DISCO Assessment

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  • I'm relieved that with Mrs its pinball. Couldn't get a routemaster in the kitchen :-))

    Yes Minty I know what you mean.

    Mrs FR was befriended by a novice Nun when she was a girl. When we were married she gave me a card with the Biblical text about the man who sold everything he had to buy the pearl of great value. I've always thought that said it all really...
  • I think you sound absolutely smashing FR and Mrs FR couldn't have been luckier. She sounds amazing too.

    I agree Lurker, if I'd known then what I know now, I might have understood Mr Mint's difficulties a little better. I was never intolerant of him but I didn't understand. He used to kick off and create arguments. I used to think he'd done it for no reason but now I can see that it was usually because we were about to do something (usually social) and he was probably anxious. A row would often mean that we didn't go or I would go without him. Having built a few bridges recently I've been able to chat about it to his new wife and he still does it.

    Little Mint does the same if we're going to do something that makes him anxious. When we were sent to see a psychologist, he created a huge argument on the way there. We arrived feeling stressed and tearful and she concluded that it was 'single mother syndrome' - i.e. that I allow him far too much control, he thinks he's the man of the house and our relationship has become confused as a result - hence family therapy. Fortunately when we arrived with the family therapist we were calm and grounded and she failed to see why we'd been sent to her.

    Gosh, if it's so confusing for us living with it every day, I suppose it's understandable why it's confusing for the professionals.

    Mr Mint was an amazing mimic and could make the sounds of the bus engines. In fact, as a kid, when a bus went past his house, he would know by the sound of the engine, which bus it was and could reel off its registration number. I thought he was amazing. He also knew the employee number of every tube train driver based at Morden (where he worked). I tested him on it once and sure enough ...

    I've recently noticed Little Mint trying to mimic engine sounds in a very similar way to his Dad (he can already do incredible impersonations of people). He isn't obsessed with buses though. Yet!
  • I bought Tony Attwood's book today. Aspergers, a Guide for Parents and Professionals (1998). Very interesting but wait til you hear this.

    "Another child had a special interest in buses. Before a vehicle was in sight, he could identify the make of the engine. However, he also perceived the unique sounds for the engine of each bus covering that part of the city. Thus, he could identify the number plate of the imminent but invisible bus."

    Now that's scary!!! That could be describing Mr Mint except he was hearing the buses from inside his house as they passed by.

    I just told Little Mint about his father's talent and he was suitably unimpressed but reckoned he should have been able to do that by 11 or 12 (I've no idea but note Little Mint is 11). I commented that I noticed he'd started to immitate engine sounds recently and he duly gave me a demonstration and said "is that what you mean?" Yes dear. LOL

    I highly recommend the book to anyone wishing to know more or to explore strategies for getting by.
  • This DISCO assessment is in response to complete meltdown between the school and Little Mint. When the school complained to me I tried to assist in getting things sorted out. I tried to help by giving him clear instructions regarding expectations for school but asked them to help by checking the way they deal with him - I asked if they give him time out, to give some positivity to his day (it's a very negative school) and to allow him to sit away from the other children so that he can't be distracted and can't distract. I thought this is what 'grown ups' are meant to do.

    There was one teacher he perceived was bullying him and this, I felt, was the key to the bad behaviour. I tried to speak to her and she made him sound like a complete animal and said she feels she can't sneeze without me coming in to complain!! I hasten to add - I have NEVER complained. I have only tried to sort out his genuine (ref ed psych's report - which btw the head has chosen not to share with the rest of the staff) unhappiness at school. What am I supposed to do? Sit and wait for him to commit suicide?

    Things did settle down when he was moved to sit separately (at his own request) but apparently he was a bit silly today (I've been told by Parent Partnership that it's unreasonable to expect perfect behaviour all the time) and so he got sent to the reception class to sit with the infants. I don't have any difficulty with them taking this measure but what has really upset me is that he says they've 'given up' on him.

    He's only got a few weeks to go and I would never have believed these last weeks could be so difficult. I could cry.
  • minty
    i have already read the book
    hence my comment above

    :-)
  • fingers crossed that senior schol wil be better
    it's incredible that teachers still behave like that



    i was all set for fights and arguments at boy1's school because of the way my friend in surrey had had to fight for everything - but it has not been like that
    i think they could have pushed him a bit more academically but socially i could not have asked for more


    move to birmingham minty
    it's a good set up here

  • I so hope senior school will be better. I've got an appointment with them next week to talk things through. I do feel very sad about the primary school business. We live in a small village and I feel both blamed and labelled as a pushy moaning single mother who can't control her son's behaviour. His behaviour was fine until a teacher told him he was a waste of time.

