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Beginner-based marathon advice with Mike Gratton
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I'm aiming for my first marathon in September and intend following the sub 3.45, 16 week schedule, starting mid-May.
The schedule calls for a race at the end of week 8 so I'm planning on entering a half marathon.
What race target time (if any) should I be aiming for and should I make any adjustments to the schedule pre/post Week 8 Half Marathon.
Many thanks.
Thanks so much for the advice Mike, that definately makes sense. I have a 13 mile run next week and I will make sure I give more time after eating to make sure it is fully digested before I set out. I will try skipping the porridge and go with the toast and banana as you suggested.
Thankyou Emma and Jules for your advice as well, It is reassuring to know that other people have experienced the same thing and found a solution.
Thanks again.
Rosie,
Looks like a sensible plan to me - good luck.
Paul,
It's not sounding good - but don't pull out until the last minute just incase.
Steve,
1.40 would be a good indicator that 3.45 is possible. If you run better or worse than this then you need to make adjustments in your speed work - particularly MP training speed.
Hi Mike
I completed my final run last Tuesday and haven't run since. I was suffering from shingles (a mild bout) but thought I was okay to run. My immune system seems to think differently and a sore thoat and general ill feeling has prevented me from training.
I'm hoping to get back out this week but am not sure on the best approach to make sure I still get to the start line fighting fit - how much should I do?
Thanks
Little m
Mike
Hi! I posted here last week, and was very reassured by your reply! But now I need more help!
4 weeks ago (2nd March) I ran 18 miles, the 9th March, I ran a half marathon, then I was injured and have not been able to run since. I was planning to run 20 miles yesterday, but then decided to follow your previous advice to me and just run for 2 hours. I came down with a cold last week, and had 2 days off work, so didn't run again, but still went out yesterday. I managed under 10 mins before I got really wheezy (I'm asthmatic, and colds always settle on my chest) and I had to turn around and walk home. I've now not run for 3 weeks, and am really panicking. I am going to try running again tomorrow, and then am thinking of doing 70 mins next weekend, which will be about 6 miles. Am i being stupid thinking I can still do this after so much time off at such a crucial stage?
Thanks
Piggyback
Mike,
Sorry to bother you. I have been training since Jan and all has been going very well. I did the long run over easter weekend and that was fine. I started to fell a tightness behind the back of my knee and it has become reallt stiff. It does not hurt to run but I know that by the time I get to 20 miles it might start to play up. As well as this I have a pain in my groin that goes all the wat down the side of my leg. Im sure that both of these will go with a little rest and some physio. Im just worried that I will not have run for a couple of week before the day. Is a bike any good for just keeping yourself in trim.
Little m,
As little as possible to keep some form.
I suggest that you go to a track or flat piece of parkland and just do 80m shuttle runs - slowly at first walking back for recovery and start with maybe 4 or 5, increase the pace and the number of runs a little every other day - you will soon get feedback from your body that the problem has cleared - if you don't feel OK doing this level of exercise by Wed before the race I think you should contact your GP and get advice on the possible dangers of taking part.
Piggyback,
It all depends on the status of the cold you got - if your temperature and resting pulse are normal and you are not suffering from a tight chest then maybe 60mins would be enough and then taper down with short runs every other day.
If you are still showing symtoms then don't do it and only run small amounts if at all until it has gone. As mentioned in previous threads - it is possible to get around FLM having missed training if you take it steady and respect the position you are in - the main effect is that recovery will take longer.
However, if you are presenting a high temperature and/or raised resting pulse that is a different mater than just not being as fit as you would like to have been and you can do yourself physical harm and should consider not starting.
If in doubt always consult your GP for proper advice.
robsmith,
A bike will keep your fitness with the only downside that it is not quite the same leg action as running so you may feel a bit 'lumpy' at first when you run. Cycling 'out-of-the-saddle' is more akin to the running action so may be worth trying that.
If the pain is running down your leg from your groin it sounds it may be sciatica linked - get your physio to check if your glutes are too tight and that your sacroilliac joint is mobile.
Hi Mike
I'd appreciate some advice regarding pacing. I have been following 4 1/2 hours schedule and have more or less followed it apart from a week of missed runs (with a knee problem, although I kept up other cv work) and then a couple of missed runs last week due to a sickness bug. I have had to run speed sessions and tempo sessions on the treadmill but have managed to do midweek longer runs outside as well as the long weekend runs.
