Wednesday 8th October 2008

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Comments

  • sharkie - you in the book business?

    I believed the day a mile stuff in the early days and 4 days after my first Marathon tried running and was fine, never taken it seriously since. I ran 3 days after the last Comrades and was a bit tight but the running helped recovery I'm sure.

  • Morning all,

    v interesting discussions. I tend to swim or cycle  rather than run in the first days after a mara (usually an IM one for me) to stretch out my muscles and warm everything up. I've trained the day after all my races this year though - even though they weren't 'target' races I raced them as hard as I could - and just slotted back into my schedule, albeit with some flexibility to work less hard than planned. I'll report back after IM Arizona.

    What: hour-ish run with 6 x 3 mins harder (supposed to be max but I'm too afraid of another SF); base swim
    Why: run on schedule, swim didn't get done yesterday
    Last hard: weekend
    Last rest: Monday

    Good runnings all.

  • DustinDustin ✭✭✭
    Yes sorry mava, it is Wabo who's exam is next week....
    Oh and should have paid more attention to the DOMS discussion, legs were awful on my lunchtime run....
  • WaboWabo ✭✭✭

    afternoon all

    indeed dustin it is me, and it will be my last exam of my BA because  next years module has no exam! Well done dustin, you must feel great.

    good trip to nzc

    gobi I agree with DD, I have even gone out for a mile run on the day of FLM.  No way I could leave it 26 days! Having done this running for 22 days on the trot now with no break, it amazes me how each time I set out it just feels easier than it used to, I seem to spring into it so much easier! 

    Holly you do make me laugh...

    stellina love the sound of your rest!

    What: 1 mile am bike ride 20 later

    why: its all good and keeping me sane

    last hard: yesterday morning

    last easy: mile this morning I guess

    take care all

    possunt quia posse videntur - we can because we know we can 
  • Afternoon all,

    Stellina:  The does seem rather cautious.  Why only 3 days per week and relatively long runs? I'd have thought 3 days initially, but build to 4,5 and maybe 6 days, keep the long run and spread the rest of the miles accordingly. 

    Sharkie:  you another northern exile?  Which side o't pennines? 

    Today's training topic:  I don't think I could be accused of over-resting, but as I under-race I can get away with it - apart from the odd-stress fracture.  image Mind you, that occured attempting 3 maras in 12 months, so maybe there's something to the two hard Maras a year is more than enough?

    • What:  17m.  Beginning to feel more like something I do for fun, and less like Prometheus
    • Why:  Mid week, long-un
    • Last Hard:  Yesterday
    • Last Rest:  77 days

    Have a good one!

  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    AF, looking at the likes of Hippo, Ian Sharman and myself I'm not convinced by the two hard marathons theory at all.

    Just using me I have run 5 sub 2.45 marathons this year.

    Maybe it is under racing that causes the issue :~)

    Of course if I get injured tomorrow I may have to change my view :~)
  • I don't run races longer than half-marathons, although I've done FLM a couple of times in the past.  For half marathons, I'm normally back out the next day - it seems that a gentle "run however you feel" session is best for me.  In fact, this Monday, after a disappointing Cricklade Half, I shot out the door and rattled off 4 sub-8 miles before I realised what I was doing and slowed myself down for the final 1.5M.

    What: 6M at lunch
    Why: what a beautiful day it is out there today
    Last hard: Sunday, probably, although today's run was a lot more rapid than I planned it to be
    Last rest: Friday

    I'm now planning a couple of days of rest as a mini-taper leading up to the Swindon Half this Sunday.  Will then run a short, gentle jog on Saturday.

    Take care.

  • AF, Sharkie - hooray for the northern exiles! I'm originally from Darlington but have had to move south to Sheffield for work and the Mr.  miss it terribly.

  • mavamava ✭✭✭
    LOL Catch-up at moving south to Sheffield.  For a soft southerner such as myself Sheffield is way oop north!
  • The North starts somewhere between Exeter & Taunton as far as I'm concerned.

  • AF - thank you for your feedback, the 3 times week is to allow my legs to recover in between runs and also to allow time for rowing training which is 6 times a week. At the moment I do 9 training sessions in total  - they take up 10/12 hours a week, including boat time, ergo time, weights and circuits. I have to say that, apart from blisters (on my hands!)  and the occasional stiff shoulder from the boat my legs are never tired and I have very light occasional  doms. But I do take your point, if my body is recovering well there is nothing to stop me from adding other running days.  I am just really scared of getting injured again! So what do yuo say, when I pass the 20 miles x week I could add another day? I could always go for a 3 miler before getting on the boat.
  • RFJRFJ ✭✭✭

    LOL Mava.... likewise

    What - 9.27m Club run
    Why - the weds Route... went too fast though
    Last Hard - yesterday
    Last rest 8 days

    Take care

  • Gobi,

    Agree that people over rest and then go back into hard training too soon. I'm guilty of racing too soon after London this year and I should definitey know better by this point.

