Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Cool...It would be great if you and Fizz came, in whatever capacity. Wish I was coming to Dublin
.
xx
So ATM, might join you in Venice in October. YOu up for it girlie?
Fizz, why dont you try for a sub 4 in the spring and if you manage it, your attempt in the autumn will surely be easier. Correct me if i am wrong but have you gone faster in each of your previous marathons. What are the times for the age groups for Boston in relation to females aged 44 and 45.
Are you not going to Paris in the spring.
Women 40-44 have qualifying time of 3 hours 50.
Women 45-49 need only (!) 4:00 hours.
Deptuy Golden Pig I dont think I would b able to make it to sub 4 by Spring. Im not 45 til August so I m not sure whether the qualifying time has to be done at that age or whether they will accept a 4 hour finish while still 44 , if you are 45 on the race day.
If you know what I mean.
So far, I have done 4.35 or is it 4;36 In Paris ( cant remember)
Helsinki was 4:24 and
Dublin was 4:20 but was on target for about a 4;10 until I had two freaky forced stops for about 4 mins each.
I didnt apply for Paris as I just couldnt stand the up and down off kerbs for 25+ miles, trying get around people, having my heels stood on,Nearly getting my shins shredded by a bike going through the crush at the bastille , doing shuttle runs to get past trios running together etc, again. It was the least enjoyable run I have ever done since I first put runners on. City sights were fab but the congestion was a total nightmare. Wouldnt go back. Except as a supprter
Fizz...i think what i meant was at least you would have 2 bites of the cherry if you did a mara in the spring aswell as autumn. Your times are coming down very nicely and i would be happy with them. I am going back to Paris to settle a debt as that is the only mara i have attempted and through injury turned out to be a 5hr+ run. I know i am better than that, so that is why i will be back there in April.
I think when you have done 3 maras as you have then you can compare the positives and negatives. Anyway, i am going for a sub4 and will be stood with ATM in the green pen. Hope youre listening ATM.
Fizzy-go - I'm with Mr.Pig on this one. Sure the Boston qualifier is easier once you've gone past your next birthday, but a spring mara is a proper launch pad for making the goal. The additional training of a spring marathon will probably be necessary to take those last 20 mins off your PB. If you have no spring goal, then chances are you wont carry the running discipline through the winter and you could even find yourself further back than you wanted to be for your autumn marathon, specially if you keep on with the munchies (like you say you are!).
For those that enjoy reading about your running training, I've just finished the book "Advanced Marathoning" by Peter Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas. Highly recommended.
TD & NGUG......I dont want to come across as ignorant but do you learn anything from these books. I am always one for learning new skills and bettering myself but there is so much advice out there about running i never know where to turn to. Do these books give you advice that you can put into practice on a regular basis and are showing results.
If you got another book now, would it contradict anything that you had previously put into practice or read.
Hope this comes across ok.
Gold Pig - the Murakami book is more of a light read. Its about a chap who sold his jazz bar in order to devote himself to writing. He started getting a bit fat sat there writing every day so started running - running amongst other things a solo marathon in Athens in the searing heat. He been running for I think 25 years and runs two marathons a year - alot of the book is very sensible philosophical views on running. The Lore of Running Book looks more of a technical book having read some of the pages on Amazon not sure I can handle all the detail!! As Ms NGUG says cant you read something other than about bl**ming running!! Find it quite interesting reading different opinions on running take a view on alot of whats said but all learning curve.
I was enjoying that....read some more to me please
I think my problem is i cant get into books, the only thing i read is the RW magazine. i think everybody has advice to give, even myself and i know jack s**t..
I do agree with you that it is all a learning curve and that is why we listen to TD on his thread.
Hey GP, I'm technically illiterate at best. In the sense that I hardly ever read books. I have a litany of books I've started and never finished. My favourite unfinished book is "The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People" by Stephen Covey.