As I have done my speed sessions on the treadmill I have run most of these sessions a bit quicker than suggested and more like the 4 hour schedule hoping to equate the effort to running outside. I've been reviewing all my long run times and can see that I am running anywhere between a 10 minute mile pace to nearly an 11 minute mile pace (on my longest 19 mile run in truly dreadful weather). I am a bit disappointed with my performance over the longer runs especially as I have been quite diligent with the speed sessions. I am thinking 10 minute mile pace is too ambitious, on the other hand I'd like to beat my time last year of 5 hours. What pace would you recommend I start out with?
Many thanks for any advice.
Hi Jack,
It's very difficult to guess outside of race conditions and a half marathon or similar race would help to guage a predicted time.
It is usual for you not to approach your planned race speed during your training runs - its almost impossible outside of the race environment as you don't have the adrenalin or emotion of the event to spur you on.
10 min miles gives you around 4.20 so that is possibly just a bit too fast and maybe if you go out at 10.30's and speed up gradually once you are warmed up and have some free space around you should find your 4.30 target managable.
Hi Mike,
I am planning to do Paris this weekend but in the last 2 weeks have suffered with an ITB problem that I can't shake off. I am seeing a physio but there seems to be little I can do at this late stage to eliminate the cause.
The pain kicks in after 5k but appears to be "manageable" with pain killers. I really would like to run as I have a charity place but is there a risk of serious damage if I try to run through the pain? Also, do you think I would be crazy to consider cortezone injections?
Thanks for your advice
Mike. I did my first half marathon yesterday for which I have been training since January/February so thought I would be okay. However, even though I had tried to pace myself - trying to do a 10 minute mile - I found that when I looked at my watch at the mile poster I was running too fast (I was doing it in 7 minutes rather than 10). I thought I had slowed down but the next markers showed that I was still doing the same speed. I felt I was in a group of runners of the same ability to me because I wasn;t struggling. However I got to mile 8 and felt as if I was running out of energy. Are there any tips at trying to pace yourself when doing a race that you can let me have? I would like to feel I have more energy towards the end to keep going and put a spurt on to the finish.
I may not help matters because when it is an early morning race I cannot fuel myself up the way I should as I always find I need to run to the loo and this continues throughout the race. I usually just have a slice of toast and may be a banana. Do you have any suggestions that can help me in that respect as well?
Thanks very much
Trish
Stephen,
I'm not experienced enough to advise on cortesone injections - you need advice from a Dr or Physio on that. Massage and antinflamitaries are the usual treatment and I would think you have still got time for the route to be investigated.
Whether it will cause long term problems is difficult. Essentially it is a soft tissue problem that will clear up with rest but you need to find the cause to be able to assess what the long term damage problems could be.
Dalesgirl & Tricia,
The problem of pace judgement in FLM is difficult in that the other 35,000 runners will get in your way. It is essential that you start in the correct time zone - well you have to as Lm will have seeded you to a coral - this will mean you are at least starting off with people all trying to go at the same pace.
You will not hit your required pace for a few miles and the temptation is to get frustrated and start to push through - this will waste energy and just get you more frustrated.
Try to pick your way through gradually and when you do get some space around you try to run just a fraction quicker than your target pace rather than speed up to catch up lost time.
By 10km or so the race will have settled down and most of the people around you will be running about the same pace as you and this is the time to get into a relaxed state and just concentrate on ticking off the miles.
If you get it right you will start to pass groups of runners who have got it wrong after 15 miles and you'll pass many people walking after 20 miles - this will be good psychologically and will reward you for tolerating the situation early on and keeping in control.
I have damaged the running shoes that I intended to use for FLM. I do have another pair - same make and model - but have ran only 16 miles to-date in them. Two runs, 9 and 7 miles, they did feel ok but would you advise using new shoes or battle on with the old ones ?
The damaged part is to the hard plastic stability web, under the inside of the heel.
Dale,
I would wear the new ones - do a few more short runs in them but the shoes are so good these days that unless they are not the right model for you they break-in very quickly so it is not much of a risk.
thanks for your earlier comments paul hey dont pull out yet still 2 weeks to go i am running with my son who was about to pull out 3 weeks ago went ``& saw someone had 2 weeks rest & on sunday did 10 miles in 2 hrs & thinks the help & rest got him through the same could happen to you .
i ache everywhere below the belt but running for the kids of variety club gives you the reason to get there just dont even think about whst time you might do who cares once you hit that line !
