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Beginner-based marathon advice with Mike Gratton
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Hi Mike
I have read many times that running the LSRs slower than marathon pace will teach you body to better use fat. Is this really necessary these days when we can carry gels and drinks to have enough carbohydrate all the way around? Or do you really need both ?
Owl
Hi Mike
Bear with me with my two questions.... 1st one... I've got suspected tibia posterior tendonitis which is very slowly recovering, with RICE, NSAIDs etc but I'm panicking. My last long run was 17 miles (3 hours steady) which was comfortable (I'd steadily increased 2 miles per week), but the pain had increased. So to make sure I'm ok for the FLM I'm off running and cycling 3 times a week, my physio has advised I keep away from the cross trainer too. Given the last long run was 2 weeks ago, I'm worried about my fitness for the day. I am hoping (seriously fingers crossed) I can do a short run Thursday even if it is a walk-run for a few miles and maybe a longer one on Sunday (say about 8 miles??) and if everything is ok then, then try to do a longer one on the 23rd - perhaps 13 - 14??
I suspect its down to my orthotics. I pronate more on my left than my right (no problems with with my right), although had tight ITBs earlier in the year - then painful knees... That seems to be ok now with physio/massages/exercises. Which leads me onto my second question..... To run with orthotics or not?? When I wear them - my tibia posterior tendonitis is worse, making my gait wobbly. When I take the orthotics out, the pain subsides and I feel like I am walking on air. But... I feel unsupported without them, particularly on the left? I'm seeing a new podiatrist on the 27th (have no faith in my old one). It's driving me bonkers..
Your thoughts would be more than appreciated... many thanks for reading!
Hi Mike
Sorry, yet another injury based question! I completed the London Marathon for the first time last year. This year training has been going well and I have followed the 4 1/2 schedule almost to the letter. I've been feeling reasonably confident and have had to cope with a few niggles but nothing too worrying up until now. I ran just over three hours on Saturday and now I have developed a some lateral knee swelling. I have an appointment with a physio booked and will hold off any further running until I establish what is wrong.
At this stage, how long can you reasonably be off running before you need to either review your target finish time or consider defering?
Really appreciate any thoughts you have on this.
Hi Mike
week before FLM is a nice local 10K - my runners world 3 runs a week programme has a 10 mile run - if I do 10K and run there its about 9 miles. Am recieving conflicting advice weather to run it or not - some say yes - other I'd be mad to. done 20 milwes twice so far so all going well so far _ touch wood and thanks for earlier advice.
How important is getting in a 20mile run before the FLM?
My last long run was approx 15miles back in late Jan when a knee problem came up. Unfortunately, this and illness have demolished my training schedule over feb, with the longest run since Jan21 being the Reading Half, which I did in 1:51 (caning my previous halfM time of 1:59!). Whilst this is a nice surprise time, I just can't see myself building back up to a long run around the 20mile mark prior to the FLM…
I have managed to keep up the daily commute by bike which is about an hour's riding for 3-4days a week, so CV fitness hasn't suffered much from the two colds.
Would I be better off not to worry about the weekday 30-40min tempo/speed/hill runs and just look at working on longer runs even if they're only just running home from work (11-12kms in around an hour) a couple of days a week?
And finally, would I be correct to think that I may not need as long a taper as the schedule I was following (Intermediate plan from RW Guide to Running book) as I've not been doing the full schedule?
Thanks!
Hi Mike,
I am running my second marathon (FLM) and hoping to finish between 3.45 and 4hours. Training has been going well and by the time the taper starts I will (hopefully) have done 5 LSRs totally 100miles having done 3 20s already.
I am going skiing with the family on Easter Sunday and so will be missing the first long run of the taper and probably all the midweek runs too. Is this likely to affect my performance in London ? Also I have noticed that the LSRs advised in the RW schedules for the taper period are longer than those in the Marathon Magazine I received this week. What distances would you recommend?. I thought I might run the first Long run of the taper on the monday I get back from skiing - would this be wise or should I miss it ?
