Beginner-based marathon advice with Mike Gratton

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  • Mike

     Sorry, but I have a variation on a recurring theme that I'm sure you must be getting sick of answering, but I really need some reassurance/advice.

    3 weeks ago (2nd March) I ran 18 miles, the 9th March, I ran a half marathon, then I was injured and have not been able to run since.  So I've not run for just over 2 weeks.  I now have a cold, but am planning on running today and Friday, and then attempting 20 miles on Sunday and having a 2 week taper.  On my runs and on the marathon itself I am doing run 9 mins walk 1min, with the aim of just getting round.  I'd love to get round in 5hrs, but now really just want to finish.

    Am i being stupid thinking I can still do this after so much time off at such a crucial stage?

    Thanks

    Piggyback

  • Hi Piggyback,

    I think you can do it without doing the 20 on Sunday - infact you may have a better chance of doing it if you don't do the 20!

    The problem is that since you have missed training your recover capacity will not be the same as when you were on top of your training and you run the risk of not recovering from the 20 miler by FLM. I would go out and run as you feel for 2hrs - regardless of the distance - and call it a day. It will be better to do this and then tick over with some shorter runs up to the middle of the last week.

    Your run/walk strategy will be helpful in achieving your goal as it will encourage you to keep the pace even throughout which is the best way of getting around without major problems.

  • Thanks Mike - that makes good sense.

    Do you know, it hadn't even occurred to me to enter another marathon! But as you say, that will solve both problems - sponsors and times. It's a great idea and that way I can raise money in London and satisfy my own pride somewhere else.

    Many thanks for such a practical solution and for bringing me some peace of mind!image

    I'll look out for you at the Expo!

  • Mike

    I would really appreciate your advice. My training was going to plan, its my first marathon and I was hoping for sub 5 hours. I did a really strong 18 miler 7 weeks out and an excellent half marathon at Reading 6 weeks out. The following week I developed several pulls in the calves and under physio advice have not ran since. I have tried to keep my cardio fitness up with swimming and cross training but it has been diffcult and I know I have lost quite a lot. I still have a few aches and pains but am ready to start running again. My physios advice is to take it easy. I feel I need a long run as I have missed my scheduled two 18s and a 20. However I really want to finish London so I thought if I build up slowly for the end of this week, cross training and gentle running alternative days. Then Sunday try 13 miles followed by 10ks on alternative days until the Tuesday before the race. What do you think?

  • Hi Mike,
    I have got an injury last week. my ankle on the inside below the ankle bone is quite sore and the inside of my knee.. my physio has said something about a tendon but is saying that with rest i should be fine for the marathon. Can you suggest anythign i can try and do to speed up recovery or help stay fit? ? ?
  • nik959, I think that sounds like a good plan - make the first runs very easy and after a few days if all ok run a short section of your runs at MP to see how it feels and build a bit of confidence. Keep an open mind about finish times - start with the intention of finishing and if all seems to be going well in the second half then maybe pick it up a little and try to finish strongly.
  • Hi Bootsie, You can't speed up the healing process of a tendon - do the things your physio has probably told you - ice, rest, anti inflamatories and then gentle mobility work to regain the length of the muscle. You can keep fit with non-weight baring activity like cycling or cross trainer but get advice first as you don't want to agrevate the tendon.
  • thanks mike... its so close to london now i dont want to mess it up but dont want to loose fitness either!! scary stuff at this stage.. it isn't sore any more just a bit achey! i'm guessing the half marathon this weekend is out of the question though
  • Hi Mike - 2 weeks out and I am in trouble! This is my first marathon and was feeling very good at Christmas doing lots of different runs so had a good base to start from. Started off training to sub-416 week schedule but things have been difficult recently, mainly with extensive travel and a couple of niggles, so have not been able to put in as much training as necessary. However, I scaled back my ambitions time-wise and was still feeling confident of getting round sub-5 when  3 weeks ago I broke down on long run...was aiming for 18 miles and first 10 went really well but then I had bad pains in my legs and I had to bale out! I have been doing more travelling since then so decided just to rest up and not risk any serious injury. I am planning a gentle run this weekend just to test things out and maybe a bike ride to get some CV work in. Will have to see how the legs go but I still want to do the marathon and I am thinking (assuming no injury recurrence) of a run/walk strategy to get me round. I still feel confident and positive about my leg strength and general fitness/stamina though worried about possible injury. Also, given I have had 3 weeks off just now, I don't suppose I should be tapering and would like your thoughts on whether I should be starting to build towards race day, and if so, what is a sensible way of doing that - any advice?
  • i have found all the training and i am only on get you round (nearly 65 yrs ) & never done anything like this in my life the most disrupting thing ever cancelled holidays hardly ever go out for a drink really tried to keep to the plan lots of aches & pain prettywell everywhere but just got next weeks easier plan & started to smile again all i want to do is beat 7 hrs (sounds easy i know ) but not for me easter sunday 4 hrs in the snow was a killer but nearly being there suddenly feels good but cant wait to get it out of the way to start living again my wife reused to come to london originally but having seen what ive been through has changed her mind .

