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Jelly babies or Gel?
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Hi Mick
Hi el bee
i'm watching -
Managing Director
Those Who Speak Out Of Their Arse With Much Skill Inc.
LOl - i like it
I thought I was quite self depreciating el Bee....
Your physiological bit is a tad far fetched though. The physiological 'need' to take fuel on board is based on personal conditioning and effort surely?
Prescribed standards of distance and fuel intake are not going to inspire confidence in anyone new to running, building their levels of fitness, recovering from illness or training for a race. Protecting the confidence of runners and encouraging them to run despite physiological benchmarks is sure what this site, and the sport in general are about?
I confess sometimes it does get on my nerves a bit. But I'm mostly used to it - I try and keep the heavier bits (bottles, PDA) closest in to me. But it beats the socks off having a backpack bouncing around behind me. So it give me the ability to run to work - any running is better than none (and quicker in York than driving!).
And as I say, it kind of tucks in under my belly - so it doubles as a support/truss! (That's a joke, mostly . . . I have cinched it up really tight once when suffering gosh awful back ache whilst running, and it did not a bad job! It's got quite a wide belt.)
But a good thought about the weight - actually I've lost more than it weighs fully loaded, so I guess I'm still in positive territory - but if I could take 13 minues off my 1/2 marathon time I'd be very very happy indeed!
slo sho - Hi there
It's been a long time!!
Yes - time on feet does have an effect - particularly as for many people they need to leave a decent amount of time between their morning porridge (or whatever their chosen food before a long run or race is) and their run!
210bpm - I'm sorry - have I missed something..? Where exactly is the prescription..??
slo sho - the real benefit of any of these things is purely to do with the sugar rush.
You can't metabolise glucose to glycogen in such a short time, and so the gels or jelly babies or whatever is your chosen sweetie will only really affect your blood glucose level.
And because that is what feeds your brain - it is very helpful from that perspective.
And to get the maximal effect from that - you need not to 'hit' your body with a big hit occasionally - but take lots and often
I believe there was a thread about this about 4 years ago when it was generally agreed that a jelly baby every mile - or a gel every 30 minutes (ideally just before water stations - although the maths dosn't work out for most folk) was about right!
So the general consensus is for a half marathon 4 or 5 jelly babies (or similar) after about an hours running? I have also read about these energy drinks etc Is the water at the stations not enough if you need to take fluid on but what do the energy drinks have in benefit over water?
I have my first 10k race in 2 weeks my first entered half marathon is the GNR so interested to see what other folks doing for the halfs.
That's a prescriptive statement if you ask me. It's also only applicable to certain people with a certain physiology. You point about hypoglycaemia is not the excepting factor here - there are many of them.
Glycogenisis doesn't need to happen - moreover, under stress, the body simply wouldn't undertake anyform of convertion. Glycogen debt is typically witnessed at extreme leves of stress and is a response of purely physical need. Taking fuel on board - such as glucose - can provide a mental stimulus. It is this that is often critical to beginners and those not used to putting themselves through ANY period of sustained exercise.
If you need mental energy to finish a race, and your mental self is fuelled by food, then why is it not accptable to take on fuel early doors?
It's semantics, but it IS important to state that if people need to take on fuel on a run of any distance they should do so without feeling they are failing in any way shape or form.
i dont think bee would any way be stating that people should feel belittled from the fact they eat during races.
Anyway. . i have a 20 miler in a few weeks and im going to try a 3 mile to 1 jelly baby ratio
First time I took jelly babies, I left them in the back pocket of my shorts during a long run, the sweat after 6 or 7 miles made them in to one big lump. Lovely.
After a half marathon there is a lot to be said for a few pints of beer and a bacon butty. Incidentally I have started using SIS Rego after hard or long sessions and I'm finding my recovery is a lot quicker and less aching.
Pardon me being thick folkes -
i read what yur all saying - but i do things my way anyway
but PLEASE what's so special about jeely babies anyway -
all they ever do - or should say have done - ( as i don't touch them now - a days - ) is leave me craving with thirst
i nice banana a do enjoy
210bpm - I didn't ask you!
You took it upon yourself to call me a Talker Of Much Bullshit - cherry-picked the bits of my posts that suited you - and ignored the rest.
You seem to claim to wish to help folk - but all you've really done is 'flame' me!
Nice
eL Bee! wrote (see)
So, you did ask me.....
eL Bee..you need to calm down. It's a forum, a place for discussion.
I was fairly conciliatory when I saw my first post, and also earlier on today - but you opted to jump in with both feet after that.
Toughen up, untwist you knickers, and back away from the screen.
LOL
That's nearly funny
Hi eL Bee, wasn't sure you'd remember me! Abingdon's still my fondest marathon memory.
I think what you said about time between breakfast and running having an impact is what affects me. Because I have a dodgy tummy I have to leave a good 2-3 hours between eating and running, and can't take sports drinks at all.
