Bit of legal advice please

TopSec

I need a bit of advice regarding getting paid for some work I have done. Briefly, I have done some freelance work for someone as a PA. I made the error of agreeing a monthly fee but not putting anything in writing as he is (was?) a friend. He paid the first couple of months but I am now out of pocket for 3 months money and some outstanding expenses, which amounts to quite a few thousand I have now 'resigned' my position and am chasing for the money. At the moment I am being met by silence.

Do I have any chance of getting it back through any proper legal procedures without having a signed contract? I have plenty of bits of documentation that can back up the fact that I was doing work for him.

Any advice or guidance would be great (apart from the obvious; should have had something agreed in writing! )

Ta

[Deleted User]

I am not a solicitor, nor do I have any legal training. However, as I understand it, a contract may be implied from the conduct of the parties. If, say, you regularly attended the business premises of the other person and undertook tasks consistent with the actions of a PA then a court or tribunal might well infer that an employer / employee relationship existed. The fact that the initial months work were remunerated would reinforce your argument. Were you taxed on these earnings? Similarly were deductions made for National Insurance etc? The other obvious question is whether this person is in fact solvent. Contract or not if he hasn't got the money any recourse may be academic. I'd take some qualified advice, and Good Luck.

[Deleted User]

In your first instance, try Citizen's Advice Bureaux - they're often good source of advice.  At my local one, they have a solicitor come in once a week and he gives 30 min advice for free - not saying that yours will also, but they might offer you something.  Even if not, they have access to lots of advice and could either provide you with details, or refer you to others who could advise/help.  Alternatively, you could look into making a claim via small claims court - think the level of compensation they deal with would come within your limits, and, having done that myself (albeit 20+ yrs ago) I just had to present my case to the judge, she listened to both sides, and then made the judgment (in my favour, but like you I was "in the right" but I also made a better presentation).

Good luck 

[Deleted User]

What I would do prior to meeting with anyone is look at some background into Contract Law.  For a contract to exist, you need to have certain elements in place.  See attached link...

http://www.contractsandagreements.co.uk/law-of-contracts.html

A contract can be implied I believe.  So have a read of this, and make some notes as to how you think that your circumstances relate to you having a contract with this person.  It will then mean you are well prepared for any meeting with solicitors/Citizens Advice etc...

Edit:  You may then have a case for breach of contract. 

[Deleted User]

No formal qualifications on contract law, but a bit of training as part of my job where we enter into contracts both as client and contractor.  I would agree with the above, especialy as with the payment of the first two invoices which clearly shoes an agreement to rates and reimbursment unless there was a specific scope that was completed by those two invoices and the further work deemed to be additional.  But without a documented scope or budget ceiling then I would assume the presumption would be for you.  If it's less than £5k then small claims is the way to go.  In fact small claims may be the go in anycase, as although the max you wil get is £5k +costs that may be easier than the full amount and write off the difference unless it's way more than that.

Nicko. Hdau

Send the boys in

JPenno

If its less than £5k then you will have to go though the small claims court and can only recover fixed costs, IT is uneconomic to employ a solicitor for a small claim, particulalry a contested one, BUT it might be worth getting one just to do the hearing (not all the form filling and correspondence) if you are talking about a couple of £000 to ensure the correct legal arguments are put forward and to ensure you are not nervous and or angry during the hearing, losing your cool will lose the hearing!!.

You will find that Lawyers will not normally provide advice on an open forum due to the possibility that someone who the advice is not intended for follows the advice and loses a claim and then sues the Lawyer for providing the advice, there are a number of cases arising from this.

You have also provided insufficient details for an advice to be given

IF you want the mail me direct I willtry to assist

TopSec

Thanks guys, all your advice seems pretty much what I thought. Hopefully there is a long way to go before it comes to anything legal, because he knows my personal circumstances he knows I won't be jumping up and down to keep a roof over my head, it is beginning to irritate the hell out of me seeing him buying things online (I have access to his email accounts) and spending money on himself, yet not paying my bills!!