    hey what a thing to achieve (if i do ) yeah its been woth it . 

  • Hi Mike

    It is my first marathon, and now i am starting to panick.I have been following the 'get you round' traning plan. I am a very slow runner, a 13 minute mile. My training was going really well and i felt pretty confident. I ran in my first half on the 3rd March, following my race planfor the FLM, and surprised myself. Afterwards i felt good and felt like i could of ran a couple more miles.

    However, the day after  left knee was swollen so i left of the training for 10 days, although i felt no pain or discomfort. Since then i have continued training, my minimising my longer runs to 3and half hours, as I am scared of an injury so close to the day. But because of this i feel i haven't covered enough miles, longest run being 14 miles. Also my knee is contining to swell, but no pain.But whilst out i feel fine, apart from this rain!!!

    Could you please give me some advice. The plan was to be able to run the first 8-10 miles then follow the walk- run regime. Do you think i should follow the walk-run  throughout the marathon? I was hoping to complete it in under 6 hours but iam aware that my goal may have to change. I am also going to seek advice from a physio. Any advice will be great. Thanks

  • Mike,

    I stumbled across this thread and must say it offers fantastic advice and is very encouraging.

    My problem is similar to others and I am really after some reassurance / guidance please. I was hoping to get sub 4hrs and training was going well till Sun 2 March. I had done up to two 17 mile runs and then got a tear in my calf. Had physio since with a couple of gentle 5 mile runs. Seems OK now and did a 16 mile run on Sun 23 March. I really would like to do an 18 mile run tomorrow (Sun 30th) and then taper but wonder if two weeks away is too near FLM. I feel I need a longer run than 17 miles but is there enough time to recover. I know you are getting lots of Q's like this but I would really appreciate guidance from someone as experianced as you.

    Thanks. Nick

  • Hi Mike

    Injured at Reading half at beginning of March, not done much running since.  My longest run was 16.5 miles at the end of Feb.  I now have orthotics and have done a couple of short runs over the last week (max 5 miles).  As this is my first FLM, will i still be ok??  I have been doing some cross training in the gym to keep my fitness up.

    Was following the 4.30 plan, now just aiming to get round.  How long should I do tomorrow??

    Thanks

    Rosie

  • This is turning into the crocks-r-us page it seems!!!image Maybe we should all meet up and hobble round together! I guess there must be a lot of people in the same boat...the training is gruelling and takes its toll. I had to roll over my entry from last year because of injury (bad calf strain early on in the schedule last year) so determined to do it this time. Good to read posts from people like Ken though, 65 and toughing it out. I am hoping some of that kind of inspiration will get me round on the day!
  • Mike

    One of the RW marathon newsletters recently advised breaking in a new pair of shoes for the race and ideally having between 100 & 200 miles on them at race day. I bought a new pair at the beginning of February and if I stick with them they'll have about 360 miles on them by race day. Is there much advantage in buying a new pair at this late stage and breaking them in for the last 2 weeks?

