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friday16th november 2007
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it may be better to err on ths side of caution.
Sorry! My Browser has gone mad!
Evening all,
Intresting the topic regarding `steady state` running. Ive had many people say I do my steady runs far too quickly and my coach say I dont run them hard enough, now looking at the kind of pace already posted on the thread, more so with thread members who I would reasonably expect to give a good race too over a 10k distance, im not actually that far wrong!
Generally (thats when not crippled with injury) my steady runs are done between 6:30-7:00 pace. Easy runs usually between 7:10-8mm pace which is what I would normally do my Long runs at, then recovery runs, anything slower.
Good run had this afternoon,
5-miles in 37mins so quiet encouraging and noticed on a few occastions my right leg kicking out a fair bit towards end of run, which maybe a glimour of a good sign regarding my gammy right knee, we shall see.
No running tommorow, but then another 5-miler on sunday, will be intresting to see if that kick out continues or is improved!
Greetings all,
Ref the mara pace, I have always been lead to believe that it should be MP + 1m, so for me aiming (seems eternally) for 3:30 would be 8mm + 1m making it 9mm, a pace which I tend to aim for when doing my easy runs and long runs despite fining it very hard to run at that pace, I seem to fall in around 8:30 - 8:45...... bizarlly my HM time is 1:300:xx set in 2005, but cannot convert to mara despite numerous attempt, best yet 3:33:xx in 2006.
After all that - no running today but 50 mins on the cross trainer at level 12 random profile.
Now the fun starts as in 2 hours will have a house full of teenage girls for daughter birthday sleepover.... and whats worse is wife is going out to a party... HHHEEELLLLPPPP........
Clink
No races planned I was just building a fab base for next year first target race Last Sunday in January all going to blimming well.
My shins sore this week no reason for it just the one leg and very similar to janauary so looks like I will have to back off from training and even(Horror) rest them stretch,compression socks on ice and Ibeleve gel on legs
Just as I was contemplating maybe run a M. Next year!!
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
I tend to run by feel and to tell the truth never really mind what pace I'm running in between specific sessions as long as they're not too hard that I can't do my next session.
This is what Mcmillan reckons I should train at given my marathon pb. However, I'm not quite in that shape at present. To tell the truth I don't think at times I could train at the paces suggested as so much needs to be taken into account.
Endurance WorkoutsPace/MilePace/KRecovery Jogs8:13 to 8:435:07 to 5:26Long Runs7:13 to 8:134:30 to 5:07Easy Runs7:13 to 7:434:30 to 4:49Stamina WorkoutsPace/MilePace/KSteady-State Runs 6:23 to 6:343:58 to 4:05Tempo Runs 6:07 to 6:233:48 to 3:58Tempo Intervals 6:02 to 6:143:45 to 3:52Time/IntervalCruise Intervals(mile)5:59 to 6:07(1200m)4:28 to 4:33(1000m)3:43 to 3:48(800m)2:58 to 3:02(600m)2:14 to 2:17(400m)1:29 to 1:31
Evening What a busy day
Lyrics i believe i know these, makes a change.
When i got in at 4:30am this morning i did contemplate starting the thread but the only thing i could come up with was something to do with it being cold and frosty which resulted in some christmas lyrics - far too early for that. Definitely needed the de-icer on the car the frost was rock solid.
Poppy hope the shin behaves itself. Take care
Steady runs for me are every run at the moment all my runs i try and keep and usually do under 70% whr normallt 67% on average depending how body reacts. This equals to about 10:10-10:15 on a good day on a very bad day like last week it was nearer 11 minutes normally averages out around 10:30 - 10:40.
Yes a lot of slow miles makes you just run slow miles if thats all you do as you need to adapt. Reintroduction of strides next week another 3 weeks and it will be back tempo running and long intervals
Today
What: 6 miles Steady
Why: Its in the plan
Last Hard: Sunday
The problem I have with pace based training advice like McMillan and P+D is that it does not take into account external and internal factors affecting the run. Neither oracle suggests altering pace if hot (or if they do I can't find it), altering pace if you'd had a bad day at work, or at home, altering the pace if your route contains hills. Are the paces stipulated based on an ideal flat course on a cool windless day? I can't find if they are.
Similarly, when `plugging' times into McMillan, which time should one choose. Unless one has a very good relationship across all distances the advised pace would vary considerably. If I put my best recent 10k in my long runs should be 6.31 to 7.31m/m. If I put my best marathon time of 2007 I am told to run them at 7.00 to 8.00. Now Mr Mcmillan does not know if I happen to have lots of FT fibres that can see me rattle off a good 10k and therefore need plenty of slower running to bring the marathon time in line, or whether that performance was a freak one. If it was a freak one, how much of a freak one.
The point of all that rambling is that there are too many questions and variables affecting running to a set pace, whereas running to a HR will factor these things in.
Steady runs, for me, run the risk of being the nearest thing I can think to `junk' miles, in that they can be run too slow to produce the specific training adaptations you are looking at for your goal race, whilst being too fast to leave you fresh enough for the key sessions of the week (or coming too soon after the key session to allow your body to properly absorb the session).
Kenobi, can you state examples of runners whose `long slow running' has made them into long slow runners? You may not reach your peak running like this but I know of quite a few runners who have hit times many would consider excellent just off a base of long slow miles (slow relative to their race pace).
