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Congrats sequin. Freddie was one of our choices, but he looked more like a Joshua!!
Don't rush coming back, recover first, look forward to hearing all about it.
Hetty, I put my two inseparate cots when their heads met in the middle, must have been around 4 months as I remember going away with two travel cots. They used to whack each other with their arms and started moving towards each other. It has to be done sometime ;o) I remember worrying that they would be lonely, but they soon adjust. Now we go in their room in the mornings and they are standing at the ends of their cots chatting away and giggling. I think it must be so different being a single baby.
MR, J is now on 50th centile, was born below the 2nd!! He has stopped expanding now as he is very close to walking so uses up loads of energy. H is tiny, still below the 9th.
Congratulations Sequin - and welcome to the Other Side!!
EF, totally agree about weaning. Originally we thought that we would have to put Kit in nursery (until my mum decided to semi-retire and offered to have him two days per week) and there was no way I wanted him to be weaned by anyone other than me. As I was going back to work when he was 7 months, I started weaning at 5.5 months (actually I think it was about 10 days before he reached 6 months in the end) so that he would be well established on solids by the time I started work. I feel very lucky that Mum has him, as he gets to eat what I want him to have, when I want him to have it. I'm not sure how religiously nurseries are able to follow parents' wishes as they obviously have a number of children to care for.
MR, can I ask why you're trying to drop Megans's 11:30pm feed? At 7 weeks I would say she's a little too young (and a little too light) to get through the night without a "dream feed". Yes, Kit was bottle-fed from 1 week; I just couldn't hack the breastfeeding. We didn't demand-feed at all, apart from the 2/3am feed. We fed him at 6:30pm before putting him to bed, then woke him at 10pm (gradually this moved from 10pm to 10:30pm as he got older) for a "dream feed" before we went to bed ourselves. In the early days this feed was hard as he was so sleepy - I remember a couple of times having to lay him on the floor to get him to wake up enough to feed. I think for the first week or so we woke him again at 2:30am, then decided it made more sense to let him wake up when he wanted to for the "graveyard shift" feed. Once he started waking nearer to 5:00-5:30am, which I think was around 10 weeks, we gave him a small feed (a couple of ounces or so) then fed him again at 7-7:30am. But we didn't cut out the 10:30pm feed until we started weaning him - he slept through from 10:30pm until 7am from about 12 weeks (with a few blips!) We probably could have cut this feed out earlier but I thought that until he was on solids, he may not have enough in his tum to get him through especially once he started to get quite big. My HV said we shouldn't attempt to cut out the graveyard shift feed until he was at least 11-12lb as he needed the nourishment until his body was big enough to sustain him.
Got absolutely SOAKED on my run last night. Literally dripped all over the floor when I got home. It wasn't raining when I left the house, but less than a mile in I felt a couple of splashes. Then it drizzled until I reached about 3 miles - and for the remaining 3 it was torrential. I really must get a running jacket - just had on a long-sleeved technical running top last night which was soaked through in minutes. Bloody weather!!
Ploddingalong, so true about babies all being different. MR, I'm only a titchy 5'1" as well - but Kit was big at 8lb 4oz at birth. He was born on the 75th centile but instantly dropped to 25th which he's been following pretty much exactly, apart from the last couple of times I've had him weighed and he's now in between the 9th and 25th. He only put on 2oz in 3 weeks this time, but whereas in the early days I would have panicked, I now know him well enough to be confident that he's absolutely fine - just moving around a lot more now so probably burning it off, plus he had a "fussy" week where he wasn't that interested in either solids or milk.
Re. Calpol, I never routinely gave it before immunisations. I took it with me just in case, but would only have given it if Kit had seemed poorly afterwards. I think he's only had Calpol about 3 times in total since we've had him, and Medised about the same. But as MM said, it won't do any harm if you do want to give it, as it's just sweet-flavoured paracetamol!