    Basically do I go into the marathon with a pair of shoes with 360 miles on them (and an extra £70+ to spend in London) or a newer more cushioned shoe with about 55 miles on the clock?

    Thanks 

    Phil

  • Evening Mike, another nervous runner here!  I am running Paris next weekend hopefully within the sub 4hr 30 goal and I am getting a bit unsure as to whether I have done enough in my taper time.  I am happy with my long runs, I've covered 170 miles in the 10 weeks before taper, my speedwork hasn't been too bad and my natural running pace seems to have gone up from 10 mm to around 9.30/9.45mm.  My taper has looked as follows;

    Week 1: 6 mile steady run with the club and 11 mile brisk-ish run alone.

    Week 2: Speed session totalling 5 miles split into 1 mile warm up and warm down and 6 4 1/2 minute bursts at a good paceand a 4 hour hike up a Lakeland peak.  I am planning a run out tomorrow, maybe 10 or 12 miles.

    Final week. (Next week) Club run of around 5 or 6 miles steady and one other session.  I am travelling on Thursday and Friday and so will not be able to run.  I plan to stretch my legs in Paris on Saturday with my race day kit on for 20 minutes or so.

    I am worried that I have lost the intensity of all these weeks training, does my taper look ok  as I feel a little sluggish and I haven't even started carb loading yet!?  I will complete the race I am confident of that, having done three 22 milers back to back I know roughly what to expect of my body.  I guess like everyone else I need the reassurance of someone in the know!! 

    Thankyou in advance for all your help.

  • Hi Mike,

     Another newbie here. Thankyou so much for all the excellent advice you give on here,

    Until recently my training has been going pretty well. Apart from a virus in February which meant that I had to miss a couple of weeks I have been able to follow the sub 3.45 training program within the suggested times and felt OK. Last week I was suposed to be doing my 22 mile LR and did all the pre race prep regarding food that I had been doing. I also take a jelly baby for every mile and a gel at every 5 miles. I alternate between Lucozade Sport and Water for drinks. After about 12 miles I felt terrible and had awful stomach pains as though I wasn't digesting anything which made it harder to take anything else to eat or drink. I stopped after 17 miles and was pretty much out of action for the rest of the day and even the next day still had stomach ache which I had to take pain killers for.

    I put it down to drinking too much beforehand or a bug, however today in my 18mile LR exactly the same thing happened after I took the first gel. I tried to keep running but it got so bad that I physicaly couldn't even drink water so I figured it was probably safer for me to stop at 13 miles. I can't understand why this has started happening as I have been using the same gels for over a year with no problems.

    This is what I ate and drank beforehand to prepare.

    Pasta -7.30PM last night

    Porridge - 1 hr before I set out (although I probably finished it about 40 mins before)

    250ml of Sports Drink 1 hr before.

    During the run I had 1 Jelly baby at every mile gel at 5 mile and Lucozade Sport and water.

    Do you think it could possibly be due to not leaving enough time for my breakfast to digest or have I suddenly got an intolerance to gels? I am so worried as it is too late to start experimenting with anything else but I know that I need to take on something during the race to avoid hitting the Wall.

    Sorry for the length of the post but I really appreciate any advice you might have.

    Thanks again,

    HH

  • Hi Happy Hermit

    Another marathon newbie here and looking forward to FLM.

     In response to your problem, I experienced something very similar back at the very start of my marathon training. A friend recommended that I eat porridge before my LSR. I tried it out on my first LSR with her (10 miles) and had to take off at 9 miles and sprint the last mile home to the loo!  She found it very amusing!

    I learnt very quickly that I needed to finish eating porridge at least 90 mins before running. I also try and make it with mainly water and a little milk and this helps me digest it quicker. Maybe you have the same problem either way its worth a try.

    Good luck anyway and I had forgotten about the use of jelly babies, I will take some on my LSR this weekend to try.

    Jules

  • Paul,

    A get-you-around walk run strategy makes sense at thios stage. I wouldn't try to build towards FLM as it is too late to have any real fitness benefits so just go for 'ticking over' runs to get you back into the mechanics of running with putting stress on your body.

