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Beginner-based marathon advice with Mike Gratton
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Hi Lucy,
Sounds to me like a very sensible approach. Your aim should be to be 'on-your-feet' for up to 2hrs once a week regardless of distance covered and I think you will probably manage to run pretty much continuously by the time the marathon comes around.
The idea of the run/walk system is to give an even approach to pacing the marathon rather than pushing yourself for as far as you can and then grinding to a halt which usually results in an overall slower finish time.
I've managed to get a charity place and will be running my first marathon this April. My time for half marathons is around 1h 30mins what time should I be aiming for the full marathon ?
Hi Simon,
You should be capable of around 3.20.
Hi Mike,
First post here but I am a tad concerned. I lost a lot of weight this last 12 months (near 10.5st) and have found being able to run exhilarating. The FLM is dream come true so this is all positive.
However, I am strictly following a Training plan that has the mix of threhold work, long runs, speed work, hills - even 'Fartlek' - whatever THAT means and am 8 weeks into a nominal 16 week program, BUT whilst endurance is improving vastly, my pace isn't AT ALL. I train 5-6 days a week at the moment and only have a rest day before my sunday 'long run' and am doing around 35 miles/wk (in assorted ways)
I'm 47 and am not precisely slim now (around 15.5 st) and have done half marathon distances in just under 2.5hrs. The last one was much easier but when I tried to up the pace the legs started to go as did the heartbeat.
Will this improve or should I just aim at getting around in 5hrs?
Thanks for any advice
Hi Mike,
Can I ask another question? From one of your answers further up the thread, you seem to be suggesting that daily runs will lessen the risk of injury? Being desperate not to repeat my stress fracture (caused by too much too soon last time), would I be better to do 1 long run + 4 short to make up the (increasing) weekly mileage, rather than 1 long + 2 medium-long? I am following the RW Smartcoach plan which has me running 3/week at present.
Thanks for the time you are giving us on this thread - there are clearly a lot of us newbies out here!
Hi Mike,
Thanks for giving your time to help us newbies.
I attempted my first 14 mile run today (I managed 12 last Sunday). I tried a gel for the first time before I set off, but unfortunately , it didn't suit me and I got a sudden and very bad case of the runs within ten minutes of taking it. I made it to about 9 miles on my run before developing a sudden stitch. I normally do a few slow, deep breaths to open up the diaphram and it goes away, but this time it didn't. I spent another 3 miles stopping, stretching, walking a bit till I was sure it had gone, then started running again (slowly). After about 40-50 metres it kept coming back and I had to concede defeat at 12 miles because it just wouldn't go away and I was beginning to get angry and emotional. My question is: Is it possible that my 'sudden trip to the loo' dehydrated me too quickly , and could that have any baring on my getting such a bad stitch?
The other thought is that I don't yet have a water belt, so I'm having to carry a 500ml bottle around in my hands. Before I started taking the bottle with me I didn't suffer with a stitch at all. Can the weight of the bottle contribute to a stitch? The bottle remains full until I reach around the 5 mile mark, so it's quite heavy. I sip around 250ml of water before I set off on any run.
Hi Mike
Quick question. This is my first marathon but i've been training for a while now and have completed a couple of half marathon training runs in the last few weeks
I've been looking at various training plans for the next weeks building up to the marathon. Some seem to suggest building your long run mileage every week for three weeks, adding one mile per week, and then dropping down for the fourth week. Others suggest adding 2 miles each time to the long run but alternating long and shorter weeks.
Any thoughts on either? I have a history of injuries and am nervous about getting it wrong!
Also, what sort of time is realistic for me? I have a 24mins 5k and have just done my half sessions in 2hrs
Mike
I have just managed to sprain the ligaments in my foot and the doctor told me it will be 4-6 weeks before it heals, although that was just a brief analysis down the hospital last night, no thorough checks were made.
This would then leave me with 6-7 weeks training for the FLM, is it possible? I know my target time of 3:30 would be out of the window, but as far as just getting round, will this be enough?
Also, should I do anything else in the meantime to keep my fitness levels up? I could use a static bike in the gym without any real problems, would this be beneficial? Also someone mentioned an aqua jogger?
Any tips so that I don't come back in bad shape would be appreciated.
Having secured a place in this year's FLM, I have been following a hybrid (sort of) of your 4:30/GYR training plan. The "sort of" caveat is there because I am running three times each week at the moment, rarther than four or more. The sessions I run are two five mile runs during the week as fast as I can manage (circa 44 mins) and a long run at the weekend of between 2:15-2:40 hrs (which my Garmin tells me is 13-15miles). In the run up to FLM, I am wondering whether to introduce a short (eg 30min) hill or speed session, although I do wonder whether the extra risk of injury in the run-up is worth it. Although I have only been running since April last year, I am confident this will get me round in under 5hrs. One thing that struck me in the prose accompanying your training plan was the implication that the time of the long run doesn't really matter as long as it is over two hours (although you do suggest going up to 3 plus hrs to improve "confidence"). Have I interpreted this right? I have knocked out 2 plus hours for all my long runs for the last twenty weeks. I think I can step up to 3hrs in the next few weeks quite easily, but wonder whether this is worth it given the extra risk of injury. If "confidence" is the main issue, then perhaps the logic is I should perhaps just knock out a couple of three plans runs four to five weeks beforehand. And it may be my time is better spent on long run day looking to increase the distance I can cover in 2 plus hrs. Grateful for any advice.
