Asics Gel cumulus, however, you probably would struggle to run POSE in these.
I have read that mid/forefoot stiking is best for knees.
I don't actually run Pose but take a bit from there and a bit from Chi and do what feels comfortable.
When I run heelstriking now I feel like I am thumping my foot on the ground so its not a natural feeling but landing with the knee bent for midfoot makes my knees hurt.
Once you have time off to recover and go back to mid-foot running you will be fine as long as you wear decent shoes. So don't panic.
Landing with bent knee with your foot under centre of gravity is fine.
Nike Frees are a crime against running.
I really sympathise with your predicament. Yes, heel striking does feel impossibly awkward once you’ve made the transition.
I’m not qualified to offer any advice about how to treat your injury, but I would strongly suggest that you recover from it fully before you start running again. Has your physio suggested any alternative exercise that you could do to maintain fitness?
I do not believe that forefoot striking in itself has caused your injury - rather I suspect that there is some fault in your technique that is the problem. Over-striding or too much tension in the lower tension in your lower legs are the obvious culprits, buts that’s just a guess. The fact that you have problems in both legs suggests that you are definitely doing something incorrectly.
Do you actively hold your heels off the ground or do you keep your foot relaxed so that your heel sometimes brushes the ground on landing when you’re running slowly? The latter is correct. To make this clear, it doesn’t matter if you’re heel brushes the ground or not, so long as your weight is on the ball of your foot.
Do you have a feeling of lightness and ”bounciness” when you run? That’s how I feel when I get it right.
The main thing is that the whole running cycle is a series of integrated movements and if one link in the chain is wrong it throws everything out.
Just a final thought: I’m sure many people like running in the Nike free, but I would find the heel much too high and cushioned. You might find a true racing flat gives you a better foot strike. Really, if you’re running correctly support shouldn’t be an issue. All I want from a pair of shoes (and I don’t want to get into the barefoot running debate!) is a bit of protection from stones etc.
I’m sorry that I can’t offer any specific suggestions.
Nrg-b,
I’m still trying to get my head round the idea of you as a 17 stone couch potato!
I race on my fore-foot ...but if I'm having a "bad mile" i cut over to heel strike ...just that slight change is often enough for me to get a 2nd wind and switch back to my fore-foot .....
At an extreme you could run heel stike one day forefoot the next - using slightly different muscles (or in sligtly different ways) helps to spread the load
Dave
I run in stability shoes because I over pronate, worse in the right foot. If I squat the right knee and ankle turn in and when I run both knees go inwards. If I don't wear stability shoes my knees can actually knock together!
When I ride my bike my right knee rubs on the top tube when I get tired.
I think when I am running I try to keep my heels off the ground. Occasionally I get the "bounciness" you talk about. When it all comes together it feels wonderful but it hasn't happened for quite some time now as I seem to be tense and waiting for the pain to strike all the time.
I have just come back from a 2 mile run/walk and it was pain free. I did put more of my foot on the ground than usual and maybe that had something to do with it.
I will try to do the heel brushing the ground thing in future and see if that helps.
I love the Frees and I know some people run all the time in them but they are obviously no good for me. It has made me very wary of wearing less supportive shoes.