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Given the fact that Germany is in a better situation than the uk to withstand the r word, due to being in the euro. Why aren't all the unemployed workers in this country going there right now and taking advantage of the EU that has been set up for the very reason of getting people from other parts of Europe working together, doing business and not having little wars? If someone is a skilled worker and there is a job they should get it. It's that simple.
If there was a surplus of skilled people unemployed in this country I would take your point even if I disagreed with it. There isn't! There is a growing number of unskilled worker's at the moment. If they want a job they should work for one, ever here or somewhere else in the EU. This argument has only just resurfaced as a front for racism because of people playing on peoples fears and is as ridicules is it is stupid. Even now farmer's are hiring people from Poland for labouring work around Boston for the simple reason that the local unemployed don't want the jobs because they feel its beneath them!
The recession works well and focusing people's fears and bigotry but does little with the problem with people finding jobs that will only be solved by then getting off there backsides and looking instead of complaining that somebody else is doing better than them because they are.
Florian please don't feel that the views explessed by Roar are the same as the rest of the uk. Because they arn't. Which is something that Roar and other like him are going crazy about at the moment.
Anyone want the place bet's on how long it is before all this get's on Red watch? Not been mentioned in dispatches for a while. I must be getting old.
I'm all for localised economic activity, but how local is local?
The world is our locale now, and the blinkered attitude that says "he should have the job because he lives nearer to me than him" just smacks of small minded protectionism and prejudice.
The recession is neither here nor there. Frankly it p*sses me off when people use this sort of argument to justify their desire to maintain a status quo that is monumentally tipped in favour of us in Western Europe. Like I said in another thread, look at our standard of living and look at how hard we work for it, then compare that to the life of a miner in South Africa, or a farmer in Brazil.
We've all got the right to seek out gainful employment, so I'm with Cake on this. If someone wants to slag us off then let them - they'll just be revealing the hate that consumes them. You won't be happy until you've got dominion over everyone else, and then on your death bed you'll realise you were still miserable all along.
Good luck Florian - hope things work out for you.
There is in the world one country that has the protectionist policies described by Roar at present. It's a big place, had a until recently a modernist economy for the region, and it's call Zimbabwe. Even if some of the people agree with what's been discussed on this thread do you want our home to be turned into that kind of mess? Roar while I don't doubt your sincerity about what your saying I do fundamentally disagree with what you are saying both morally and also in a practical economic sense and if we ever become that kind of country it will be over my dead body.
Sorry shouldn't post after a pint in the pub.
Does this mean that all of the foreign workers who have been here for years paying taxes etc, are now expected to go back to where they came from because there is a recession so that English/British people can have their jobs?
You keep banging on about jobs at the expense of British workers and I just don't get it. Florian appears to be a pretty exceptional runner seeking work in a running shop or as a coach, as is his right under the law.
I can't see that anyone will be sacked to make room for him, so what's your beef? It's a level playing field, and people get jobs on merit. Are you seriously suggesting that Florian be refused a job in a running shop so it can go to a less qualified British person? Where is the fairness in that to a potential employer?
I bet you would soon employ him if you needed his specialist skills in your own business.
Hmmm, I wasn't going to post but ..................
I'm an employer in the service industry. All of our full timers are now from Eastern Europe. This has come from natural wastage and no-one has been let go because of them. We have British university students who work for us but as soon as they've qualified they're off. All of the Europeans that work for us have degrees and one a doctorate
This is a huge generalisation but the people from Eastern Europe that we employ, never phone in sick (they work through a man cold), never phone in with a hangover or bad period, never need a spliff or fag break, never take time off as they want to go to the pub or a party, they don't spend huge amounts of time in the toilet texting nor do they get called away from work because their friend has been dumped.
In a nutshell they want to work, they want the money. Not just to go out on a Saturday night or spend 2 weeks on the beach but to build a house or buy some land.
The eastern Europeans are out competing us in the service industry job market.
I think you will, if you read back, find plenty of intelligent arguments against it.
And if nothing else, what you are trying to suggest is illegal,
I agree Nam,
"...the young people who fly in here and take the jobs deprive older people who live here of work......."
I don't understand what's stopping British young people taking these jobs from British older people in your example. Older people, and I am one, need to make themselves marketable, re-train if necessary. I know this. I have changed industry in the last year. Don't blame their unemployment on other people.
SR, as a human being you are entitled to your opinion, and to express it here, but what I strongly object to is your patronising sarcastic response to all those against you - referring to Florian, also a human being with the same rights as you, as "luvvie", and "German friend", is simply condescending. You must accept that not everyone will agree with you. Putting your point across aggresively, will not encourage anyone to agree with you. You lose all credibility by behaving in this way.
I also asked you to be succinct before, but clearly you're not actually listening, or reading, the other posts. In debate, which I assume this is, the best arguments are posed in short, accurate ways. I became so bored with your same point being expressed over and over again, I gave up reading them.
The simple truth of the matter - my opinon, so please respect it - is that our economy is in turmoil - FACT. But, let's look back 2 years or so, when as a nation, we were only too happy to let immigrants come into our country and do the jobs we weren't prepared to do. Whether you like it or not, we're part of the EU, which bases itself on the free movement of people, trade, services and capital, and this includes other nationalities working in our country. Adhering to your argument, perhaps we should close all the car factories in the UK that aren't British, as they should give work to their own nationalities first.