AnneP,
The most important thing is to always start fully hydrated but it is also important to get used to drinking on the run. The key is to take in a small amount regularly - like you I find it difficult to hold down but I find water is better than anything else in that respect. Scientifically isotonic drinks are best for rapid digestion but can feel sticky if you are not used to them. Unless you are going to take your own drinks with you then you will need to get used to Lucozade as that is what you will get at FLM.
Hi Martin,
At your current level I don't think there is a lot to be gained in speed work and I would concentrate on building endurance with one long run & one medium long run per week. One speed session would suffice at the moment I feel and a marathon paced session would be ideal. Once you have more fully developed your endurance you will then get more out of the speed work as you will be working on an improved physiology.
Hi Crazylady,
I personally prefer spreading the load so doing less but more often should reduce the injury risk. I would build up the number of days and then gradually build up the quantity once you are comfortable with the frequency.
The real problem with the 3 days a week schedules is that you have to get 100% out of each session since you are effectively cramming your training into fewer days - the intensity of that can lead to injuries that probably wouldn't happen if you take a gentler approach.
Hi Julie,
I think it is unlikely that the gel was the cause of the trots - they work fast but wouldn't not have reached the intestines in such a short period. If the gel wasn't an SiS Isotonic gel then it is possible that the gel dehydrated you a small amount - but compared to the loss through sweating it would be marginal.
If you are able to identify that the stitches started when you started to carry a heavy bottle it may be that it has affected your bodies balance and a bottle belt may cure that.
It may be that you just had a bit of a dodgy day and may need to see if a pattern developes each time you use a gel or carry a bottle.
Linnhie,
I don't think there is much danger in either approach as the incremental increase over a month is going to be much the same. I prefer the 3 months gradual increase with a recovery week myself but in the end it will come down to your preference.
Hi Moscowflyer,
It would be possible to still do FLM if you can cross train and get some impact running in the weeks before the race.
Check with a sports speicialist first but I would think that a static bike (cycling out of the saddle uses the same muscle groups as running) nordic ski machine and cross trainer should be OK and aqua jogger is very good cardio vascular training.
If you maintain CV fitness you may surprise yourself on how you can do in FLM.
Thanks Mike, I must admit that's given me some courage and I feel a bit more positive now, I won't abandon everything for the next few weeks then and I'll stick to maintaining my cv fitness. I used to cycle 200+ miles a week so maybe I'll get the bike out and do a long ride with lots of work out of the saddle instead of my long run.
Hi Florian,
It sounds to me that you have it just right and should keep doing the 2 - 2.30hrs runs and pop in the occasional 3hr one.
In simple terms the physiology that you are trying to develop will be activated after 90 min to 2hrs activity and doing more will not necessarily improve your endurance - there is a point of diminishing returns.
Your priority now that you have established the long runs is to start to increase the pace so that you cover more distance in the runs. This may be done not by starting more quickly but running steady for the first 3/4 of the run then gradually speeding up towards the end and extend that out further over a period of weeks and months.
Doing some basic speed work - and hills are good at this stage - will help you manage speeding up in the longer runs but you don't need to do that much - one hill session and a shorter fast run at marathon pace each week is easily enough.
Hi AP,
Try running a lap course and leave a bottle somewhere safe and sip a small amount of water each time you come around. In training and in this weather there isn't a great need to drink but it is as well to get used to drinking on the run.
I won the London Marathon without drinking at all during the event - but it was a rainy cool day and I was only on the road for 2hrs 9mins. When I ran in Manila I drank lots every mile and still got cramp in the last mile and lost the lead to a Chinese runner....so much depends on your need.
Anne - I find it very hard to drink like you do too. I experimented yesterday by carrying a bottle in a bottle belt on my 8 mile run/walk. Managed to drink 400ml over 1.40 by sipping a little fairly often. Was pretty pleased, and other than lots of burping(!) I felt mostly OK. having a bottle in a belt was definitely preferable to me than carrying it, or even having left it in a bush which I had done previously. I felt like I had to drink more in one go then as I really didn't want to carry the bottle for very long (and it wasn't a lap course like Mike suggested).
Hi Petedaddy,
I'm sure there is research into it but I think it depends on the person. I used to do all my steady running in the morning without eating first and all my quality running in the early evening - I would pretty much graze on bits and pieces but had a proper lunch and big meal after the evening session. On the other hand Sarah Rowell who was 3rd in London and part of our training group did all her training early morning.
If you are doing short runs you don't need to be taking gels or beans - make sure you have something to eat straight after - I had toast and fruit and probably a pint of milk after my steady morning runs. The benefit of gels over beans on longer runs is probably that the gels are in liquid form and easier to get down and the SiS gel is isotonic so can be used without additional water - other gels and beans you will need to drink some water with them.
Hi mike
just a quick one - when doing tempo runs should i be nearer to 10k pace or HM pace ??there is so much conflicting press im not too sure
also on the marathon paced efforts should that be the target marathon pace or current marathon pace??
and finally on really long runs 18 + what pace do you advise??
thanks in anticipation
Sng
Hi Mike
My physio has just confirmed my foot injury is a strained ligament and not a tear, so I could be running again within a couple of weeks. I am using the RW FLM schedule that I downloaded to my Forerunner, how would I get back on track after a couple of weeks off, pick up where I finished or try and juggle things around to catch up on the speed sessions and long runs I will have missed?
Have a nice trip!
Hiya Mike,
been out for 2 weeks due to stinking cold/flu type vile bug, It's my first marathon and I'm not aiming for a specific time but just want to finish the thing I've got the original training plan (smartcoach), should I just carry on as if I've not stopped or adjust it? I've got 2 halfs coming up (brighton and silverstone),
Tell me I'll be fine to run the FLM, PLEASE