The great thing about the energy gums is, not only do they give me a boost, but they also distract me from feeling tired as I have to concentrate so hard on unsticking them from my teeth without ripping out my fillings!
I have got my first half marathon tomorrow and I'm scared!! My longest run to date was a ten miler (done on monday), which felt horrible for the first 6 miles then okay-ish after that. To be fair though, this run was done after a day at work where I hadn't slept well the night before, and having done a 10km race two days previously.
I am hoping that having a few day off running (work was manic this week and I didnt want to risk tiring myself out before tomorrow) and the fact that I wouldn't have been working all day previously, will help when doing the half mara. My only problem is that I have been concentrating on spending time on my feet to get the distance in rather than hill training, and this race is one of the endurance trail series - in south Devon!
I drink like a fish at the best of times so will be taking some water with me.
Unfortunately jelly babies are not suitable for vegetarians, so Im having to fork out two whole pounds for a tiny bag of veggie jelly baby equivalents from the local health food shop! I will be taking some with me for the race for when I get tired. Even if it just a mental boost it's better than nothing.
Wish me luck!!! If you are also doing this race and see a girl with long hair struggling up the cliffs, swearing alot and generally looking like she is way out of place, it's probably me!
nom
here's wishing u luck -
but try and relax- down the fluid
wishing u a great race - all the best
micknphil
nom - have a great run
The trail series are tough ones! Just get out there and have a fantastic time. Cracking one to pick as your first, as well!!!
Slo sho - 'course I remember
That Abingdon was very memorable for lots of reasons!!!
I'm the same with the length of time I have to leave between breakfast and race start - 3 hours!
Or I get very bad reflux and stitch!
LOL - I love the image of unwelding your teeth as a distraction activity! But if it keeps your blood sugar level up, AND takes your mind off being tired - it's doing its job
Nom - you have three hills to deal with. One near the end. It's a stunning course and if you start at the back you'll get a nice check on your pace - in fact, you'll be walking at the start and for the first half mile which is a steady way to get going.
el Bee.... twas farking funny, nothing nearly about it! Hang on...00:14? Are you on nights?
Go easy people.
really useful thread this thanks to all so far, I'm heading for FLM in April (first marathon) and after several years of halves, am peering over the top of the 'second half' with some trepidation and wondering whether/what to refuel with etc. For me, I never really needed anything but a gulp or two of water in a half, possibly a lucazade pouchy thing if they are giving them out about mile nine. But I run them in training with nothing at all (too lazy to lug the extra weight) so now i'm wondering about liquid which I know I will need but will also start experimenting with various fuel inputs too. Bit confused about the science of what's stored in the muscles and what runs out after a couple of hours which causes 'the wall' and therefore the earlier posts about the body not metabolising the on the run inputs are a bit confusing! Thanks again!
Ticklos
Matthew - the trick at London is to get yourself used to orange Lucozade Sport - because there is loads of it.
there are also water stations very mile after a couple of miles.
So there is ample water (too much some would say - because it would be difficult (and dangerous) for anyone to drink ALL of a small water bottle every mile!) - and for the extra glucose boost - you get that free as well!
Saves having to carry anything on race day!!
The 'Wall' is something you tend to hit if you go out too hard at the start, and get the pace wrong from early on .
There are differing views on 'why' this happens
Traditionally, we are told that it is because we 'run out' of muscle glycogen - but the evidence for this is inconclusive
Other views suggest that it is cortically stimulated in response to lower glycogen levels as a survival reflex - but again, this is by no means certain.
In practice - if you pace your race well in accordance with how and what you've trained for - and keep your brain well fuelled with glucose, there is a good chance you won't experience the 'Wall'. But 26.22 miles is a very long way!!
Shhhhhh!
The food issue in that event is going to be an interesting one. Trying to get in enough carbohydrate straight away (the 20 minute window, which will actually be quite important for this) enough Protein and Fat for recovery - AND appropriate refulling for the next day!!!!
Can't wait though
Really excited about it
You're mad!
Seriously, though, that's one hell of a challenge. Good luck with it! I shall be fascinated to hear how you get on.
Velociraptor and me are blogging about it, slo sho.
The link to that is in my profile
An interesting thread which has left me a little perplexed.
I did my first half (at the age of 48) at the end of last year. The Clowne half is pretty hilly and I was pleased to be on course to finish a few minutes either side of the two hour mark. Then came a long steep hill just after the 10 mile mark. After topping the hill i really slowed down finishing in 2.17. It was pure bloody mindedness that kept me going.
Was this a fuel issue I wonder?
Next half booked for Retford in 4 weeks so it would be useful to sort this by then.
I regularly train at around 9 miles without need of fluid or foods.
Advice and opinion welcomed from all you old hands!