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Publicly - Sorry- i've looked back - and got cofused somwhere- what happened i don't know -
only problem with typing on chatrooms
hope u'll forgive me
Go on then! I wasn't upset just a bit confused! Publicly forgiven!
i don't mind admitting
I'm confused over that
I'm embarrased as well - but i'll get over it- providing i've not upset yourself
I'm grovelling at your feet - for forgiveness
to be honest - i've spoken to that many people today about different things-
i can be looking at a thread post somwehere - look at a profile- and well, that's what happens - silly i know -
anyway - onwards -
Seems like a bit of a misunderstanding there which I really couldn't follow.
Minni - well done on your training. I've completed my three sessions this week and two cross training sessions so I'm happy. Cross training sessions probably need to be tougher but still a long way to go yet. I'm following the Furman principles but making up my own sessions. I'm ahead on the long runs but behind on the speed.
Mick'n'Phil - just to say how inspirational you are to me with what you do together. I can relate very much to your story as our third is disabled with severe learning difficulties. I'm sure you have many ups as well as many downs but just taking each day as it comes and seizing the day, becomes all the more important. Well done for keeping on going and not letting life drag you down.
Lovely words Astride.
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I’ve just come out of hospital having received treatment for blood clots in the lung (pulmonary emboli). It came as quite a shock!
Last year I ran 3 hrs 3 mins at the FLM, using the FIRST plan for the last 10 weeks of training but adding in an additional steady run of 6-10 miles (I didn’t do any cross-training). I picked up a calf strain just before the marathon, so it may be that I would have broken 3 hours with those 4 runs a week if I’d stayed injury-free. So my preferred schedule for a marathon is 8 weeks of base training (4 steady runs a week and one short tempo run), followed by 10 weeks of the FIRST plan with an additional fourth run. For me, 10 weeks of FISRT is doable; any longer than that and I dread running.
RunningCommentary – when I do intervals I decide beforehand what I want to achieve (pace and time of each interval and recovery period) and then adjust the machine as I go along.
Best to all – ITFAC
Hey ITFAC- sorry to hear that- hope you are on the mend now- I presume you're out of action for a wee while as far as marathon running goes.
I'm doing spinning as my main cross training - boy is it hard work, - but once a week is enough for that, will try to motivate myself to do swimming as well- I tend to swim one length/ run one (in the pool)- it's just hard to motivate yourself to swim, when you can get the same effect just walking across the car park- (torrential rain in Glasgow this am!!).
Thanks for the support.
My specialist is hopeful that I will make a quick and full recovery. The pulmonary emboli would have caused some (reversible) lung damage but this is likely to have been small and I usually heal very quickly.
I’m medically qualified so I know that I need to be patient over the next couple of weeks and then reassess how I’m doing. If I heal as quickly as I think I will, I’ll resume training for the FLM provided the desire is still there.
But at the moment my priority is to catch up on some sleep (the last few weeks have been pretty draining).
All the best
Spinning very hard, I did it once, I think the teacher must have been useless as I couldn't walk for a week and suspect it caused one of the niggles i still carry now. I did not like it at all.
ITFAC - thanks for the response and hope you're recovering well. It will be some achievement to make FLM this year for you. Very interesting what you say. I am starting out on the standard 3 runs a week then doing a swim and possibly a gym session. As I get used to the LSR on Sunday, I might try to fit in a fourth MP 10 mile run midweek so long as the quality of the other runs are not affected. I know what you mean though, after 7 ot 8 weeks last year, the training really became a means to an end and I was starting to dread the interval sessions. It did work though so I guess you have to weigh up whats important to you. I suspect I won't go sub 3 though, more realistic is 3:05. Good luck to you.
I think I might go for a 6 mile threshold run today and leave the intervals for later in the week.
ITFAC, so sorry to hear about your health problems. Get well soon!
Astride, I normally enjoy the spinning classes but I find them too hard on the legs to help me with my cross training. Our instructor does a lot of stuff at high resistance and out of the saddle, making it a weight-bearing exercise. Or she does this horrible thing where you just about hover over the saddle until your quads burn like hell. Anyways, it's taking up too much strength and seems to tire my legs out for the next run, so I've given up and have switched to easy spinning at a high cadence instead, and some swimming.
Minni - don't worry, the way I'm going, it's unlikely to happen. You have to have a goal though. I think my marathon career peaked in my first marathon and now its all down hill.
Schmidtinator - I didn't mind the thigh burning stuff, it was standing up and making your legs spin really faster that just felt wrong on all my joints and muscles.
Have looked through the book - paces for 20min 5K are as follows:
intervals - 400m pace - 0:01:27, 600m pace - 0:02:12, 800m pace - 0:02:57, 1000m pace - 0:03:43, 1200m pace - 0:04:32, 1600m pace - 0:06:10, 2000m pace - 0:07:48
Tempo - short tempo - 6:43mph, mid tempo - 6:58mph, long tempo - 7:13mph, easy 8:18mph
Marathon pace - 7:24mph (which is 3:10 pace I think!)
Am very glad I'm slow!!!!!
Hi- another really tough tempo run this morning- felt VERY lethargic- I dunno whether it's the effects of last night's large glass of wine, or the spinning class yeaterday morning, but I really wasn't up to the planned 10km , with middle 7km at 11.6kph- felt awful- but not leg tiredness- more metabolic problem- improved after eating some jellies at 5km- this raises the dreadful prospect of going on the wagon before midweek runs!!!!
Not Greased Lightning - I was interested in your discussion.