So I think I'm with you on the being very choosy about what I read. In my work I read hundreds of articles every week as I head up a research/ intelligence team. So I'm constantly thinking/ processing stuff and my head is normally turned to pulp by the time I come home. Which is why I enjoy physical activity so much.
The book I recommended I read in two days. It starts with explaining the science of physiology in relation to running. Basically, it answers the questions "Why does this training make me a better runner". Then it goes on to explain a lot of "How to do marathon running". Plenty of practical advice and certainly well informed. Every 5 or 6 pages they insert a personal story of a famous athlete, or use them as an example to illustrate a point they were just making. So it's not like you get bogged down in tonnes of theory.
I don't remember ever reading some advice in a book that contradicted another one, but even if they did, I would fully expect them to justify why. Anyway, I think I am pretty used to hearing conflicting opinions about stuff and I reserve this place in my head to make up my own mind, or to test things out for myself. You can't believe everything you read, specially from bluffers like me on the internet. As Leeds Rob pointed out, I probably am that 53 y.o unemployed geezer from Kidderminster who wears tracks suits to watch daytime tv and cross-dresses at the weekend.
GP - I know j**ksh*t too - I love the RW magazines they are so down to earth normal people.. the Haruki Murakami book I have loved this guy is so great his first comments re running are along the lines of when he first tried he couldnt run long about twenty minutes or so that left his heart pounding and legs shaking. He hadnt exercised for a long time. His body gradually started to accept the fact it was running and the increase in distance - he ended up being a 3.30 minimum marathon guy - his breathing gradually got more regular and he felt less embarrassed about it all. He bought a stopwatch and read a beginners book on running he said that "this is how you become a runner." Occasional comments on why he failed in races "not enough training..etc. " v.much commonsense, good one for the Xmas List
Love reading - really glad I have instilled this in my kids - used to buy books as presents for them and both of them really love reading. OH used to hate reading too seems to have overcome this in latter years. Find it a bit difficult myself to give the time to reading I should - too many other things to do - holidays v.good for catching up and on the train.. if I dont fall asleep
Ok Tricky will add that to my Xmas list - 6 weeks to go to Xmas apparently.....
Love a good read myself. Especially tucked up in bed. Lore of running is like an encyclopaedia- get it in the libraary and hold onto your cash for pleasure and inspiring stuff.
I intend to do more than one marathon next year, children allowing, but thought it best if I use the earlier ones for test runs and then just go all out in the autumn. I had considered Venice but as you may see on the paris board- FFS. there is just oo much unstable ground for my liking.
Cant decide what or where to go though. So many marathons, so many places!!
Hello, chums..
Today's LSR was....5k.
..Well, I can only improve.. Sub-4 seems a tad ambitious. As does actually running 26+ miles.
Fizz, if you're really going all out for a Sub-4, what about Berlin?
I'm the only adult in Western Europe who can't drive and so spend half my life on public transport. Over decades, this has let me read a ton of stuff.I gave up reading in English years ago ( Pretentious? Moi? Yo? )..apart from RW, of course. Since my languages are rubbish, I have a very hazy view of world politics( gleaned from the foreign Press), cook terrible meals ( mistranslation and/or trouble with Metric measurements) and have a huge library of stuff I'd never read in English( crime novels/trashy romances ) Fortunately, I'm so old I did read some good stuff back in the day . The Murakami title reminded me of the sublime pleasure of Carver's stories...* Off into literary dwam ...*
Oh, yes, running. More ks to follow... I hope.
Fizz - thanks for confirming what I thought about the Lore of Running - will stick to lighter reading... thought that the bit I read on Amazon was a little heavy going..
Would agree with ATM Berlin is well known to be a PB course - may be not as pretty as Venice.
ATM - I remember being able to read. It was before my brain got mashed up with work. I recall a holiday in Corfu where some people came to complain to my wife (really!). "Will you tell him to sit down! He's tiring us out just watching him". I was doing an hour of translating ancient Greek passages from the New Testament, and then doing an hour of diving/ swimming, to counterbalance the mind-body thing.