I'm sorry, but to me, and many others, your argument doesn't hold together.
"He just hears what he wants to hear"
let SR live in the pit of their own despair and let this thread quietly die rather than give them more rant room - the person clearly lives off inflaming others
it wasn't Popsider who posted about employing Brits - it was PizzaMan who also said he does employ Brits, yet they do not stay in the job unlike his eastern European employees
Florian has come here to be with his g/f - hence he is searching for a job - as has been pointed out to you many times yet you choose to ignore this fact.
as Nam said - "you hear what you want to hear" - you don't read what's written, you don't listen to what's said, and you pursue your own limited agenda
you have yet to make a valid point that holds up under scrutiny so that's why I suggest don't give you any more rant room - you have nothing else to add beyond your one eyed approach to a German seeking a job in the UK.
if you want to rant and rail about the unfairness of the situation as you see it, take it up with those who make the laws but leave Florian search for a job as he has every right under British and EU regulations to do so
goodbye
I can't see that Popsider has even posted on this thread, SR. Maybe I've missed it.
Pizza Man did say:
But I can't see where he's said that he refuses to employ British workers.
Edit: You beat me to it, fb!
SR
I do have sympathy for the British Jobs for British workers argument. It is though up to the people to influence government on this issue. No use targetting 1 person on a running forum who is doing what current law allows. I wish the OP luck in finding one. He is not personally robbing a British worker of a job -government policy and EU rules are the problem. I do see some unpleasantness arising out of this recession regarding the scarce good of jobs. My fear is that concern for british workers for british jobs can be hijacked y the far right -now that wont do in my eyes. I expressed my sympathies in anotherr thread and got accused of racism and i am far far from racist.
To others I say SR was expressing a concern that many do have. You dont have to agree but there is no need for this ganging up stuff.
Other European countries are expressing concerns too.
There's certainly no ganging up, it's just that the majority don't agree, that's all. My gripe is the patronising of a fellow human being, without backed up argument and certainly no regard for the feelings of others (I have been personally offended due to my background). Yes, his opinions have angered me and we should be able to express our own opinions back. If we don't, then opinions that lead to hatred are allowed to be aired to the point that we're frightened to stand up for the opposite viewpoint. Far from ganging up, it's simply a case of almost no-one jumping to his, or her, defence...
And again, back to the point of the thread... Any joy, Florian?
fair enough juana. The patronising of a fellow human being aint nice. I genuinely hope Florian gets a job and any other looking. I am personally worried about the future and the far right grasping at a lot of insecurity among British workers. It did seem one sided on here though there is food for debate.
maybe the real problem are the greedy bankers and global Capitalism
All Workers unite and stop them -power to the people citizen!
Roar many of us have tried to debate with you why the idea's you've said are a bad for our economy and would actually be bad for British workers and jobs in a modem financial system and the word globalised economy has raised it's head. The simple truth is that if we try to fence in jobs and don't let the market decide the state of the economy it would mean that the free trade and movement of worker's that have produced some of the highest standards of living anywhere in the world for the last few years would be poleaxed easily. All the investment by foreign company's would go elsewhere very quickly and the British work force would stagnant because the free flow of ideas and practices of worker's would be locked in. In short while people maybe concerned by the short team job market the long team effects of what your saying would be horrendous. If you want another point please have a look at the USA were they imposed tax's on imported steel into the country in a attempt to protect the American steel industry. The net effect of this was that the American car industry got hammered with it because under the globalised system used by them, Britain and anyone who has any impact of British jobs they imported car parts and materials from elsewhere in the globe. This short team election method is even now causing problems for there economy because some of the companies involved simply closed there factories and moved elsewhere in the world. Every argument you've put on here has had a counterpoint raised and not answered by yourself. Even if you disagree please argue the points raised instead of trying to make us all think something different was said. This just isn't getting through is it? I'm a grown up I don't expect you to agree with my own views but surely can agree about what actually works to help British people get jobs instead of idealism ever for the left or the right?
Guys and girls I've been bitting my lip and holding back part of my arguments for this one because for one thing I think this threads been hijacked enough by the rest of us while Florian has just been trying to get a job and also self-awareness of my own political views means I've been trying but probably failing to not start giving a lecture to you all about the bad far right. But think it's time to point out a few things, Roar is ever a troll for someone else on here who doesn't want to be tagged with being of the far right which is fare enough or something a little more sinister. Some of the comments put on here have been paraphrased a little to closely to some of the literature of the BMP and some chap you see on the news by the first name Nick. I won't say the full name because I'd near a mirror right now and I've seen the film candyman. It might just be that they heard these quite normally and taken then on board but it's a worry for me.
Ever roar is a genuine chap or lady concerned by British jobs going to none British worker's or someone trying to make it look like the views of the BMP are coming up from the grass root's. I've been quite chuffed by some of the other post's raised by people on here. Some off whom I know through races, trips to the pub and threads are very different to my own. I'm stepping away from this one because frankly I don't think anyone is going to change Roars mind on this and Roar is definitely not going to change mine. With luck they might get bored and leave.
Peace enjoy and to the Germans out there please keep working you both help to make Roars comments a joke, help the British people and also in one case sometimes get a pint in.
Can I just have the last say on the matter?
I've been to Cologne and it has the best whore house in Europe.
Thank you.
Uh..no Coops. Prague, K9.
I win.