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Are you inspired by Alex Vero's ambitions, or slightly insulted?
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Time will tell.
Zoe, I'm a great admirer of those who give it all they've got, and I'd like to think that those who know me, would see me as the same. Everyone who steps out the door in an effort to improve themselves runningwise deserves respect - that's you, me and all the other people on this forum who buy into the idea of self improvement from commitment and effort. The thing that gets me on my high horse is the idea that someone can command respect and admiration simply by saying what's he's going to do. If he delivers than he most certainly will command my respect. However I believe that I have enough knowledge about what it takes to know that what Alex says can't be done. In summsry I admire commitment and effort but I get really irritated by people who think that its all about wanting it badly enough and shouting it loudly enough. From a personal point of view I could tell every one that I'm capable of running (say) a sub 2:40 marathon and I want to do it really, really badly aand will do anything it takes....what do I get in return, lots of wishes of good luck...totally worthless, since I'm incapaple of achieving my objective.
Hilly, in one sentence you say "I don't think anyone should place limits on what they can achieve" and in another you say "Yes, I know we all have a ceiling". Perhaps you'd like to reconcile those two points of view. From my own viewpoint I agree with your second statement that we do have ceilings. However I believe those ceilings should be attainable and not hopelessly out of reach.
On a more personal level, for you early 2006 was a remarkable period in which your level of performance shifted significantly - I think I was one of the few people who suggested that your additude to running would never be quite the same again. I think it would also be fair to say that your level of performance for this year has made you wonder whether you can get back to those "glory days". I suspect that you believe you can, and in the spirit of this thread I wish you luck in your efforts. Similarly, I also had a purple patch in 2005, difference is, I think that those days are lost to me for ever. Perhaps thats the difference between me and you (and most of the othe people who post on this thread). I think it's lost, they think that its recoveable and that anything is possible. You may take the view that that reflects my pessimism whereas I should be mirroring the optimism of my fellow posters.
Finally to dispell the ambiguity of the Folkestone sub 50 comment. Two years ago, before you and BR were an item, he and Pantman ran the Folkestone 10M - the head to head between the "forum giants". Unfortunately neither BR or Pantman ran to expectations, and in the aftermath of the race, and in response to some comments I made on the subject of unrealistic expectations (similar to my views expressed on this thread), Pantman posted the following......
...."Tom - put your money where your mouth is!! If I break 50min in the next 24 months (up to and inc. Folkestone 10 2007) will you take myself, my lovely wife and my five hungry kids out to our favourite local eatery? Surely, you'll agree - surely it is safe money> ;-) And, no, I won't be offering anything if I don't do it - I never said I would!
But for the record, I believe I will and I don't consider it unrealistic."
On the basis of my current knowledge of Pantman's activities, I don't think he has delivered on his boast. It also of course encapsulates my views expressed on all the issues raised on thisvthread.
Well, I think that just about does it for me.
Just thought i'd quote the Steve Ovett autobiography im reading at the moment..."any idiot can become an Olympic champion provided that they have a lot of luck, work hard and cross the finish line first in the final"!
I dont think personally you require a great amount of skill for running, which is why comparing running to sports such as football & cricket is pointless. Alot of the most successfull runners came to athletics after being incapable at other sports. It is an individual sport so you get out what you put in, but i think genetics do eventually put a limit on what you can achieve
Im sitting on the fence on this one! I cant see why runners are being offended though he comes across more ignorant than arrogant... If Steven Gerrard or Wayne Rooney (i hate them both!) heard about an unknown just about playing amateur level, saying they were going to get in the England football team they would laugh about it. Its very unlikely he'll get 2.15 on his current progress maybe sub 2.30 in 2008, but as i dont know him, trained or raced against him i dont think id be in a position to judge either, id still put a bet on him not doing it if anyone fancied taking me up though!?
Placing a limitation is a negative thing - ie `I will never run a 2:15 marathon'. I don't think that way. That is not the same as saying we all have a ceilng. I just prefer not to pluck a number from the air to apply to that ceiling.
Thank you for clarifying the Folkestone 10 comment (where BR says he beat Pantman, Big Tim and Micksta whilst running the best he could on the day under stressful circumstances which unravelled at FLM within a month).
As for my purple patch I'm confident enough to say watch this space - there will be more. Maybe not such big improvements as I made last time but I believe there's still more left in me and I still have the drive and determination I had back then. I've yet to reach my ceiling!
