Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
Are you inspired by Alex Vero's ambitions, or slightly insulted?
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
I have known women in 4 running clubs over the past 10 years and all the women who train well, be that off high intense mileage or longer slower mileage have all achieved this standard.
I believe as a F43 I could break 2:50 for the marathon (currently 2:56), 36.xx 10k and sub 18k 5k.
Hilly- good to see some sort of verification and best of luck for next weekend, take care with your build back up from injury and hopefully you'll be back in shape to have another crack at 2:50 for the autumn.
My initial thoughts about Alex were the same as most of the old-timers – “what an arrogant upstart” (or something along those lines ;-). However, from the comments of people who know Alex, he seems like a decent guy. I think he was very naive to get his publicity machine running before really appreciating the task he had set himself (I still don’t think he really understands).
To put it into stark terms, who do you think he will knock out of the Olympic team – Jon Brown, Dan Robinson or Pete Riley? Or how is he going to make the team when there are probably about 1,000 blokes training better than him right now?
That said, I know how it feels to have an injury wipe out months of hard work and sacrifice. I wish him well for the future and hope he bounces back.
Oh...and just to upset those who like to justify their limited ambition by genetic pseudo-science...He probably can run 2:15 – but not next year.....and not without a lot more hard work.
- it was to that one post that I was replying.
I posted early on this thread, and very soon got quite depressed by the dismissive, negative, and even ill-wishing posts that appeared in relation to the Vero quest. I have left well alone since, but just knew there would be at least one swipe at todays performance in a "told you so" style.
As for the relavence of the posts - well anything relating to the title of the thread I see as being highly relavent - whether you consider it to be interesting or not is down to your own opinion.
On the matter of the sub-plot developed around a sub 36 10k, I think it is a soft target to set. Given the knowledge of how to train, the time to train and recover, and the desire I really think it should be in most people's reach.
Oh do shut up. There is nothing pseudo-scientific about either the claim that people have different potentials depending upon abilities that are at least partly inscribed in genes (and manifest through their phenotypes). Nor is there anything pseudo-scientific about claiming that one requires evidence - and not a cascade of post hoc errors - before asserting that somebody can run X speed for X distance if only they wanted it enough, trained hard enough, in the right way, with the right dedication, right team of phyiotherapiest, right altitude, no fat, no injuries, blah, blah, blah.
The arrogance and condescension of asserting that if people don't achieve the times that they want it is because of "limited ambition" or "not wanting it enough" or "not working hard enough" is stunning.
My guess is that if we all had unlimited time to train, our individual sessions wouldn't be that much harder. It's just instead of only doing two of them a week we could probably do 4-5 a week. All that extra time available would be spend in recovery, massage and strengthening. The thing that gets most of us "part time trainers" is the time it takes to recover, the lack of instant access to physio and the lurking presence of injury.
MikeB - BR says it's hard to comment on other people's potential unless you know the intricate details of how much work affects them - eg is it sednetary or manual, is it high stress with a poor boss or are you able to work at your own pace, how much commuting do you have etc etc?
Bryn - it's White Peak I'm doing on 19th May - no FLM this year due to too much missed training through injury.
I was thinking the win the lottery and live the Paula lifestyle type potential - but it's just a dream (and I suspect I would get VERY bored)
I guess in reality it's about doing the best we can within the parameters our lifestyle decisions / circumstances allow us!
I apply the same standards to myself.
I don't spend months of the year at altitude
I don't have regular massage therapy
I don't stretch enough
I don't do any weight-training
I let my family commitments interrupt my training
I spend too long at work
Even when I was committed to this running lark, I wasn't consistent.
All of us make choices. Let's just be honest about it, nobody on this forum has come anywhere close to their "genetic limits". None of us truly "wants it" enough.
Sounds like pseudo-science to me
Genes get you 2:05 in a marathon, hard graft and determination, and not being a fat twat and luck gets you a 2:30. That's my deifnition and I'm sticking to it!
... otherwise I may as well go home now incase I don't have the right genes.
It's like fat people saying "i'm fat because it's my genes, it runs in my family"... no it's becaus eyou eat sh*t, sit on your arse all day and do nothing... there isn't a bloke on this forum under 40 that with some decent hard work, couldn't get down to a sub 40 10k... everyone can do it... it's the excuses that make this country pathetic.
I can't do this that and the other because of this that and the other. Jesus, no wonder this countries athletics quality is down the pan... everyone has made a decision on how good they can be before they start!
Man I;m in a bad mood, so I think I'll leave for a cool down!
Pug
Some excited posters on this thread tonight:-)
It does amaze me when people think that because there is an obvious correlation for the most part in running between training and performance that somehow it follows all the way to elite levels. If you practice more at football do you get better, YES, does that mean you can be a premiership footballer if you practice hard enough NO!
Hilly- I'd guessed you weren't doing FLM but wasn't sure how long you were leaving it. Do take care returning as someone who has plenty of injuries from coming back too fast, avoiding getting injured again is no. 1 priority.
Something that's been quite interesting to watch is the rise of Mo Farah. Already a good athlete but not the greatest yet still training fairly hard. Sorts out everything else in his lifestyle and takes a top ten position at the world cross. Interesting that even at elite level sorting everything else out has a big effect.
I think you should have the knowledge before calling it pseudo science.
