How far will 20 - 25mpw get me?

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  • I would work once a week on extending the distance of your longest run whilst still keeping it at a comfortable pace.

    In addition to that, I'd look to do one session based around the pace of your next upcoming race eg if that is a 5k, then 3-5 x 1k @ race pace with 1 min recovery (start at the lower end and work up as you get fitter)

    A third session a week, i would alternate between a session at 3k pace and a session at 10k pace

    eg 3 x 3 x 300m @3k pace with 2 mins and 5 mins recovery

    3 x 1 mile @10k pace with 1 min running recovery (this could be in the course of a longer run rather than a track session)

    Any mileage left over in your 30, just run as recovery miles.

  • Squall, I can do steady runs quicker than 8 minute miling but depends on the distance really.

     Going by the BrianMac calculator, my steady run pace should be 7:07 - 7:19 minute miling but that does feel a bit quick. Are these bulk of 8 minute miling runs more long runs, steady-state runs oe easy runs?

    Easy Runs: 8:00 - 8:30 minute miling
    Tempo Runs: 6:49 - 7:07 minute miling
    Long Runs: 8:00 - 9:00 minute miling. 

    I'm still looking to sort something out, so thanks for the ideas image

  • By the way, Threshold.. what will it improve? Substaining race pace?
  • I've mainly been concentrating on marathons for the last few years....I'll be 31 soon....and over the 16 week training period before the race the most I've ever averaged is 26 miles. My times are;

    10k = 39:19

    1/2 M = 1:31:27

    Mara = 3:10:12

    My week will mainly consist of a speedwork session, one or two runs between 5 and 12 miles and a long run at the weekend, gradually increasing it to 20 miles. The average would be higher if I didn't always have to have a week or two off with illness or injury. I always listen to my body....if I don't feel well enough to run then I don't!

    Mike

  • So you do 25 mpw and most of that comes from speedwork?

    As it may do you good, it wouldn't for me. Steady miliage is what most knowledgable runners are advising me. I think it's the peridoization way of training, where you train properly instead of going straight into hill repeats, intervals etc... structure, base, speedwork (that correct?)

    I have come across runners who have focused on their base over the winter period and are now doing speedwork. Impressive runners too, it's what I may consider instead of focusing on the sharpening tools too soon.

    I don't feel very comfortable running at 7 minute pace at the moment. Though I can complete 5k with an average pace of around 6:30 pace, 7 minute pace feels tough! I really do think maybe I need to add in some more miliage.

    Does speedwork improve your base? It's what I was told, but I thought they were two different things..

  • Sorry Mike didn't read your post properly. Though all you ever done was speedwork. image
    These days will not change though;

    Friday - Rest Day
    Saturday - Hard run (threshold or tempo whatever the difference)
    Sunday - LSR (1hr30)

    But can't make my mind up with these days;

    Monday - day after a long run should be 'easy run'?
    Tuesday - not sure whether to get the miliage in or do a speed session
    Wedensday - after a tiring tuesday, maybe a 'easy run'
    Thursday - same as tuesday, not sure whether should do intervals or do a comfortably hard long run

    When you ask what I'm aiming for, well right now - just to get a strong base level of fitness so I'm strong in most distances up to 10k.. or even half mara. I will come to something in the end, I can assure you of that!

  • It's always impressive to hear of people who put a small amount of work in and get a lot of results back... but it doesn't happen for anyone and everyone.

    If you put lots of miles in... you'll be good at every distance from 5k - 1/2M without having to tailor your programme too much to any of these distances.

    In fact I rather fancy that if you get into a comfortable routine of 60-70mpw year-round, then you'll essentially be fit for every distance over 5k and probably just about be in shape for a half-decent marathon.

    You want the day after a long run to be an easy run.
  • Done just over 1hr steady - 8.1 miles. The nice weather made it rather tough for myself. It was a flat route though, I need to find some hills!