Tom - I never called myself any such name - I think you're referring to a comment made by Micksta after the HBO 10k last year. Keep going and you'll have attributed the Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address and the `We'll fight them on the beaches' statements to me by tea time today:-))
To amplify the ceiling point - I'm smart enough in my heart to know I'll never run a sub 2:30 marathon. I don't think in those terms though. I think I can improve on what I have achieved but don't like to bandy numbers around - just to train as race as best I can given the hand I hold.
In cricket a keen eye and excellent hand / eye co-ordination are necessary for success at the top level. One would need to add hours of practice and training on top of that to make it.
In running, rather than hand / eye skill, a high Vo2 max, high LT and excellent biomechanics are pre-requisites for elite performance.
The principle is the same - genetic gifts, be they ball based or CV based, on top of which is needed years of training.
sprinting toffee - think I have to agree with amadeus; just because there isn't an obvious physical skill (throwing, catching, etc.) doesn't mean that running isn't incredibly skilled: pace judgment, both when racing and training, is key. Tactically, knowing when to surge and when to reign things in, etc. It's still about teaching muscles what to do, it's just that we tend to think of running as simple because it's something we all know how to do.
It would be like saying singing is easier than playing the violin/trumpet/piano on the basis that most of us can manage a bit of basic singing, but wouldn't have much of chance of sounding half-decent when we first picked up a trumpet. But to say because of that, that singing is easier than playing a musical instrument, when done properly, is wrong. And it's just the same with running or any other sport. Yes, there is undoubtedly talent involved, but also hard work, usually for years.
This is why Vero, in all likelihood, will not achieve his goals (neither time, nor being on the team). He can try, and as far as I'm concerned, he can make as much song and dance about it in the process as he wants: ultimately, the people who make the team in 2008, 2012, etc., are the people who have that combination of talent and graft (and maybe a small bit of luck). If Vero's story makes people realise the years of graft it takes to make it to the top, maybe it will have a positive effect long-term. I don't see that, ultimately, that diminshes our sport.
My short term aim is to run the Paris Marathon in a time of 2 hours 30 minutes, becoming one of the top 40 Marathon runners in the UK. If I can achieve this goal I will have some of the funds needed to produce the documentary and explore what it takes to get from a very good club marathon runner to an Olympic athlete. In no way do I have any intention of degrading the UK elite marathon runners of this generation or anyone that has every tried before. I want to shed light on the hardships, sacrifices and the dedication that it take to get to the top of this most gruelling sport. Even if I run the qualifying time in 2008 there is a chance that I will not be selected due to my lack of experience. If I don't achieve my target it will show that you need that something else to get to the top as I can assure you that it will not be through lack of perseverance or hard work. If I do reach my goal then it opens up a whole new debate as to what really is possible, and I hope that it will inspire others to challenge their own perceived limitations.
I honestly can't see anything wrong with that.
Whilst Vero is very quick to always point out that it is a veyr small chance of qualifying, why on earth has he entitled his website the road to Beijing rather than the road to London? He's just advertising off of the olympics.
URR- Agree Lemoncello is not marathon specific, but he's unarguably a swift young 10,000m runner! He'll try to qualify in steeple (I'm not sure he's totally put that behind him yet) or 10,000.
Over last two years...major talent has been Moumin Geele. Not sure what he's doing atm, but he's got the credentials if you believe his 10 mile time to run a fast marathon given a certain level of improvement.
Last person I can think of and no idea if he's planning it or not but it wouldn't surprise me. Frank Tickner, finished with uni, wouldn't surprise me to see a campaign by him to run a marathon and try and get in the team.
Pug
Hi Mark
Thanks very much for the advice. I am heading off on Saturday morning on the
Eurostar so should be all pretty easy as I live 5 mins from waterloo and the
hotel is 5 mins from the start line. I am feeling great at the moment and
had a good session with my coach today consisting of 300's just to get a
little bit of speed back into the legs. The taper seems to be working a
treat and I think I will be peaking at just the right time. I am going to
stick to the plan as you said and run restrained till at least 20 miles
where I still want to be feeling good. I will certainly let you know my race
number and will be in touch after the race to let you know how I get on.
Best of luck with the rest of your training and stay focused. Thanks very
much for all the support to date and I hope that come next week I would have
posted a time to be pleased with.
Best wishes
Alex
He's feeling good... and looks like he's going for a 1:19 - 1:17 split I think (although I may be wrong, can't remember 100%)... good luck to him I say ;-)
I'm predicting a 2:37:44
Pug
Pug
kilometre Temps de passage Position
km 10 09h 23' 59" 463th
km 21 10h 07' 14" 385th