MR, we kept Kit on 6 feeds a day until he was able to get through from the 10:30pm feed until about 5:30-6:00am before waking. Then we found that if we gave him a small feed to get him through until 7am it tended to put him off the 7am feed (this was the one we really needed keep at a set time as had to work around hubby's work routine in the morning, with a view to thinking about me going back too). So that was when we dropped the middle of the night/early morning feed. He then stayed on 5 feeds a day until weaning started. The next one we dropped at that point was the 10:30pm feed, which we gradually cut down until he was only taking about 3oz, at which point it wasn't worth waking him up and he wasn't that interested in feeding anyway. After that we dropped the 11am milk feed once he was taking solids at that time.
In theory what your HV suggests (upping the amount of each feed) makes sense, but Kit would never take a big volume of milk even if offered so cutting out the 10:30pm feed would not have worked for us. His most difficult feed was always the 6:30pm one, just before bed, as he quite often fell asleep after about 2oz and we had to keep waking him up to try to encourage him to take more. In fact, I ended up splitting that feed and giving him 3oz at 5pm, then the other 3oz at 6:15pm after his bath, just to get him to take a reasonable amount to get through to 10:30pm. If Megan feeds really well at about 6:30-7pm you might be able to get away with cutting out the later feed, but then she'll likely keep waking around 2am. She's too little at the moment to go all night - personally I decided it was far preferable to wake Kit and feed him before I went to bed, knowing I then wouldn't have to get up in the night, than allow him to wake me up at some ungodly hour of the morning. I did feel mean sometimes as he was often sound asleep at 10:30pm but it did work for us doing it that way.
Hope this helps - it's hard when everyone is giving you conflicting advice.
MR, I think we dropped the night feed at aboout 12 weeks (can't remember exactly). I think we always tried to give him slightly less at this feed - but we tended to base how much we gave him on what time he woke up. If it was early - 2-3am - we'd give him more but once he started going until 4-4:30 we cut it back a bit otherwise we found he wasn't that hungry for his 7am feed which disrupted the rest of the day. Once he was going to about 5:30am without waking up we started settling him back down with just a dummy - fortunately he weaned himself off his dummy by himself quite naturally but I did worry at the time how we would get him to settle without it. I'd recommend not giving a dummy if you can get away with it - you could try offering Megan some cool boiled water, apparently once they realise they're not getting milk they stop waking up.
And don't feel guilty about not breastfeeding. I did at first but I think it's just because the whole 'breast is best' thing is rammed down your neck by every health professional you encounter. If you're miserable, and baby isn't getting what he/she needs, then how can breast be best? Kit is the picture of health and formula certainly hasn't done him any harm whatsoever. I was formula fed and am one of the healthiest people I know.
I popped over to ask MM and Hetty another twin related question about sleeping arrangements and funnily enough they have just been discussing it so it kind of answers my question. I was going to ask whether their twins slept together and how? Did you always use a 'big' cot right from the start and put both in it head to head? I always used a moses basket with my others until they grew out of it. My other problem is that I can't really fit a cot in our bedroom so I am not quite sure what to do.
MR, if Megan is being fed at 4am I'd probably try to gradually cut down the amount she has - I think from memory we only allowed Kit 3oz at that time (sorry, for some reason I've always worked in ounces with his formula!) to encourage him to take more at breakfast time. I kept records of all his feeds in the early days (in fact I only stopped writing everything down when I went back to work - how anal is that??) so will have a look if I remember and let you know what we did.
Really get the feeling that Kit isn't overly keen on his milk. The only bottle he's remotely enthusiastic about is the 7am one, and that's probably because he hasn't eaten since 6pm the night before. The other two he'll quite often give up on after 5oz or so. I wonder whether he'll like cow's milk more when I transfer him to that at 1 year.
Talking of milk, how have others of you got your babies to take their milk from a beaker rather than a bottle? Am trying to get Kit to have his 2:30pm milk feed from a cup but although he's very proficient at drinking water from his cup, the minute I put milk in it he won't go near it! Have tried putting milk in a different cup from water but makes no difference - the minute he takes a sip and realises it's not water he won't have it. Maybe I just need to persevere? Interestingly he would never drink water from a bottle so maybe it's an association thing?