Many thanks for your time and advice
Looks like you've got a few Qs stacked up
You gave me some advice a few pages back - just as a quick refresh I'm trying to go sub3 at stratford for my first marathon, you advised me on getting a bit of speed in my legs, unfortunately the session after the first speedwork I got a bit of tendonitis and had to ease off a bit with steady miles, no speedwork
I was well enough to do my 20 race @ 6-45s sunday just gone (you advised me that I as a long way out I should run it hard) now I really enjoyed it feeling strong and there was a fair amount of wind on 2nd half, but at no point did I think great I can do another 10k at this pace BUT I want to! I would rather be at the startline with every chance of hitting the 2.5x, than it been touch and go for the 3hrs.
Stratford is 6 weeks on sunday, would you be able to re-evaluate my plan and suggest how I can find that last 10k please
Here are my sessions I am planning to do - I can always add in a morning here or there if needed
Mon lunch 6-8 slow
Tues lunch 6-8 slow (you had suggested some speedwork for this)
Weds evening was upto 16 progressive, but I'm now thinking of trying to go 10/12/14/16 @ 6.45s pre taper
Thurs lunch 6-8 slow (again you had suggested some speedwork)
Fri lunch or evening has been upto 16 but again I'm thinking of similar to weds
Sat Rest
Sun Long progressive have been upto 20, this sun offroad 18 miles steady, then I think 20, 22, 22, before reducing back down on the taper
Thanks a lot in advance for your help!
Cheers
WTGY
Alexandra and Astride,
Looks like the Asics Breakfast Run in Kingston (I guess that is the 16/8.2 race you are doing) is a popular choice for March 30! Maybe I will see you both there. You may know this already, but the race has a lot going for it ... flat, easy course, Lucozade Sport same as FLM, well-organised, easy parking etc.
I am in a similar quandary to you ... should I race it hard or not. I have actually run Kingston several times before (March and also the autumn version) and would love to break my 2:06 pb. I am in good shape for this having run 1/2 marathon pb at Wokingham a few weeks back. When I did FLM 2006 the Kingston 16 was 3 weeks before, so was perfect for long & hard session, but I too am wondering if 2 weeks before is too close for racing it. I am not really thinking of dropping down to the 8.2 mile race though, the question is whether to race it hard, which is what I really want to do, or to try a controlled marathon-pace run. Mike - advice on this would be appreciated (fyi - did 3:52 for FLM 2006, and aiming for 3:40 this year, though 1:38 half suggest maybe I should be able to go closer to 3:30 even).
Hey Mike....please help!
I am training for my first FLM 08 and so far I am behind with my training. I have been training 4-5 times per week and my longest run so far has only been 12 miles. I worrying that I have not done enough long runs to what I should have and feel that I may not have enough time now to get the miles in.
I was going to run in a 10 mile road race this weekend, but feel that I need to try and get a 13-15 miler done instead. Please can you recommend a plan for the distances that I should be running over the next weeks until the marathon. I feel a little lost now and am aware that I also need to be tapering down for at least 2 weeks.
I have been struggling to keep my mind focused and keep having mental blocks in my training sessions, sometimes having to stop for walks (even though I don't need one due to tiredness but more mental blanks!). I would really appreciate your guidance with the long runs schedule over next 5 weeks. The more I worry about the fact that I may not have enough time the more difficult I am finding my running. My longest run so far has been 1 hr 45 mins and my PB for a 10 k is 61 mins. need some expert advice! Thanks Claire
Hi Mike,
I am training for my first marathon in Paris on 6th April. Unfortunately, as I overpronate a lot, it seems to cause me lots of injuries! ....I was doing really well with my training in November/December but got shin splints just before xmas, which has taken me months to get over. i only just started running again a couple of weeks ago. Therefore, I'm just not sure I'm capable of doing the marathon? I do build up fitness very quickly though, so potentially could get a lot of training in in the next few weeks, but equally don't want to get injured again.
I'm planning on entering the 20 miler in hemel hempstead in sunday 16th march, just so i can guage how far it is mentally.
Does anyone else run a marathon with as little training as me? If it is too much for me can i just jog my way round, or walk if i need to at the end!!
Thank u
Louise
Hi Mike
FLM - First Marathon. Training was going great guns (Nov - Jan), upto 15 miles in 2 1/2 hours, before suffered ski-ing sprain (10 Feb) to exterior knee ligament. Repaired now and ongoing physio attention but now running with neoprene knee support to prevent twist . Re-intro to training with one weeks rest then one weeks exercise bike before gradual return to running, but having to manage distance to not overdo strain on leg. Completed half at 1.46 last week and felt really comfortable and aimed for 16 yesterday but pulled up after 13 with excrutiating cramp in hamstring of other leg, bizarrely knee no problem. Aerobically no problems. Three questions please
I am concerned by my lack of decent long runs in preparation, what should I aim to do over the next four weeks in terms of maximum distances ?