    I moved here to try and improve our lot. In the main, things have been great. It's just the school that's been a thorn in my side and in five weeks time I might grant Little Mint's wish to burn his uniform on a bonfire as some sort of ritualistic fingers up.

    It's good to hear that things aren't bad everywhere Lurker. I have a friend in Leicestershire. Her son has quite pronounced Aspergers syndrome (I would say a lot more obvious than Little Mint) and she has a diagnosis but Leicestershire don't give statements because they haven't got any funding! I think that's outrageous!
  • Minty - I'm afraid statements are becoming more and more a thing of the past because of the change in how SEN is funded.

    Each school should have in their budget enough money to fund an SEN child 15hours of support a week before they need to either get a statement or go cap in hand to the local authority. That's the theory. Whether that happens in practice or not I don't know. I think this is the death knell for statements, unfortunately! Luckily, No.2 Little CC got a statement just before this new funding happened. (He has ADHD/ODD poss Aspergers traits). No. 1 Little CC has Aspergers Syndrome but gets no support because academically he is doing fine if not above average.

    Let's hope your senior school is a better set up for Little Mint. No. 1 Little CC goes to secondary school in September too so waiting to see what happens.

    Thinking of you and Little Mint. (((((Minty)))))
  • That's interesting CC. I don't yet know what assessment will bring next week. Hopefully a diagnosis so that I can stop wondering whether it's me at fault. But what you say about funding - how do we know which children are SEN without statements? Schools don't seem to take anything on board without them.

    I would say, if Little Mint does have Aspergers, he would probably fall into the same category of No 1 CC. He should certainly get level 5 in most, if not all, of his SATS exams. If he doesn't then he hasn't progressed since Year 2. He was re-tested at the beginning of year 3 and got all level 4s. I don't understand why things have gone so badly wrong for him at school in the last few weeks. It does seem to coincide with his complaint that he was told he is a waste of time.

    I had a telephone conversation with the assistant head of his new school and she confirmed that a statement would be required to give the requisite funding for the support needed. He needs support in terms of socialisation and sensory processing difficulties. He could also do with being allowed to produce his work using a keyboard as he is extremely reluctant to write (he says it hurts). I wouldn't say he needs learning support but the last few weeks have shown that he would benefit from being away from groups as he is better able to concentrate. If he could have his wish he would have individual tuition. I can't imagine that will happen for him unless I home educate him - which I can't do because I have to work. With a statement though, he could join his new school's 'bridge unit' for autistic children. It sounds fantastic but I don't think they'll be able to put him in there without some funding.
  • Creamy, what's ODD? I know OCD but not ODD - or was it a typo?
  • ODD = Oppositional Defiant Disorder ie deliberately doing something either told not to or knows that he shouldn't do that could be detrimental to his or someone else's safety. More than a normal child is.

    Hopefully this DISCO assessment will be enough for statementing to go ahead. What does the ed psych say about it? Children have to meet certain criteria before statementing starts. No. 2 Little CC got it at 2nd attempt. The school cocked it up the first time.

    No. 1 Little CC got level 5 in his mocks but thinks he messed up the first day's exams (science) because he was so stressed out and nervous. What didn't help was the teacher went through the 1st paper after they'd done it!

    Anyway, do you have a local carers' centre that can give you support and make suggestions too? We have one and it is great. They help you with filling in benefits forms and advising you on benefits you may be entitled to. They also have details of support groups.
  • I should have said that ODD often goes hand-in-hand with ADHD. As can Aspergers, dyspraxia, dyslexia, bipolar disorder, depression...
  • minty - boy1 does not nor has he ever had a statement
    but
    he has always been included in the groups which are run to help the kids who do have statements
    gross motor skills and social skills stuff usually
    he is actually on the "friendship" team for the lad in their class who has much more obvious Aspergers than boy1
  • Ed psych's have never been interested in boy1

  • I don't know about any carers' centre. It's only just, finally, being acknowledged that there is a problem. Up until now (the past 11 years) it's been perceived that only I think something is wrong and therefore I'm the one with the problem.

    I didn't see the ed psych's report as being anything more than everything I've always said (bearing in mind I was reading it as a lay person) but the family therapist said it quite clearly states that there is a neuro development difficulty. Now we need to pinpoint what that is. The Ed Psych identified that he's extremely unhappy and suggests he would benefit from an individual approach. He didn't give any strategies for moving forward though.

    I've been in touch with Parent Partnership and have been invited to an autism support group. I find the thought of going to one slightly alarming but I think that's just me having difficulty coming round to the idea.
  • That's encouraging to hear Lurker. Does he benefit from those groups.