Funnily enough after my molar post earlier. We had an hour and a half cry this morning (I phoned hubbie and texted MIL - who came round, when he had settled!) and first thing the tooth was not through and during lunch I felt a little sharp bit through. I gave him calpol but it seemed to do nothing this time.
I never gave James calpol before injections but he always got some later on in the day as he became quite tetchy and his legs would swell up. I guess I should be booking him in for the MMR soon.
MMR nasty injection Plodding along, really seemed to hurt them actually being injected. They were fine after though. Nurse said we may notice side effects after 7-10 days though.
MR we did the same as Minks and I breast fed with a bottle before bedtime at 6.30-7pm. We did the same, they had breast feed at 7am, 10.30-11am, 2.30pm, bottle at 6.30-7, expressed milk at 10.30pm. Then we waited for them to wake, usually around 2am, this gradually stretched out and went by the time they were 12 weeks. Sometimes had to feed at 5am, but did as Minks, small feed then top up. Dropped 10.30pm feed at 6 months when weaning, got them down to 3oz then it went. Next feed that went was mid morning, which turned into lunch around 6.5-7 months. Have just dropped afternoon milk, so they now have morning and bed cow's milk. They were having 7-8 oz of formula at bed, and when I expressed I was getting about the same from each boob. I think I remember about 8 weeks they were having 5-6oz for bed bottle and 5-6oz of my milk at dream feed. Hope that helps.
Lotte. Yes slept in cot bed as soon as we got home, initially horizontally, as my two were only 4.5lbs, then feet to foot of each end of cot until their heads met in the middle. They lasted two nights in our room as couldn't bear three boys snoring!!!!
My, lots to catch up on today! SB - good plan about the pump by the bed. I must remember to do that. I'm usually pretty organised before bed, but sometimes I'm so desperate to go to sleep some jobs get left until morning - like assembling the pump! Wasn't so bad this morning as he woke at 5.30 for a feed.
The 'feeding question' is such a big one. I get really confused by all the conflicting advice out there as to how much to give, when to give it... At the moment I am trying to get JP to go longer between feeds by getting him to take more at once instead of snacking like a newborn! It has been really hard to get out and about as much as I'd like, because he has only been going a maximum of two hours between feeds (nightmare) and I can't go anywhere without an emergency bottle. And it's worse after a breastfeed, which got me thinking that my supply must be low. So as an experiment I expressed milk all one day instead of giving it straight to him, and found that I was only producing 4oz max every 4 hours. So there was no wonder he needed a top-up halfway through. Now I'm giving him his formula straightaway after his breastfeed (about 3oz), so it works out that he's having about 7oz per feed, which is about right for his size. And it seems to be working as he's gone 3-4 hours between feeds for the last 2 days. I'm a bit happier with this than how it was before, but I'm still not that comfortable with the breastfeeding. Sometimes it's a real struggle to feed him, as he's really strong and heavy, and I get a sore back and arms!! I'm going to keep at it for a while yet, but I do feel like it's a bit of a burden. To be honest, I'm only carrying on because I feel guilty about not doing it, and I just think that as long as there's a bit of milk there I'll give it to him. But it's hard! Sorry to moan, it really does give me brainache though...
Hetty - I also have hobbit feet! I'm a size 8 (sometimes a 7 if I'm lucky), which is mainly due to my freaky long toes. Think I'd only be a size 5 if I had normal ones!
Tatty I am reliably informed that the babies can get alot more milk by sucking than we can pump... I have only ever been able to get about 7 oz from both boobs when expressing so checked it out with my HV. Mine have never been able to go longer than 2 - 3 hours after a breast feed either. Also, i found I had to top up more and more as the babies got bigger, especially in the eve so introduced a bottle at lunchtime ( they have always had them in the eve), found this easier than topping up at every feed and gives me freedom to get out and about as I can bottles feed both alone and at the same time with bottles. Doing this means I am "full" again at 4 pm for a breast feed. It has taken all the stress out of feeding and the babies have the best of both! Now they have
7 30 breast
10 30 breast
6 30 bottle
11 bottle or breast if I am up (if ot I express before bed), plus breast in the night if they wake.
Do what suits you and JP, dont feel guilty, he will be happy however he gets his grub (easier said than done I know!)