You now have your times but do you understand why the schedule is built as it is and the importance of the cross training? I thought I'd got it all sorted too but with Xmas day and the Furman book in my hand I started to read - suddenly I understand so much more....it places all the commitment and hard effort into context - you know why you are doing what you are doing.
Even the cross training is bringing change into my training. I swam 48 lengths last week the first time in nearly 20 years and I thoroughly enjoyed it - becuase I knew I was training aerobically but resting my legs post a long quick run the day before.
I thoroughly recommend you buy the book (Amazon about £8) it opens much more than a schedule and times........afer all training is 99% of the time so we all need as much motivation as possible!!
Better to do that than carry on tricialitt. you'll be fine next week. take care.
Well done Minni. I did the 15 miler yesterday and like you was slower than the target pace. I felt much better this week than last week though. I'm just happy to get the miles in just now as I feel if I went any faster I wouldn't complete the distance.
You'd mentioned before that you are slower on your long runs in training but it comes together for you on the day. How much slower do you normally do your training runs compared to race day? On previous marathons I've gone for about a minute per mile slower on the long runs but I always worry I won't pick it up on race day. The FIRST schedule is obviously faster than that. I usually do my last long run a bit nearer target race pace. I have had a couple of injuries over the last year and a bit and I feel so much slower now!
Tricialitt - we've all had days like that and I'm sure you will be back to normal on your next run.
Tricialitt - well done. Sometimes the hardest thing is to know when to stop and yes it is very hard (but we are training for a marathon and consistency is better viewed over 16 weeks of training not 1 day....I bet you'll very quickly be back on track whereas if you had carried on....
Lou7 - I agree I worry that training is slower PLUS for the marathon you never run greater than the race distance like other shorter eveents - I guess we have to hang tough and beleive in the science behind the schedules.
I had to hold back today on my long run- unlike last week when I ran too fast and was veeery tired early week.
The blogs today seem to be telling me - look at the bigger picture and follow the schedule.....
The first schedule seemed like a really good idea at the time!
I managed my long run at the required pace for 14 miles last Sunday which felt good at the time. The following day I ended up with an ache on the inside of my leg right at the top (not sure what muscle it is!) which left me with a dodgy tempo run on Tuesday. Then came down with my son's cough and cold so missed Friday's session. Thought I'd go out for a long one yesterday as hubbie was going away and it was my last chance to get out of the house but even at 3 miles I was well off the pace required and felt pants so came home for 5 (I did get a few dodgy looks with my coughing fits!). Ironically, even after yesterday's 'non-run' the ache in my leg is back and has now spread round to the outside of my hip .. I think I'll have to give up now!!!!!
Lou, I've always done my long runs at least a minute slower than race pace and maybe I've already come a cropper by trying to do the 'required' pace this time round ... only time will tell.
The rest at the weekend seems to have helped- came close to nailing the 3x1600 intervals this morning- feel OK, too- feet still slightly tender, but rolling soles on a small hard golf ball sized roll after seemed to loosen them up- feeling a bit more positive today.
I think you have to start off slow and controlled and gradually build up the pace. At this stage, I really wouldn't worry about pace on the long runs, possibly the slower the better. Let your body adjust then when you are comfortably going longer and recovering well, start to think about time. Last year I did all mine between 7.45 and 8mm and one or two faster 15 miles runs and a few progressive 20 mile runs. I did 7.15 pace in the marathon. After my long runs though I initially had 2 and sometimes 3 days off running. Only ran when my body felt up to it again. Listening to your body has to paramount.
Lou7 - I too always find it amazing how everything come together on race day. You somehow seem to be able to run faster with less effort. Probably due to rest, adrenalin and there seems to be something magical about running with hundreds of people.
The other thing I've picked up on is to refuel as soon as you finish your long run. This is really helping me with recovering.
I did 18 at 8mm at the weekend, which is a minute slower than planned marathon pace. Once I get a 20 under my belt, I plan to start picking up the pace a bit.
Forever Hopeful - I hope the hip sorts itself out. Don't get too despondent, you could try taking a few days off or even a week and still be ok. Maybe replace your training with swimming for a week. Remember to stretch and perhaps, if you don't already, take some cod liver oil and glucosamide for your joints. Unfortunately, managing injuries seems to play a big role in marathon training for most people, myself included.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I have to agree that at this moment in time completing the long runs is far more important than worrying about pace. But you kinda want it all at once don't you?!
Astride, you are making me laugh. Your "slower" training pace is faster than what my intended marathon pace will be! I'm aiming for sub 4 hours, so much slower than you. My long runs at the moment are around 9.30 pace but I am hoping to pick this up once I have got my first 20 miler out the way. I can only dream of your kind of pace - well done!
Forever Hopeful - I know how you feel - i've had a couple of injuries over the last year or so and it is so frustrating but I'm sure you will be back on track soon. Good advice from Astride - good luck (and don't give up!).
Tricialitt - what a difference 3 days make!! good to hear your latest run was on par - keep going.
Forever Hopeful - Becareful - like Astride I suggest you keep off running for a few days. I also notice you only allow 1 day from long run to tempo - these 2 sessions are the most critical and hardest on your body - looking at the First book, I suggest you put in a day of cross training in addtion to the days rest or move the tempo until later in the week and replace with a recover run. Keep relaxed there are still 13.5 weeks to go. For example: I completed a 16 miler (1:50) on Sunday, Monday 54 lengths swimming and today 5 miles recovery run so my body is fully recovered(ish) ready for the next key session of 5x1000m tomorrow. If I'd ran a tempo today I'd not have achieved the pace and would probably be fostering an injury too.
I agree with Astride on the glucosamine - I take a 1500mg tablet every day - very cheap off the internet.