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Great North West Half-Marathon
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MT got your entry this morning will post your number out as soon as i get them from the printers.
Hope your return to running is going well do you have a wobble board great for strengthening ankles as they are always weak after a accident i have found my ankles are far better after using the wobble board
Soup,
A race organiser under UKA rules pays for a licence fee based on the number of entries. See my post above to BR.
Having just checked on the ARC web site I think there's a typing error: It does indeed state 35% of the additional £2 charged. But I always believed it to be 35p per entry.
Intresting: Until now I believed my permit t Freckleton would be cheaper under ARC but it now appears I'm better off with UKA.
No Mas - hi, nice to see you still enjoying your running.
As has been said, emailing the race organiser or the results service people is the best thing to do in your case.
BP - just to clarify - a race organiser would pay the ARC a flat fee based on the total number of runners in the race? Or would they pay 70p out of the £2 charged for unattached runners? If so, what is the purpose of the other £1.30 and would the race organiser get to keep that?
If that is the case, then if a running club were putting on the event, the surplus would go back into the club to develop running as a sport. If it's put on by a commercial organisation like SRH Promotions, I would assume it goes as profit to the promoters.
So we have runners missed off the results? As was stated by Cloud Nine early in this thread, runners were promised chip timing. They seem to have paid for something that would have avoided human error in processing results, but which the organiser decided not to provide.
Unattached runners put on the results as `Wigan'?
Just posing the questions for Cloud Nine to answer. He's gone a bit quiet the last few days...
BR: I'm a little confused myself as to the exact fee structure with ARC. I believed, until today, it was a fee based on entries but that's not whst their web site suggests.
But basically, yes; the race organiser charges unatached runners more than he/she does attached runners.
Tne race keeps any surplus generated from unattached fees. In the case of a running club it's probably used to keep subscription fees down and contribute towards club costs.
In the case of the Freckleton Half Marathon, which is not a club, we use it to keep entry fees down.
In the case of commercial events such as the Great Run Company, LondonMarathon Ltd, the money goes to their profits.
Ron probably just wastes it on luxury cruises, caviare, upkeep of the mansion, his butler, private jets, charity donations, goody bags, lower entry fees, prizes, road closures, marshals, commentators, first aid, and refershment stations..........................
pete
I am swimming 3 times a week just taking it easy with running just doing speed I feel happy with but I walk a lot aswell now
I am starting with the 2 sheffield races from Don valley ie 10k and H/M and in these races I will take my time I just want to finish
BR
there seem to be a lot of clouds in the sky
Brian,
Are you suggesting that the race was not organised by a commercial organisation, i.e. SRH Running Promotions? Are you suggesting that with an estimated gross income of £23-24K, plus sponsorship, no one turned a profit?
Then there is the mention of charity again. Can you tell us how much was donated and to which charity?
Right, this is all a bit complicated for me so forgive me if I'm being thick here but if the organiser says x% of the runners are club runners so don't pay the levy, doesn't someone check that those clubs exist? Cos what's to stop me filling in my next entry form, putting "Chorley" down as my club, and paying £2 less?
I wouldn't BTW, cos I'm pretty honest. Well, very honest really , cos I once found a tenner in the street and phoned the police but no-one claimed it so I got to keep it in the end
.
I bet you really wanted to know that didn't you?
.
Soup - who IS that in your picture? It looks a bit like someone I work with...
PF,
It is Yev Kasem, the Soup Nazi - Soup Nazi.
Hmmm, I'd better not tell that bloke at work that he looks like a Soup Nazi then! He's my friend at the moment....
Soup
No I'm not suggesting that - you are simply trying to stir up more of the proverbial wet and smelly stuff.
I was present in Blackpool on Sunday and I met the representative from Disability Sport Events ( http://www.disabilitysport.org.uk/index.cfm ). Her name escapes me but I assure you she is real (and gorgeous) and grateful for the donation given by The Great North West Half Marathon.
Don't suppose there's any chance of you letting go of your vendetta against Ron is there?
Is there some rule in racing that says no-one's supposed to make a profit then? If someone wants to go to the trouble of organising a race, then I don't care whether it's a running club just covering costs or Richard Branson trying to expand his empire. If I think it's good value, I'll enter it. If it's too expensive, then I won't. Call me naive or whatever but I'm not bothered where the money goes as long as I get the race I've paid for.
After all, if I pay to join a gym, a commercial organisation makes a profit out of me.