    How does he feel about having Aspergers? I've been trying to be open and honest with Little Mint about my thoughts. I sat and read a book to him which was written for parents to assist with telling children. It listed various problems an Aspergers child might face and I read these out to him. He sat there saying "not me" to each thing. Eventually something obviously rang true because then he said "you're lying, it doesn't say that".

    One of his friends at school has an older brother with very obvious Aspergers. He doesn't want to be perceived as being like him. However, I spoke to his mother (for some support) and she told me that she also thinks the younger boy has mild Aspergers. Since I shared this with Little Mint, he's been a bit more open to the possibility - because the other boy is more in line with his idea of 'normal'. Normal is what he longs to be.
  • it is difficult to talk about
    boy1 knows that he is different
    but he is not VERY different, but i think that is partly because of the early diagnosis

    i tell him it's because sometimes he hs difficulty understanding what people mean and certain situations. He seems to accept this. he does not percieve himself to be like the people who "talk like robots"

    but it is difficult - getting him to speech therapy was one thing - he knew he couldn't say "k" and when he was older he knew he had a mild stutter and still has, but when it's a social thing it's difficult.

    i have to get him on his own and give it to him straight sometimes. He knows he has Aspergers ad dyspraxia - he is a lot more comfortable telling people he has Dyspraxia, if it is required
    but he is also happy with the alert card i have got for hi from west mids autism society (or whatever they are called) mrs FR has one too,littleminty could do with one for when he goes to senior school
    it's just in case he gets into a situation where the law or any authority pigures are involved
    it is a little card that says he has ASd and may not respond in the way one might expect someoen to respond i a stressful situation

  • yes he benefited from the groups
    and
    it is good for his self esteem because he is able to help others


  • I've heard you mention the card before Lurker and I will certainly get him one if I can because he certainly does behave in is own way when he's stressed and it can be quite difficult. I assume I'll need the diagnosis before I can get the card.

    I'm glad he benefitted from the groups. That gives me hope.
  • should read 'in his own way' not 'in is own way'. Tut! Dropping my aitches! My mother would eat me for breakfast!
  • A dyspraxic friend learnt Pascal (a programming language) just so he could write a computer programme to record his train-spotting activites. He's very useful at times :)

    Minty: He could also do with being allowed to produce his work using a keyboard as he is extremely reluctant to write (he says it hurts).
    I remember going through much the same thing - but I really would try to persevere with handwriting 'till GCSEs (or reasonably fast & legible) - it's one of the things you really do just have to learn, however annoying, because it's so often necessary to function. Is annoying though, and I haven't handwritten anything academic since 6th form - but can't get round needing to write sometimes.
  • Minty - I wonder if you could get little-mint to groups for children like him - wonder if it'd be worth asking the NAS if there's anything in your area? It might help him to see that he's not actually an 'alien' & might even find it easier to relate to not-quite-NTs than NT peers?
  • My only concern DG is that if their autism is more pronounced than his, he gets upset because he thinks I'm saying he's like they are. Not that there's anything wrong with being like them but when he's desperately trying to fit in, I do wonder just how much he can accept and I want him to realise that I'm just trying to get him the support he needs without him feeling that I think he's 'mental' - which is what he has said.

    He is slowly coming around to a better idea of Aspergers and autism. I guess he's at the stage I was a couple of years ago when somebody suggested to me that he might have Aspergers and I told them that if he had, I'd rather not know about it. That was born out of fear and lack of understanding about what Aspergers is. Now that I've researched it, I can live with it. Little Mint needs to go on the same journey.
  • You can buy the cards from the NAS I believe.

    Mrs FR finds it useful for dealing with people like the Police. It also prevents paramedics from giving her innapropriate medication if she has a meltdown and I'm not there.

    I think self help groups are OK as long as the people getting something out of it are the people who are supposed to. I've been to adolescent self help groups with Mrs (to talk about stuff like higher education, and working)that have turned out to be a talking shop for the carers with the Aspies all sitting around texting each other complaining about how embarrassing it all is.

  • Minty - you will have mail...

    I have been busy!
  • Thanks SLAW. I will reply but probably not tonight as I'm really tired. I've only just got in from teaching (last lesson - had to end in the pub of course!)

    FR - you managed to put it so much better. That's what I meant. Little Mint has had to sit and listen to me explaining my concerns to professionals over and over again. It can't be good for him to hear and there are so many fantastic things about him but of course it's not the good stuff I'm seeking help for.
  • Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggh!