My Hv said to go for it and start solids as it sounds like they need it, she said its not necessary to wait and just to take it very slowly and stick to baby rice, root veg, fruit etc until 6 months. Her opinion was that although 6 months is what is officially advised all babies are different and they will soon let you know if they are not ready. Will try a bit of rice at the weekend and see how they go. Think my HV is a bit old school as she implied that most babies needed food before 6 months so the advice to wait til then was unrealistic!
Lotte - we had ours in thier pram carrycot (I got an old twin silvercross) in our room for a month or so then put them in a cot together in thier room, we all slept better when we did this! We had them both at one end initially as they snuggled up together, now head to head. Thinking about putting the other cot up soon.
I weaned mine at 5.5 months hetty, I waited two weeks then sopke to HV, with J waking at night, and wanting more and more milk and chewing everything in sight. Harry wasn't ready, but interestingly I think he would have slept through from 5 months if we'd dropped the 10.30 feed, but J wouldn't have he was too hungry. I did wean them together though, and did a good week of just baby rice before introducing carrots. I waited till they were 6.5/7 months before giving any meat protein, but gave them some yoghurt around 6 months. It did have an instant effect though, J slept through again the first night he had the rice! Hetty if it helps I used one bowl and one spoon and still do, except now trying to teach them to feed themselves, and they have finger food for tea most days. Much quicker, as you can spoon into second baby while first is swallowing.
Think I was very lucky with my milk. I was able to sustain them with only one bottle feed extra. I remember the midwife telling me in the hospital while I was waiting for the super duper pump, as boys had tube to start with, that all I needed was a bicycle pump! She managed to find me some old contraption in the cupboard which worked as well for me as the new expensive one! Downsides were I used to leak a lot, which did settle down, but goodness was annoying. Some days I had to wear those plastic cup things in my bra!!! Sorry if a bit grim! My two were guzzlers though and sicky babies, not reflux but mainly from being pigs I think. They still are, and eat everything in sight (just like me and their Dad I guess). I know something is up if they go off their food.
I had some very positive people whi really commended the fact I was breast feeding twins at all, and some others like the nurse at the local practice, who told me I really should be exclusively breast feeding until at least 6 months. I was a bit annoyed and did actually ask if she had any idea who hard it was to breast feed twins at all. The amount of energy it consumes is immense. I worked it out to be the equivalent of a 10 mile run every day in calories. And I was trying to run and look after them on top of that. Hence why I stopped at 5.5 months. I have more energy to run now, but still feel exhausted most of the time. Currently they both want to walk everywhere holding my hand ( not walking yet by themselves). Then we get strops if I only walk with one of them, real paddies (bit worrying!). Just to warn you Hetty, this stage is pretty demanding. Desperate for them to walk now. Have tried to walk with both each holding one hand, but they then walk in circles so ends up in disaster!!
Sorry massive post!
LOL, MM - Kit's exactly the same with eating everything in sight! My in-laws couldn't believe how well he eats when they saw him last weekend. But we're not surprised at all: hubby and I both have gargantuan appetites so any child of ours is likely to be a guzzler too! I made spaghetti bolognese for hubby and I last night and removed a portion for Kit before I added the stock cube and wine to ours. Made it a bit smoother in the blender and it's now in the freezer ready for the weekend. Am quite excited and hoping he'll like it, as it will be the first time he's properly had the same food as us. He seems to love his food but I can't say the same for his milk. His interest in his bottles is lukewarm at best, unless he's really starving when he'll have anything within a 5-mile radius of his mouth.
Got home last night and hubby was giving him a banana which he'd cut into slices. It was just too slippery: every time Kit picked a piece up, it slipped through his fingers and on to his lap! In the end we gave him a whole half banana and he just bit chunks out of it: much easier!