Kenobi (2) - if you want to enter Paris I'd get in quick - only a couple of thousand places left today and I think they'll get snapped up `tout de suite' once FLM rejections come out.
Evening all,
Despite having a couple of HRM's I still do my running by feel. Recovery pace tends to vary from 8:00 to 7:30 pace. Easy & Long runs around about 7:30 pace. Steady runs 6:50 to 7:10 pace. A lot depends on the terrain and conditions. I do sometimes use the HRM to check how accurate my "feel" is.
When I was in Paris last month on my honeymoon I said to my wife, "This is a beautiful place. Do you fancy coming back here early April?" Her immediate response was, "Is there a marathon on that weekend?"...no Paris marathon for me in 2008. Not doing FLM either so am currently considering Lochaber or an autumn one instead.
Today:
What: 5 miles easy
Why: Felt tired after round of golf and want to do a steady 14 miles tomorrow.
NN- Normally it starts at 8pm, but now it starts at 10pm. Short shifts i know
NN - what is the relevance behind the statement re. your FV50 clubmate? Who is to say she might not have run 1.28 with a HRM programme? She may well not have but your assertion does not prove anything, beyond that it is possible for a FV50 to run a 1.30 HM without a HRM or watch.
I ran a 73 min HM after HR training and a 75 min one (on the same course) off non-HR training. Again this does not prove that using a HRM must be better all the time, just that for that particular training block it worked for me.
Re. the stressful day scenario - does the range of pace Mcmillan suggests take that into account - ie you would run at the slower end? By how much slower etc etc?
Surely it DOES mean you are naturally a faster runner ?..my mate to be honest runs very girly..arms and legs all over the place....hardly looks like she is putting in any effort...but she says she always feels really sick at the end of a race...
NN and Pammie thank you
I dont run off road as not enough of it for my training but may try beach running have acres of that to train on thanks for thoughts
I think in my limited experience what suits one runner will not suit another it is a matter of finding what suits you as a runner or what makes you happy.
Some runners will get fantastic results on 40 miles a week whilst others will get the results on 3 times that amount of running.
Just look at the Daily Training Thread here the training ranges from one end of the scale to the other
Same goes for watch, HRM GPS or nothing just running on feel.
For me personally I am not a good runner just one that trys to train as well as she is able or her body allows her! I like miles the more miles the better I i guess I am old school)and HRM for me works wonders.
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
Let's take tomorrow's session as an example. To rediscover my aerobic threshold I need to run a session at just slower than marathon pace. My estimate is that this will be at around 6.15m/m. However, I don't know that for sure. Dublin is not a good guide for me (6.51 pace) and for all I know I could be carrying a slight virus, which may not be noticeable to me at all, but would effect my heart rate.
Now I could go and run 7 miles at 6.15 pace probably with no watch or HRM as I have pretty good sense of pace, but if I were carrying a virus then the effort it would take to do this would be closer to, or even at marathon HR. This would then mean I'm not getting what I to out of the session. However if I run it with a HRM, then it will allow me to make the necessary adjustments to my pace should I be carrying a bug. I would be still putting in the right effort, albeit at a slightly slower pace. What the HRM would stop me doing would be running the session too hard, and therefore risking further illness.
As Scobos says, we wheel this one out every 6 months or so but I do so enjoy it
I know it would not suit many runners on here and is not the be all and end all of running. It is ONE way of building an excellent aerobic pace.
This type of talk always makes me smile. And like Poppy most of us if not all of us have been running long enough to know what works for us and more importantly what doesn't. So its probably important that we use what does work for us.
I know i would probably have to run more than 40mpw for it to show dividents if i did do less it would probably involve a lot of quality work which i do enjoy at appropriate times but not all the time and i do enjoy getting out there and running for 1-2 hours at a time.
That is me though, must go now and actually get ready for work luckily that doesn't take me too long
In 2003 I thought I had been running long enough to know what worked for me. I was a 76 min HMer, 33 min 10ker and could say that a couple of bad marathons were down to pace judgement and heat. But only through discussions on here did I find a way that worked better for me beyond what I already knew.
He not busy being born is busy dying.... (extra lyric for today)
It's getting interesting on here and that old chestnut is back out again, as BR said. I'm also a convert to the HRM training. Actually, Holmfirth 15M was the first race where I've actually obeyed what it was showing during a race, but I usually follow it for any other runs.
BR - hope you've seen my message regarding tomorrow's run. I wanted a steady one anyway after a couple of harder sessions this week and an intention of doing 6 runs this week, to reap the benefit for next week's XC then the Shuffle! Done 26M in 4 days this week.
AF - your posts were amusing!
RFJ - heartfelt sympathies, and good luck!
WP, hoping that it all sorts toot suite.
BR and Hilly - enjoy Paris.
Think I'll have to come and lower the tone.
Well, I did get a run in this morning. Definitely junk miles. It felt attrocious, and I gave up after 1.5, and walked the short loop home. Still on hols from a.i, who knows, who cares, a bad run is a bad run, and leave it for another day.
But in another way it was a good outing - the fen was heartachingly beautiful. I was hoarding my resolutionary spirit for tasks that had to be done, and so did not flog these dead muscles into some shambles of a trot.
I tried. It didn't work, I'll try again. Story of my life. Could be worse. It sure was gorgeous out there and I got out.