    You are unlikely to get injured during FLM if you keep to your strategy but the lack of fitness may show through after the race as a longer recovery time needed to get back to normal.

  • Hi Emma,

    The impoertant thing is time on feet rather than the length of the run - physiologically you will have made the adaptions after about 2 hrs of running and your long runs more than adequately cover that.

    The best strategy is to do the run walk from the start rather than to run until you are tired and then start it as it will then be too late as the damage is done. If you pick up the RW get you around pacers they will get you to a 6hr schedule.

  • Nikki

    It is probably too late but I think the 18 mile run will be OK particilarly if it gives you confidence - 2 weeks is enough time to recover from this level of effort.

  • Sorry, that should be for NickK.
  • Hi Rosie,

    As with the others, if you keep to the get you around strategy you will be fine but may take longer to recover than if you had full fitness.

  • Paul,

    If you talk to any FLM runner right now and there will be doubts because of some ailment or other - it's a natural part of the sport and most will ride a wave of emotions from can't do it to visualising finishing with a sprint from now until the big day.......it's true even for the elites who will all be playing down there chances - it's amazing how many have been injured for 6 weeks then pop up to run fantastic times.

  • Phil

    Your feet serve the best care in the race as they are the only thing in contact with the ground (hopefully!).

    Shoes with 350+ miles may not be worn out but the midsole will have suffered some compression and lost its bounce - I would go for the new shoes and wear them alternately with the old for a week then exclusively in the last week so they have bedded the shape of your foot but have not started to wear. Alternating them also prevents the small possibility of some leg soreness from making a change.

  • Dalesgirl,

    Sounds like the usual level of panic. Everything looks fine and that last 20 min run will probably be the most important in getting you into the right state of mind.

    Most people feel sluggish before a big effort and I think it is mostly the brain playing tricks as it knows there is a big effort to come so it starts to make you preserve energy. I have certainly felt terrible in the days before big races but on the day it usually all comes through and the adrenaline rush gets you going.

  • HH

    It does look like you simply have too much going in. Your blood sugar level in your liver will not be altered by the porridge so that in a way is just excess baggage and you either need something lighter or eat it much earlier so that it clears the system.

    Although it is not suggested for normal good health most runners will switch to easily digested foods in the morning before a long run or race - toast and jam, banana , as they will digest more quickly and the sugars will be more quickly taken up - you can deal with 500-750ml of fluid per hour of running depending on your body size and the gels themselves shouldn't be making you feel ill as they will digest extremely quickly.

  • Thanks Mike!

    I did 10 miles today very slowly (about 2hrs 15) and was OK, just a bit of stiffness in the hip and felt tired.  I intend to do some shorter runs through the week, and do another 10 miler next weekend, does that sound OK?  I am also doing yoga to keep me stretched and flexible.

    It's good to hear that other people are experiencing problems.  I am determined to do the marathon even if I have to run/walk, which seems pretty likely at this stage!

    Rosie

  • Thanks for your advice Mike. It has eased my hysteria!image I felt well prepared for the half , but it seems quite daunting now the marathon is only a couple of weeks away. Although i am quite excited in a weird way. All i talk about is running at the mo- my poor husband! Thanks again

    Happy Hermit   i am also a newbie. I had the same problem, i have to eat my porridge at least 90 mins before my long run. Also i have found that i got stomach cramp with having lucozade sports and gels, and having to find the nearest loo!!!. So now i only have the gels with water on my LR. I thought it may be down the the high glucose in them both. I make my own sports drink which i drink about an hour before i venture out. And this seems to have solved the problem. Hope this helps.

  • Thanks for the sound advice and the encouragement Mike. Decided to do a gentle run in the end this morning and injury cropped up again so looks like even a walk/run strategy may be out of the question. Was 5 miles into gentle 7-miler designed to ease me back in and test things out and the the calf/ITB problem meant another disconsolate walk home! Is there anything I can do or should I just bite the bullet and pull out?
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