If I pay to watch a football match, buy a programme, a pie and a brew, and maybe something from the club shop, there's a whole load of people making a profit out of me.
If I go dry-slope ski-ing in Rossendale, they make a profit out of me.
...so why should I mind if I run a race and someone makes a profit?
I don't understand why it's a crime to make a living organising races. If I could be arsed with all the aggro, I'd have a go myself if it paid the bills.
Nice surprise in the post today..............a T-Shirt with a note enclosed saying that medals will follow.
Tweeky
that is good news for you
Nosoup 4U
LEAVE RON ALONE
no one is saying you have to do the races but what Ron needs is runners to support his races not give him grief
I must say Poorly feet has said the most sensible thing that i have read on here for a while yoy excluded Brian.
Now who would like to enter the Sotos 10k on the 28th june quality technical t.shirt to all finishers and every penny raised goes to the Emily-May fund for research into sotos syndrome and i mean every penny and if you are injured i need Marshalls
Thank you and goodbye
I enjoyed this race in 2009 and I will be back in 2010 for it again....
I am signing out of this thread now.
Best wishes to all in 2009 with your running.. I am lurking in Leeds, Sheffield, Liverpool and Humber Bridge HM threads.
No Mas
Poorly Feet - absolutely no problem with a race organiser making a profit out of the race.
However, if we are clear that SRH Promotions is out to make a profit out of a race then we need to look at the quality of the product they are selling in order to make that profit.
The short course at the Blackpool Marathon, the lack of water at previous events, the lack of a finish area and finishing time for some runners at the December 10k, also the lack of chip timing in this race are all examples of a product being offered in return for your money and then not fully delivered.
Now if a running club organising a race made such great cock-ups as these I would think `I'm sure they're trying their best as volunteers a bit of feedback will put things right next time'. I would also expect an explanation of why things went wrong and an apology.
However if a profit making organisation does not provide what it promises, then in most cases you are entitled to a refund as they are providing goods not as described or not fit for purpose. E.g. if you enter a marathon in order to run a pb / qualifying time etc and then find you've mashed your legs running Ron's 25.4 mile race, then the product was not fit for the purpose of running your 26.2 mile time, despite shelling out your £20 odd.
FLM makes a big profit, as does GNR. No problem with these as they provide exactly what they say. Many of Ron's races I've read about do not do this.
I'm sure Blackpool will be fine this year as regards course measurement as Brian has done it and will ensure Ron sticks to it. As to other aspects of race organisation - well I hope for the sake of the runners they are correct this time around.
Thank you Pete - it's not often folk describe my posts as "sensible"!
Fair point BR - and if I felt I had a bad deal from a commercial organisation, I would take steps to get a refund/apology/free entry next time or whatever I felt was necessary to get "justice".
If, after contacting the organisation personally and privately, they were unwilling to put things right, then, and only then, would I come on public forums to criticise them.
I believe that someone who was unhappy about the Boxing Day race got free entry to the GNW half (so some people paid even less to enter than Wesham!) so Ron did what he could to make amends. I'm sure if those who were unhappy about any of his races contacted him directly (his email address is freely available if you look at any of his events under the RW Events Finder) I'd like to think he would deal with their complaints as best he could - directly with them. You wouldn't expect Tesco or Argos to justify their mistakes on public forums (and we all know they MAKE mistakes) so why should Ron?
Ron only has to apologise for his mistakes to those affected. I got overcharged by Morrisons last week but I don't expect them to come on here and apologise to all of you.
The trouble is, I don't know whether yourself or Soup have been personally affected by any of Ron's races as neither of you have indicated if you've ever done any of them. If you have, and Ron has refused to put things right, then please elaborate and I shall revise my opinion of him accordingly.
I only know Ron by sight, and he wouldn't know me from Adam, so I don't know why I feel so defensive towards him. I suspect you and me have something in common BR - we both like fighting other peoples' battles!
Agreed 100% - what matters to me is that I enjoy a good race at a reasonable price - of course that means different things to different people - personally I prefer an accurate course and a modest entry fee, though others may prefer goody bags, medals, T-shirt, generous prizes to the fast runners, etc. Liverpool Harriers have a great 5K series over the summer - £1 to enter, an accurate course , free results but no prizes, no medals, no goody bag!!
Good luck to anyone (like Ron) who organises a race for a profit, it is very hard work. If someone else wants to organise a race for charity or for club funds then good luck to them too. I will be helping with the Southport Good Friday races next month - any profits go to Southport Waterloo AC club funds.