Will there be benefit to a long run every fifth or sixth day rather than one a week to fit one more in ?
Wearing a knee support seems to have altered my stride which is causing me not previously experienced tightness in the calf muscles. I've tried every stretch I can think of and at rest it's fine and I don't suffer aches after the run, but during it they tighten after about five miles. Any suggestions how I can reduce this tightness ?
Many thanks and what a great support website
Clive
Hi Mike
Lots of questions for you to answer!
I picked up an injury in the Reading Half 2 weeks ago - I suspect that it is my piriformus muscle. I have not run since, but tried 2 miles this morning and the pain came back. I am off to see the physio this pm. My longest run was 3 weeks ago when I ran 16.5 miles. Will i still be ok for London if I have to lay off running for another week?
Hi Mike,
This is my last question, honest! And thanks for the help you've given us all.
With half times of between 2hrs 4 and 2hrs 9, I would love to think that I am capable of a marathon time of 4hr 30. But given the pacing problems I learnt the hard way at Gloucester, I'm not sure whether it will help or not if I follow the "pink balloon" of the sub-4-30 pacer, in Paris. Will that mean that I go out to fast (again)? There is no slower pacer than that, so if I want to go slower, I'm on my own as regards pace. Which is best?
And to the rest of you newbies out there - I'm getting round now by saying that I never have to run again after the Marathon is over. Unless I want to, that is...
Hi All - and hello Hilly.
Sorry I havent been online for a while - Im in the Algarve on the RW training camp and for some reason my laptop is playing up.
Ill try to pick up on some questions but if i dont cover something please pop on againand remind me.
Alexandra,
I would run the 16 miler as a progressive run trying to run the second half at MP. This leaves good muscle memory and positive thoughts about achiveing your goals rather than starting too fast and having a bad final experience.
Dundee Runner,
I would run the half as a race and then reasssess after that.
Bootsie,
I would stick to the 11min group and increase pace if all things seem to be going comfortably.
Birmingham Owl,
The problem is that unless you are running very slowly or walking you will use glucose quicker than you can replace it in the short term so you do need to have that adaptation.
However, at this stage I think your long runs should be moving into a new area where they become race pace preparation and you should be looking at speed at the end of the run - this is best achieved by going out slowly to preserve glucose and then come home at MP.
I think you need to work closely with your physio on this one but even with reduced training at this stage you can complete the marathon by adjusting targets realistically.
Hi Mike
Hoping to prompt rather than pester! Would appreciate some advice if you have a minute to respond.
Lateral swelling on knee (referred to in my previous post) would seem to be located around vastus lateralis rather than knee. Physio can't find anything of concern with knee itself. Have stayed off running for a week, without significant reduction in swelling. Having followed 4 1/2 hour training schedule to the letter (longest run just over three hours a week ago) how little running can I get away with at this stage? I was thinking or reducing four runs a week to three, allowing greater recovery time between runs, but feel anxious about the need to get in the longer last run this weekend.
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
Thanks Mike for a brilliant holiday in the Algarve on your spring training camp
It was superbly organised and I surprised myself with how well I ran!! please thank Janice and Dave for all their help and support:both were excellent.
Unfortunately I've picked up a virus(probably the recycled air on the plane) and had a temp of over 100 yesterday
......so no running for me.
Having seen Sue on the holiday- she found a 'little pocket of swelling' on my foot which she worked on. I have been to see a physio since returning from the hol and they are working to reduce the swelling. They say it should be fine for FLM. I will come to see you at the 2:09 stand at the expo in London. Michelle and I are definitely coming next year
Thanks again Mike
Jane
bump - same as Jack-Jack...
Hi Mike,
How important is getting in a 20mile run before the FLM?
My last long run was approx 15miles back in late Jan when a knee problem came up. Unfortunately, this and illness have demolished my training schedule over feb, with the longest run since Jan21 being the Reading Half, which I did in 1:51 (caning my previous halfM time of 1:59!). Whilst this is a nice surprise time, I just can't see myself building back up to a long run around the 20mile mark prior to the FLM…
I have managed to keep up the daily commute by bike which is about an hour's riding for 3-4days a week, so CV fitness hasn't suffered much from the two colds.