    Gobi wrote (see)
    AF, looking at the likes of Hippo, Ian Sharman and myself I'm not convinced by the two hard marathons theory at all. Just using me I have run 5 sub 2.45 marathons this year. Maybe it is under racing that causes the issue :~) Of course if I get injured tomorrow I may have to change my view :~)
    I definitely agree that multiple marathons/long races don't necessarily cause issues with respect to injuries - think it's more down to how well-conditioned/strong an individual is with respect to a particular activity - running in this case, and how fortunate that individual is with respect to being injury-immune/less injury-prone.

    However, there's absolutely no doubt that multiple marathons/long races compromises performance. No disrespect intended, but you're nowhere near achieving one of your stated goals for the year (i.e., sub-2:30 marathon), and I think this is largely down to being unable/unwilling to focus on a single marathon and spend the necessary time prior to such an event to bring yourself to the necessary peak (i.e., one key marathon rather than 5 run at a reasonable pace).

    Be interested to hear views on this.

  • Recovering from races.   I agree that several days of gentle running is the best way to get rid of DOMS, but on several occasions I have pulled muscles while they are still tight, and not fully recovered.   I remember, that at least the first time it was from playing hockey (with more unpredictable sudden movements) too soon rather than running. Certainly agree that obn the whole, the better prepared the less time it takes to recover, but also how hard you have managed to race, which seems to be mainly due to mental strength, rather than related to distance or preparedness.  I remember reading that Paula had difficulty walking downstairs after her marathon WR, and you can't say she wasn't prepared, but rather that she had the mental toughness to put so much into the race -

    For several weeks after a big race I find that some days training seems back to normal, then get an unexpected tired day, especially if I have tried to get back into structured training straight away.  

    Thirdly, I think there is a lot to be said for having a week or two of rest, or at least very easy training once or twice a year.  After a good race it is easy to be fired up to begin the next phase, only to overdo it and get injured soon after, or go down with a bout of CBA.  Far better to plan rest and recovery periods,  than to have them forced on you by injury.   As someone else has said, most of the elite runners have rest periods after big races.

     Stellina, with all that rowing training you must be really fit.  How does your pace compare with when were running before you strated rowing ?

    What: am hard weights session  pm; 14ml, easy. A pleasant run on a sunny evening around Sutton Park, counting rabbits!
    Why: I happened to have a hour's gap between patients this morning and didn't want to waste it; midweek medium run, between 2 hard days 

  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    TMR

    a lot of my views are based around elites and rest periods. Many of them have a habit of coming back too hard and getting injured hence my view that even they over rest.


    Marmite

    I think you are probably right but only one of them was a planned attempt at anywhere near 2.30 and that was Toronto(others were on the way to Comrades). Toronto ended up being derailed due to a poor 50km run(100km next month is real focus) so although I did the training including the speedwork I didn't do the full taper. That said I still went to Toronto confident of a sub 2.34 but the conditions were far from ideal.

    I have learned that if I really want a sub 2.30 I will have to do 6 months of focused training and TBH as you know I'm not prepared to so yeah looks like I am admitting that I had ambitions above my ability.(focus)

    How are you ?

  • TmR has summarised my interpretation as well. I understand about Gobi's fear of over resting, and it seems logical. But the truth is that a marathon where one has really pushed for pb as a target race will mean that the legs are a bit mashed. Maybe not that there's major muscle damage or tears but minor damage like a piece of tenderised steak. The biologists will probably say that the white blood cells do their repairing in the same time span, ie about 10 days. I believe that it's important to keep light training going in, immediately after the big race, in order to keep the tendons and muscles stretched. Letting them spring back or shorten will lead to the injuries, especially if you then try doing some fast work or long range work.

    Of course, not everyone does go out and mash themselves even on a target marathon or ultra. Various reasons - just see the thread reports the day after FLM for excuses etc. And those who do loads of marathons surely cannot adopt a periodic approach to extracting the peak performance. Otherwise Hipps would have a sub 4 easily.

    And as for the lyrics: I would have said that the situation remained normal.......except that would be a clue. You pays yer money you takes yer choice.

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