    1. Child was v. unhappy at school - evidence Ed Psych's report (but what Mum always knew anyway).

    2. Teacher called child a waste of time.

    3. Child's behaviour spiralled out of control.

    4. Mum discovered ed psych had failed to share his findings with school and so Mum sent in report and shared concerns about unhappiness and linked recent bad behaviour with the trigger event of teacher calling child waste of time.

    5. Head teacher asked if Mum wanted to make a formal complaint. Mum said 'no - let's behave like grown ups and sort it out ourselves, surely that is what is best for child'.

    6. Head teacher does nothing. Tells staff that child is unhappy at school but doesn't bother to share ed psych's report with school.

    7. Mum decides to have a chat with teacher herself. Teacher hits roof and says she doesn't understand why child hasn't been excluded and implies that child is bullying her rather than vice versa. Mum manages to calm conversation down, explains that she understands it must be difficult to teach him and that she is only trying to help. Teacher says she feels she can't sneeze without Mum complaining. Mum reiterates that she hasn't complained but is merely trying to talk things through before there becomes a need to complain. Explains that other governor has witnessed negative treatment of child.

    8. Other governor complains to Mum that teacher 'had a go' at her child so she realised Mum had used her name to back up what she was saying.

    9. Teacher decides the best all round approach is to behave as though child no longer exists. Ignores him completely. Clever! Really good teaching strategy.

    10. Child goes out of control again. Standing on chairs, singing national anthem, waving arms around, shouting uncontrollably. Teachers do nothing. Mum arrives to pick up child to find this state of affairs with all other children laughing, pointing and saying that Little Mint has gone mental.

    Would you send your child to that school? He NEVER misbehaved until she called him a waste of time. She has viewed all efforts on my part to sort things out as 'complaining'.

    My view now is that I don't think he should go to school on the days she teaches him. Her attitude is unbelievable and if she can't behave in a grown up manner I don't see how anyone can expect him to.

    I asked Little Mint why he did that and he said 'because everyone's just ignoring me - I put my hand up to answer questions and I get ignored - if I ask a question I get a straight 'yes' or 'no' without any explanation.

    That's not schooling!

    I've managed to sort things with the other teacher. We've discussed what works and what doesn't and he's calmed down and is behaving for her and she is trying to meet his needs as best she can in the circumstances. Everyone was happy.

    This other teacher is just stamping her feet and saying if he and I won't dance to her tune she'll pretend we don't exist. In that case, there's no point in him being there.
  • Minty, I'm so sorry to read this. Take some deep breaths and remember you are doing an incredibly difficult job in awful circumstances. From what you have said the new school sounds much more responsive, hang on in their and lets hope some good comes of next weeks assessment.

    C
    xx
  • Minty - have you tried speaking to the Ed Psych again directly and explaining what is going on? Is the headteacher also SENCO at the primary school? Can Parent Partnership at the LEA give you any further help and support and maybe come to the school with you for meetings? As a last resort, and all contact with school on this issue isn't being fruitful and the governors aren't being any help, you may need to go above their heads to the Education Officer or the Inclusion Officer. This teacher sounds terrible - a bully. Especially if she had a go at a governor's child because you'd mentioned the governor's name in a conversation. I think you may also wish to consider a formal complaint again the teacher and possible the headteacher if they aren't doing their job properly.

    Sorry thinking on the hoof so to speak. Really sorry Little Mint's last few weeks at primary school are being marred by a teacher.

    (((((Minty))))) and (((((Little Mint)))))

    At least the new school seem more approachable. Not much consolation I know...
  • Thanks Creamy. Everything is further complicated because I'm Chair of Governors. I have spoken to Parent Partnership and they've been lovely. I will call them again tomorrow.

    I really don't want to have to make a formal complaint because it compromises my position as CofG (although, that's not to say I won't fight for my son - I certainly will - even if it does mean stepping down as CofG).

    The Head Teacher is the SENCO and I'm also the SENCO governor. I heard recently about a mother who withdrew her son because (and I hasten to add this is hearsay) the head told her there's no such thing as dyslexia and he was just thick. She removed him and he's now getting on really well at another school with a lap top. And he is now diagnosed dyslexic.

    I'm not prepared to send Little Mint to school on the days that she teaches until she wakes up and smells the coffee and acknowledges some responsibility for his behaviour. With kids like him, you've just got to keep trying until you find what works.

    When he was at school in London, I'd go in and they'd sing his praises. At first I used to check they were speaking about the right child because I was having such problems at home.

    It's just this one teacher who is so negative towards him and for her he's being a complete pain. Both of them need to change but she obviously thinks only he needs to change. It's like dealing with two children instead of one.

    I'm really at a loss as to what I should do.

    I did speak to the Ed Psych directly tonight. He was shocked at what is going on but couldn't offer any useful suggestions.
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