JP, if it does degenerate into something more serious, I will email you and provide more details.

Thanks again.

Nicko, good idea

Muttley

I hate to be negative TopSec, but enforcing a small claims judgement is harder than obtaining it in the first place. I've had to resort to the court a couple of times, for failure to pay for freelance work (in my case translation). I was up against companies, mind, not individuals. On one occasion the other side simply vanished, on the other they claimed everything in the office was rented and nothing was theirs. The court officers didn't bother to enquire further, and tbh I thought they were a waste of time. If a similar situation arose in future, I would be more likely to ask a couple of large cauliflower-eared gentlemen if they could do some persuading ...

On the one occasion I won a claim against a private individual, I did get my money.

[Deleted User]

TopSec, I would print off all correspondence you have had (both ways) with this person and build up a file.  Any emails, plus details (dates/timings) of phone calls back and forth will show that something was going on between the two of you!  If you post him anything now, do it with proof of delivery so he can't deny receiving it... 

TopSec

Thanks Blondiee, I've already started doing that! Got lots of thing printed off from emails etc where he said I was his PA and asking people to deal with me. I don't think my problem is going to be proving I was doing work for him, it will actually be getting him to pay. He has already had financial/legal issues and wormed and cheated his way out of some of them so (I know this from working with him previously).

I think the best way to deal with him is to threaten (I only use that lightly) him with exposing him to his friends (and family!) with the fact that his big "I am" lifestyle is being funded by the fact that he is not paying me! With hindsight I have been far too naive and trusting

JPenno

Muttley - The best way to enforce a debt if over £750 is by Statutory demand and Bankruptcy Petition/ winding up petition for a company. It normally stops any pi$$ing about.

[Deleted User]

You could always offer him repayment terms.  But if you do, type it up, print it off and get him to sign it.  Thereby you have a repayment contract.    Would a few hundred a month be better than nothing at all? 

[Deleted User]

Sounds like naming and shaming is the way to go then, any possibility of spreading the word amongst his "business associates" - in an extremely "caring and sharing" way - embarrass him into coming up with what he owes you?

Failing that, and I appreciate that it might have a negative impact on his work/income - counter productive financially from your point of view, but if he's never going to pay you () then at least you might get revenge

[Deleted User]

If you have not already done so, now might be the time to begin formalizing the issue preparatory to taking it to court, should the need arise at a later date. I'm assuming that you have tried it the nice way first, by asking for what you are due - probably on several occasions. I think that you should put the whole claim in writing listing what you have done and what you believe you are owed by way of salary and expenses and demand payment in full. This will hopefully flush his intentions out. Once you know his position you can then go forward, either by negotiation, litigation or humiliation - which ever suits you best. In addition, in your shoes,  I would make it clear that I would be doing no more work for him until the matter is resolved to your satisfactin. Again Good luck

[Deleted User]

The reason for doing no more until the initial dispute is resolved is not due to spite, by the way. It is to preserve your position in possible later proceedings. If you continue to work in the knowledge that your " employer " disputes your entitlement to remuneration you might be deemed to have acquiesced in his view and then find it harder to recover any further debt accrued.

[Deleted User]

You've probably saw this on the link that ba humbug Blondiee posted, but if you missed it

http://www.contractsandagreements.co.uk/law-and-verbal-agreements.html

sounds like you've got a verbal contract, so good grounds on which to argue your case.

TopSec

Liam, thanks for that, that is interesting, I have been doing a couple of left over things these last few days, I thought it better to tidy them up myself rather than pass them on. I will now do what you suggest.

Latest update is I have been paid one invoice and expenses and now am just left with £6k owing. I will give him a few weeks to sort out (last invoice was only for Nov so that is not really overdue yet).

Thanks all for your advice, it is a great help!

Muttley

Thanks JP - I'm aware of those procedures and you're right, they do get attention when invoked. But as I recall they're fairly costly, and on one of the occasions I mentioned above the amount outstanding wasn't so huge (still angered me becaue of the principle, though). This was in the pre-Google era, when company info was harder to come by.