Just to repeat a question I asked a few posts ago but which seems to have disappeared into the ether, can anyone give any tips on how to wean from bottle to cup? Kit happily takes water from a Tommee Tippee cup with a spout (not one of the spouts they have to chew on, just a normal free-flowing spout with 2 holes) but point-blank refuses to have milk from it. I've tried buying the same cup in a different colour so he doesn't associate it with water, but that hasn't worked at all. Interestingly he woould never take water from a bottle but is fine with it in a cup. Should I not worry about it and just keep giving him his milk from a bottle? Or persevere with the cup? My only concern is that he's not that interested in milk/his bottles and if I give him milk in a cup he'll probably take even less. What have others of you done?
Flippin' 'eck, I was absent for just one day and away you go!
Sequin - that's lovely news, you must be so happy. Well done. I look forward to hearing all about it when you find the time. And what a lovely name.
Oh dear, I might just give up on those sachets of teething powder: there I was trying to tip half the powder into Hector's mouth and he swiped it with his hand...right into his eyes. Poor thing looked so shocked and then I had to try and get it out. Tsk. He's decidedly fed up today, putting his finger along his gums, grinding his gums together and looking well and truly cheesed off At least he's fallen asleep now, so he can have some relief.
Hmmmm, I'm wondering what will happen for me in the chest area. I was a curvy 34B/C before and often had admiring glances - ahem - but I'm up to a humungous 38D now so we'll see! Thing with the big bossom is that it kind of makes you look bigger everywhere else, I feel well frumpy!
I think we probably will get a door bouncer thingie. Every mum you mention them to says 'my baby loves it' and I'm sure Hector would enjoy burning off some of his energy. It gives you another thing to entertain them with as well.
Off for a swim in a bit
Does sound like a demanding stage MM, must make the most of them being unable to move far!! Good to have your support, I must admit most people have been very supportive of me feeding them. I find what I am doing now fine so hope to continue until christmas at least (evil bit of me thinks it may be good to stop before so i can enjoy a bit of over indulgence!!). I am going to try to wean both together but have the feeling M is not ready....now its her I think would sleep through given half a chance!
Good to hear that people have used giving water in the night with success, will try that if the rice has no effect... Hv suggested it yesturday but will get the hunger under control first. E didnt even make it til her 11pm feed last night, woke at 10 15, had all 7 oz and some breast before she was satisfied!
My man has got man flu too! Thank god I have girls
Thanks for that Hetty - it's good to know that these things work out. And I have to express the utmost admiration for you and MM for b/feeding twins. Hard work indeed. How did you do it - did you feed both babies at once or one after the other??? I have always wondered!
Well, the feeding plan worked wonders yesterday, and so far today. He had 5 feeds yesterday (roughly GF timings) and slept through until 6.45 this morning. Feel so much more positive about things now that I know that we can get some kind of structure to our day instead of faffing about with feeding all day long!
Went for my counselling at the hospital today. It was really helpful, and also reassuring, as I've been told that it will be entirely my choice as to what I do next time. I'm going to have consultant-led care from the start and regular growth scans to monitor the size of the baby, and then if it's another huge beastie, I'll either have an elective C-section or be induced at 41 wks (I'm almost certain to go overdue again!). And if I am induced, I'm going to have an epidural from the very start. One conclusion I have come to is that I'm not going to worry about birth plans again - that was part of the problem because it was so different to how I had anticipated in my earth mother fantasies! I think you can have preferences for birth but need to stay flexible. It may be that I can deliver naturally and spontaneously, and if so, then that's all well and good, but I'm not going to beat myself up if it doesn't happen.
MR - still use treadmill, and would recommend the I-Run. It's very smooth and doesn't take up much space. I keep it unfolded because it's a bit of a pain to be folding it up all the time (and it's pretty heavy!), but it's in the corner in the dining room and isn't in the way at all. It's really handy if I get an urge to run when Ben's at work and JP is sleeping or otherwise occupied because I can see what he's doing and hop off if needs be. Managed a good brisk 3 miles outside last night in the cold - most refreshing!! Probably use treadmill about 3 times a week at the moment.
Ooh, yuck! Hope you feel better soon MR.
I ache tonight - did 6 miles with club. Perhaps this was a tad adventurous, but it felt good to do a longer run! Going now to eat yet again - I don't think my metabolism knows quite what to do!!!
Have a good weekend everyone xx