    My only problem now is deciding what to do tommorow! Whether it be an easy run or a tempo run.. image

  • MACbMACb ✭✭✭
    I haven't read all the replies here but I am a less than 20 mile per week runner with a sub 40 min 10k pb as of Sunday, never done a 5k but run 19:20 as part of a 10k. My runs are normally quite hard but still comfortable, I do mainly off road with hills as part of the course. I do no speed, intervals of recovery runs at the moment. I do aim to up my mileage, and maybe add some speed work, but at the moment i am doing 2 to 3 runs a week around 10-15k. Not sure how much improvement is possible on my current regime but I have improved from last year, so i'll see how I go. It is always interesting to see how different people train.
  • Hi - this is a great thread, very informative. I have a question about mileage. I've been running for a couple of years and I've done 2 marathons, both around the 3h40 mark. Average mileage in training must have been around 35M/week with a max of around 50M/week. I'm currently on 30M/week and I'm just coming back from injury (shinsplints- I overdid it in the new year).

    So, I've just got what looks like a very good book called 'Advanced Marathoning' and I'd like to follow one of their schedules. In the book there are 3 schedules: up to 55M/week, up to 70M/week and over 70M/week. Should I do the up to 55M/week or go up to 70M/week? I have plenty of time before Sept/Oct to build up the mileage, but I'm concerned that it's too soon for me to go up to that distance. Is it safer to do the 55M schedule this time and build to 70M next year?

  • Given that your maximum rpevious mileage has been 50mpw and that you are recovering from shin splints, I would advise the 55 mpw schedule.
  • Marty B, could you tell us your weekly program as I'm very interested to see your long run. I'm happy with my program though, think focusing on base before speedwork is important as it works for the elites, though some clubs race all year round so their members will be focusing on a bit of everything but not sure how benifital that is compared to what yifter told me about periodization training which I've read up on and it makes a LOT of sense!

    I am going to keep some speedwork though, maybe one track session a week and one tempo run a week with the rest being steady and easy runs to help improve my base. I feel ok now after my run earlier, but the hot weather does make it tougher than normal.

  • Squall just to note, when you got sub 40 for the 10 in Eastleigh, what was you doing for training? I ask this obviously as you got a impressive pb there. I could read back to that thread, but it's massive!
  • Got in 6 weeks or so where my lowest mileage was 35 miles... and highest was just over 50. A few weeks in the high forties. Didn't do any speedwork, just steady running... and a long run at the weekend.

    Oh and ran as many days as possible (7 days a week where it was practical). I also did doubles on quite a few days.
  • Because I read on that post about you doing speedwork such as 10 x1k, this is speedwork! Or are you talking about after a certain period where you got closer to the race, you gave up speedwork and decided to concentrate on base?

    So with 7 days a week, was it pretty much like steady run, easy run, steady run, easy run etc?
    Don't worry, I am not trying to copy anyone elses training program here, just looking to learn as much as possible to see what's best for myself.

  • Good thread, I would doubt that the answer is solely in doing big mileage, there has to be some "speedwork" in there. What I want to know is how you can run 100 mpw, could ppl who run in around this give an idea of their weekly program.

  • I did all my runs as "steady" and some felt easier than others... depended on the time of day and how I was feeling at the time (food/sleep etc.)

    I used 8:30 as a benchmark pace, and attempted not to ever be running much faster than this. Even on the 50 mile week, I felt pretty fresh most days and my legs rarely if ever felt sore.


  • So you mainly ran 8:30 pace for all of your runs for a few months then manage a sub 40 10k which is around 6:20 pace! Astonishing! Guess you ran some hilly routes and done some tempo runs too...
  • All my running was done on hilly routes, but I didn't really do any tempo runs.

    I did have a 10k time trial a few weeks before eastleigh though...
  • Twixbar - exactly what I.m thinking atm, running 100 mpw at steadyish pace doesn't mean you can run 2 min / mile quicker in a race surely!
  • Well Stefan, it's proved it can obviously. I think if you add in routes which are hilly then that'll definitely improve your cv, strenght and endurance.
  • I can run 72 seconds for 400m... which means I potentially have the speed for a 4'50" mile.... as far as im concerned, that's all the speed I need as a distance runner.