Chief Execs are capable of ANYTHING. Aren't they the ones who get a massive bonus while the shop-floor staff fight over a 1% pay deal? Or walk away with a big pay-off just before the company goes bust?
Obviously this doesn't apply to Tesco and Argos - yet.
Anyway, you're right - they wouldn't make up an assumed name - they'd just send the lawyers in to do the talking for them. I can understand your suspicions about such postings - I shared them when the posting from Cloud Nine appeared. But I haven't seen any actual PROOF yet. So I'm not sharing my reasons for those suspicions on here cos if I'm wrong, I'll look a right pillock.
And if Ron IS posting under assumed names, maybe it's because he feels too intimidated to post as himself. Who knows?
BR - ok the CE may not go on forums under assumed names but you can bet your bottom dollar that someone in big companies is doing so. I know that company I work for puts information out on public forums under made up names. It is usually so obvious it is laughable (a bit like on these forums
).
I know you won't care but I originally didn't warm to you but now I find you rather charming and one of my favourite forumites (obviously behind PF), and I would now suggest that you let this Ron situation go and move on. You have made your point and I just don't think you are going to achieve anything further via this forum. Anyway, happy running old chap and hope to see you in Blackpool one day
I have followed this thread with interest, my take as a fairly new runner is I enjoyed the race, I entered happy with the cost and I will run it again. I made a weekend of it in Blackpool and had a great time. I got a personal best at 1.48m which is 17 better than my last one in Nottm.
I am interested in this Soto's 10k as well. I would once again make a weekend of it, at 51 its the social side of running I enjoy.
Max - thanks - you're the second person who's been nice to me today
. Maybe life isn't so bad after all 
And for the record, I've warmed to BR too because he explains his reasoning
John - glad you're hooked! I think it helps when you can make a weekend of a race. I've done it myself a couple of times in Llandudno and loved it. Here's to many more happy races
Some interesting posts about 'professional' v amateur race organisers.
Athletics is (more or less) an amateur sport and the whole infrastructure of the sport relies on a tremendous amount of unpaid effort and goodwill from an army of volunteers.I'm sure we all know these people and I suspect (like poster Eric) a lot of us 'do our bit' to help -marshalling, coaching, timekeeping,officiating etc. Effectively the sport of athletics simply wouldnt exist without this amateur army. I doubt even the most popular part of athletics ( in terms of number of participants) ie Road Running could survive without this worthy band of helpers and of course the majority of races come under the amateur banner as they are run by athletics clubs and other non-profit making bodies.I think what annoys many ( but clearly not all!) of the volunteer lobby is that 'professional' organisers are seen to be making a profit whilst working within what is in effect an amateur sport ie the 'professionals' are making money whilst the majority just give their time for the love of it.
Of course, the fact that events such as those run by SRH promotions/Blackpool Marathon attract many hundeds, if not thousands, of entrants show that they are providing something that people want and are wiling to pay for. As ohers have said, if professional organisers are willing to set up a business -presumably paying tax on their profit and having all the hassle associated with any business-then why shouldn't they? The question is whether the 'profesionals' could exist without the volunteers holding the sport together. Certainly the amateur part of the sport could exist without the proffesionals! An interesting enigma.
My first post so dont be too critical!
For those that are interested try this one 100% for a good cause.
http://www.ukresults.net/forms/090628sotos.pdf
Look at all this sneaky advertising going on
Old Poster - the only thing I'll criticise you for is being FAR too sensible for your first post. We'll soon knock that out of you!
To Old Poster: Thank you for your observations on the dependency of professional race organisers on the army of volunteers who make races possible. I imagine that often these volunteers are unaware that the race proceeds go to the race organiser. Personally, I have no problem with someone organising a race for profit as long as it is a good race. I am happy to give my time freely as as a UKA official and as a club member to help a professional rac e organiser when I think it is a worthwhile event. Of course, a professionally organised race is no guarantee of a good race. I have run in good and bad races which have been professionally organised. And I have run in good and bad races organised by athletics clubs, charities, etc. We learn from experience and know which races are worth entering.
To Barnsley Runner: Can I join your fan club, I share your enthusiasm for accurate courses. You and other RW posters, by kicking up a fuss, have helped ensure future races are accurate. Of course, with the popularity of garmins, it is less easy for race organisers to get away with short courses.