HELLO MY FELLOW RUNNERS and paul nolan dales girl rosie ellis
DONT EVER THINK OF PULLING OUT AT THIS STAGE HAVE CONFIDENCE NOTHING IS INPOSSIBLE U WALK SOON U WILL SEE THE FINISHING LINE THINK OF THE CHARITY U R RUNNING FOR THINK OF THE CROWDS CHEERING THEY HAVE COME OUT TO CCCCCCCCCCCCC UUUUUUUUUUUUUUU TAKING PART CHILDREN OFFERING U SWEETS DO TAKE THEM DONT IGNORE THE CHILDREN
WELL I WILL B WALKING JOGGING I JUST HAD MAIL FROM INJURED RUNNER MY REQUEST ALL INJURED DIS HEARTENED RUNNERS PLEASE JOIN ME I WILL B RUNNING FOR KIDS GET GOING CHARITY WEARING A R E D TURBAN WE WILL ALL GO S L O W L Y SINGING HAY HO HAY HO WE WILL REACH THE FINISHING LINE AND IF U HAVE FAITH IN U WE WILL IF U PULL OUT WAT A DISAPPOINT WITH ALL THE TRAINNING SO COME AND JOIMN ME TOGETHER WE WILL C THEE FINISHING LINE
THANK YOU MIKE FOR ADVISING ALL RUNNERS I AM 62 ONLY STARTED LAST YEAR AND LOOKING FORWARD TO THE DAY NOT WORRIED ABOUT PERSONAL BEST BUT WILL OFFER COMPANY TO ANY FELOE RUNNER TO JOIN ME WE WILL SING AND TELL THE CROWD TO CHEER US OK BUY dilkhush24@hotmail.com www.justgiving .com / malkiat singh GOOD LUCK TO EVERYBODY
WE CAN ALL MEET AT KIDS GOING STAND AND PRAY BLESS US ALL AND WALK TOGETHER
Hi Mike,
I'm not posting particularly to ask a question or anything, but I just wanted to add to the people that have said thank you to you for the time you spend answering all our questions. I've been following this thread a lot as I prepare for my first marathon, and you have always responded to every question with great advice and patience. I'm sure everyone on this thread, and the hard training thread, appreciates the great effort you put into this!
This is my first FLM.
I wanted to know if there is any nutrition (sweets) handed out during the race.
I did all my long runs during training with jelly babies. I was wondering if they distribute any during the race and at what stations (miles).
Please let me know. Else, I'll need a strategy to carry some on my own.
Thanks,
Deepak
PS - Excellent responses to the forum questions. Great advice, Mike!
Mike,
I have no question as you've answered the couple I have asked.
All I wanted to say was that when I started out on this little venture, I felt very alone and to be honest s**t scared. I had never ever run this distance and at 47 and 3/4 am at an age when such new challenges are so much bigger in the minds eye.
However, through this forum, and reading everyone else going through the same pain/joy/issues/uncertainty/bloody mindedness/anticipation - it has made me feel priviledged to be part of a TRULY inspirational event.
Ken Lewis with his 'I ache everywhere below the belt but running for the kids of the variety club ....' (don't I know that feeling - running is less painful than walking sometimes!!!) and Malkit 'DONT EVER THINK OF PULLING OUT AT THIS STAGE HAVE CONFIDENCE NOTHING IS INPOSSIBLE......' encapsulate precisely what brings a lump to my throat (yep, all that pounding of the pavements has made my brains go to mush!)
God, this is a FANTASTIC thing we are going to experience - WHATEVER time we finish in.
Thank you so much for your encouragement and sound advice - I suspect there are a few more who will make it to the start line than may have otherwise done, because of your help.
Allez le 13th!!
Encore mon braves (and no, I haven't been drinking - much LOL)
DW,
They don't distribute sweets on the route and it is always best to become self sufficient in these events and rely on nobody else for support - you can't get individual attention amongst 35,000 runners and there is a high chance of missing friends and relatives on the course if you try to get supplies by that means.
There are plenty of well designed bum bags available on the market which can take a few gels and jelly baby packs.