    What I can't do however, is hold 6'00" mile pace for an hour....

    So it's my endurance that's the weak link. My aerobic capacity.

    And how do you build that? Lots of aerobic work. As far as im concerned, 8 hours a week training is going to be better than 4 hours a week... and the best way of doing the most hours uninjured is to mainly focus on steady miles.

    Steady doesn't mean easy... but I just don't see the need for higher-intensity intervals and the like. The impact they have on my basic speed is minimal... and the impact they have on my endurance is minimal. And as we've established, it's my endurance that needs the improvement.

    Get up to a regular 60mpw for a few months, and tell me i'm wrong...
  • A lot of sense said there Squall.

    Like you, my speed is good. I could probably run a 5:30 mile, I'm quick on my intervals but when it comes to anything over 5k it's where I start to slack off.

    As yifter has said, I've got a poor lactic threshold and I know for a fact my aerobic capactiy isn't that great. My 2 mile PB translate into a near sub 19 5k, but I'm finding it tough to manage a sub 20 5k. I'm seconds away, a flat course I may succeed, but it doesn't hide the fact that it's my endurance is lacking. It's going to be very interesting to see what my 10k & half mara time would be. I reckon my 10k time will be 42 - 43 minutes and my half time will be 1hr40

    Squall, you near the 60mpw yet? I think one hard session a week won't do you no bad though, but if your finding your improvements with the steady miliage then don't fix what is not broken. Think everyone is different to how they adapt to certain training techniques...

  • Squall - I know that upping the mileage would certainly help, currently in around the 40 - 50 mpw, my prob is that without doing 2 sessions a day I will never be able to get up to the 100 odd mpw. Prob is finding the time and being able to recover from the harder sessions. Currently i'm doing one speedwork session, 2 tempo type runs, 2 easy runs of around 7 miles, and a long run in around 16 miles, with a leg weight session and a pile of core work through the week. Yet my times are not much better than they were a year ago......... image
  • Twixbar - my main thing is half marathon, i have a 1:19 from Gothenburg last year. 10 k - 36:30 ish, although was in terrible conditions and have run 35:20 in a training run, and 5k 17:18
  • MACbMACb ✭✭✭

    Twixbar, my approach to running is fairly basic really, I try to run 2 to 3 times a week. I used to do more road running but now seem to do mainly off road, decent tracks around my local woods. So typically i'd do a 45min-1h run on Saturday or Sunday, good pace and hilly, i'm trying to increase the time gradually for half marathon training later in the year. But this run has a good hill, inlcuding about 3k solid uphill, I love it. Apart from that I will try and run maximum twice throughout the week, about 40-50mins max, again off road and good pace, normally about 10k.

    In addition I do circuit training for 1h on Monday and body pump in the gym on Thursday. I do try to keep active the rest of the time, maybe cycle to work or try to fit in more gym sessions, although recently I haven't been to the gym much. I was doing rpm at the gym, this seemed really good for my cardio, but I haven't done it for ages.

    Anyway, my running pace is similar, but I am trying to introduce slower longer runs, but I tend to just get fitter and run the same pace but for longer, I am very one paced. I have only been running a few years but feel far stronger this year, maybe due to the miles in my legs, I am also mentally stronger during races, I endure pain more easily, I guess this is due to familiarity, been there before! I really think the undulating terrain I run on has helped alot also.

    Last year I got a heart rate monitor and tried to work within zones, but now I use percieved effort. I know my running plan is not typical, but it is working for me so far, I have improved on last year, but I know I need more structure, I probably can't keep improving on 2 top 3 hard runs a week. I also rest when necessary, this is important, the odd week of can be very beneficial. 

    hope this answers your questions. 

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