Genetics play a massive part in the way one develops through training and his/her ability to perform at high level.
You clearly need to do some reading on the subject.
The point I think TT was making was that none of us really know just how genetics affects someones athletic ability and so our speculation on it is pure pseudo-science whilst the science of how genetics affect athletic performance is clearly not.
When it comes to genetics and it's affect on performance I'm generally just quite happy to say that there is a variable according to genetics that as we don't understand it yet is know as talent and people can have more or less.
That said I also think that there are massively different types of talent...putting together a whole model of what creates a runner is infuriating :O(.
regarding weight problems
there are a collection of genes that code for metabolic proteins that can determine if you are a fast or slow metaboliser.
People have got fatter over the last few years (environmental component) but it doesn't take away the fact that some people are more predisposed to get fatter than others. (genetic component).
you can hypothesise there is both an environmental and genetic factors involved in ahtletic performance as well.
Why are the kenians so successful? Of course they train hard in extreme conditions but, at the same time, they have the "perfect" biotype for endurance running.(long limbs, low content of body fat, high aerobic abiliby) all linked to genetics.
rant off.
Peeps do not realise how important genetics is in determining most aspects of our lifes.:o)
Like Pug, I get annoyed with the current vogue for blaming genetics for all our short-comings, as if it absolves our responsibility for working to our best abilities with the hand that we have been dealt.
Correct me if I’m missing the point, but my understanding is that genetic traits are set at the moment of conception. I suspect that as embryos, the majority of us had the potential to become Olympic finalists in some event or other. After 40 years of ‘bad living’, the fact that I am not an Olympic athlete is down to my lack of appropriate circumstances, desire and application – not genetics.
Themoabird – your earlier assertions about rugby players / rowers misses the point. They don’t have a ‘rugby gene’ that prevents them from being runners. They have spent years adapting their bodies to be great at playing rugby – to the detriment of their future running potential.
Good luck in London.
PARIS MARATHON :- 3 hours 11 minutes
Having dedicated the last 14 months of my life towards this project the result in Paris was heart wrenching. I was in the shape of my life, felt full of energy if not a little nervous before the start, but was safe in the knowledge that I had done everything asked of my to achieve my revised target time of 2 hours 36 minutes.
It was a hot day in Paris, but I had prepared for this after succumbing to the heat in Palma in October and had learnt my lessons of the importance of hydration the hard way. I had gone to such lengths that I had a soaked cap waiting a few km past the half way mark to deal with the sun. I met up with my friend Hugh from the Serpentine Running Club and ran the first 10km eight seconds under my target and felt great heading up to the park. At 12 km I felt a slight twinge at the top of my left leg in the ITB/Hip rejoin but thought that I would be able to run it out. At 17km it was still there, if not a little worse and I stopped to stretch and have a pee.
After a minute of stretching I got right back into it, thinking that I would be able to make up the time in the last 12km but to stick to the pace that I had been going at. 3km latter I had to stretch again which by this stage was becoming indicative of a small tear becoming exacerbated by continuing. Still I though I would just grin and bare it as I was feeling very fresh still and felt I might be able to get around in 2 hours 45 minutes.
At 22km I was reduced to walking and had to get on the ground to stretch it out and should have thrown in the towel but for some reason I did not. I thought of the members of my family who have given so much support to me from the start and thinking of them stationed along the next 10km waiting and willing me on, I felt a sense of pride that no matter what happened in the next 20km I would finish this race and that at least in their eyes I could hold my head up high.
The next 20km was the most painful and helpless experience of my life with a combination of; walking, jogging and stretching I finally made it to the finish line. I felt unbelievably frustrated. I had in the past thought of every scenario that would have prevented me from reaching this time but injury never past my mind. I might have had a few niggles over the last 14 months but nothing at all in the last 6 weeks and never a problem with the ITB/Hip area. To say the least I am absolutely gutted!
Sitting here writing this after returning home on the EuroStar from Paris I not only am in a lot of pain in the ITB/Hip area but I have a splitting pain down my right shin caused by the compensation of shifting my weight while running on my right leg to take some of the pressure off the left leg.
At this time after this setback at the moment to tell you the truth I don't know what I am going to do. It was a failure but an inconclusive failure. I am going to the physio tomorrow and will have a better understanding of how it is and whether I will be able to run in the near future. To give up after all the dedication and hard work in training though after the nature of the failure would be foolish but when an if I can run again is undecided... cont
Pug
Thank you very much to all those that have supported me throughout and good luck to those running running in London next week. May I wish you far better luck then me.
Pug
What I do know is that he needs to pull something pretty special out the bag now to convince the doubters.
Why didn't he DNF?
This is the problem that I have had since I first read about him. Regardless of genetics and talent, which clearly will have bearing on performace, to run at the levels that he wants to run at requires both the above and also experience. Perhaps experience should have told him that continuing in the race and getting 3Hrs+ is going to do him no favours at all and DNF will mean at least the injury will not be exacerbated.
I mentioned this previously somewhere but IMHO running at the levels that he aspires to is not just about running the times, it is about racing the distance - and this can only be learned by racing. Surly he would be better going away and racing shorter distances. This would benefit him twofold, one he would get faster, and two he would learn to race.
Just a thought, perhaps then he wouldn't have pushed to far yesterday and could now be looking at a much longer layoff.
Just a thought.
FIN