Would I be better off not to worry about the weekday 30-40min tempo/speed/hill runs and just look at working on longer runs even if they're only just running home from work (11-12kms in around an hour) a couple of days a week?
And finally, would I be correct to think that I may not need as long a taper as the schedule I was following (Intermediate plan from RW Guide to Running book) as I've not been doing the full schedule?
Thanks!
Mike,
I've had a nightmare 2 weeks... I went down with a chest infection on the 11th March and have not been able to run since the 9th March (13miles) then due to the illness. I've been on strong antibiotics and have been resting as direcgted by the doc. I'm still coughing a little but my legs are itching to go running.
I'm really concerned about my training. I'm intending to run today for the first time - just to see how much I can do. I'm hoping that I will be able to do a long run on Sunday but I am concerned that the illness has effected my lung capacity and that it won't be that easy to just do a LSR. I know I'm meant to be tapering after Sunday but am I am to do some short runs through next week to build my lungs and legs up again? I have the week off and want to make the most of that.
I'm not worried about time at all, I just want to complete the marathon and have a good experience and I'm worried that the illness at this stage will mean that I'm not properly prepared.
Any advice you can give would be much appreciated.
Hi Mike,
i'm running into a few problems.. i did a 21 miler at the weekend that was on really bad ground.. alot of slipping around and stoney paths so my ankles took a bit of a battering.. anyway that was sunday and my ankles and knees are still pretty sore.. i'm going to see a physio today.. but am a bit worried that i will miss my long run this weekend?? any advice?
Mike
Not sure if you are back yet or laptop working in sunnier climes but a quick question on target time if I may. I have been running for a year and did the NYM in November in 3:50. Was hoping for 3:30 but was far from 100% think it was teh time zones, flights etc. Ended up ruunning slower than some of LSR!
Anyway have come back and with a new training programme that I have been following since November. Has been going well and have completed 5 X 20 mile + runs. Sixth will be this Sunday at 24 miles. Then its 16, 12 as taper before FLM. I was originally aiming for 3:30 but wonder if I should push myself more. Did Thanet 20 which has a few short sharp hills in 2:27 and some left in tank about a month ago and Bath Half on Sunday in 1:27:35.
Most of LSRs have been around 4:45-4:50 mins a KM.
Whilst know its my call what would your advice be on aiming for 3:15 on the day?
Keith
Hi Mike
Question about sports drinks.
When I first started training three months ago I didn't drink at all. I started drinking sports drinks about 6 weeks ago, and found they helped. I think I started to overindulge though, constantly necking them during training right from the start.
My questions are:
1) [on race day] Is it better to hold-off the sports drinks until at least ten miles into the race, to give the body a chance to efficiently use carb-reserves, rather than encouraging it to rely on sports drinks?
2) [during training] Should I cut-back on the sports-drinks leading up to the FLM, so that my body gets used to making its own energy? My thinking is that if I do this, then come April 13th the sports drinks will act as a boost rather than a crutch, and may help beat the wall. Is this right?
Many thanks
(eta: first marathon, aiming for sub 4:30, recent times: 13miles in 1hr40m, 15miles in 2hrs, 18miles in 2hr40)
Hi
I am aiming for under 3.20 this year. I have completed 3 x 20 milers and 1 x 23 mile runs. I am due to do 22 miles this weekend and am unsure whether to run this as a classic long slow run for time on feet, or try and run a bit quicker e.g. 8.5 for first 10, 8 for next 5, 7.5 for next 5, then last two at recovery pace? I then have an 18 and a 12 miler for the next couple of weekends.
My previous long runs have ranged from 9.00 pace(for the 20 and 23 milers in Feb up to 8.00 pace for the 20 miler last weekend.
Many thanks and hope you are all having fun in the algarve - wish I was there!!!
City Fan,
I think if you are in good condition racing a 10km the week before a marathon is a good way to sharpen up . Have a couple of easy days after and maybe something short and quick on Wed then final taper and carbo loading before FLM.
Archibald,
Running a 20 is not essential - it is more the overall affect of regular training that is important. Keeping up with the cycling was good and I would agree that concentrating on quality at this stage be the best use of the time left.
I would go for a 10 day taper.