Fizzio - have you been to the website Marathon Guide? It's the widest listing of races I've seen, in date order. And of course you can have a cheapie visit to Brussels by coming to stay chez moi et Mdme. TD
NGUG - am still bowled over by your 10K time. I think you have to come up with some deeper reflection on how you came to do it. What do you think has been working in your training? Please tell.
Can you confirm the actual 10K time you ran NGUG please. I thought you said 43m30s. That equates to a speed of 13.79km/h or a running pace of 4:21mins/ km.
The point of intervals is that you run them above your sustainable speed (i.e. impossible to do for 40 minutes), so as to increase VO2Max.
But it seems to me that what your trainer is setting out to do, is getting you to run just above, and just under your Lactate Threshold limit (which is done at a lower HR than VO2Max). That's why there's no real recovery, just a slight dropping off in speed. It's just to allow you enough of a breather so you can keep going, but maintaining very high levels of lactate in your blood (which is why he doesn't want you to stop, because that removes lactate very quickly).
My point of confusion is that you were able to run significantly faster in the race. Your treadmill pace would allow you to finish the 10K race 4½ to 6½ mins slower. Running in cooler air and a bit of race adrenaline will help you go a bit faster than your treadie training, but you went so much faster.
Whichever way I look at it, I'm impressed. Doing a gut-busting 40 min session is hard work (and if you are struggling with it, then it is much more likely to be impacting your VO2Max than LT). Or, you ran the race of your life (but you said you stopped and were hanging around a bit). Which is why I am wondering if I got your time right. Sorry if all you heard was "bla bla bla".
Yes, work will definitely mash the ole' brain up, TD. * Your post to NGUP IS the New Testament in Ancient Greek, surely?
*
I prefer to understand it as you having grown invisible, heavenly, wings, NGUG. Go, that woman!
Fizz, do not read TD's Marathon list late at night, credit card and Aer Lingus schedules to hand ...
Tricky - no I didnt do it in 43.30mins - sorry!!! Must have missed that. My watch time was 43-45 mins didnt have my Garmin on as Mr NGUG had it and no clock at the end which was a bit weird - my actual official time 47mins which equates with your figures of my timings on the treadmill I think or thereabouts. Thanks for the explanation re the running thresholds lactic acid I did wonder what was happening there.. no still very much a sub-4 person!!
Thanks NGUG, makes much more sense to me now. Even so, your effort was still fabulous. Your race pace was 12.77kmh or 4:42m /km which is faster than your training has been. I reckon you must have been digging deep by the end. Well done.
The Jack Daniels race predictor says that you should be capable of a 3h36 marathon with that level of fitness extrapolated out. Way to go!!
TD - coolll - didnt mean to confuse - should have read all the posts and instead of trying to do half a dozen things at once
Three major hills so quite pleased at that pacing. The downhills helped too so I guess thats where I made the time up. Didnt really feel like I was killing myself save for two of those blooming hills actually felt alot easier than some of my other runs strangely. On my three 10ks have gone 58, 52, 47 so imagine that I could probably lose a couple of minutes when concentrating on the next - Mick always asks me what I am aiming for this time it was sub50 - presumably you get to a plateau where it gets difficult to go much quicker but would look for sub-43/5 next is that realistic?
Hi NGUG. Well, it never hurts to keep going faster over 10K but perhaps that is not your ultimate goal. If I was to advise you, it would be to now extend the distance at which you can maintain such pace. And that isn't something that a PT is likely to do in a gym, simply because it takes much longer.
If sub-4 is your ultimate goal, then maintain at least one of those high quality LT sessions on the treadmill each week, but make sure you still do one good LSR too (over 20K). Then to glue those two things together, a 10-15K run at target race pace.
As a general rule, each 4 weeks you can assess how well you are coping with these training challenges. Only increase the difficulty of the training once you believe your body has properly adapted to the training stress, so that the effort is relatively easy for you. I'm guessing that you'll be moving over into a proper training schedule in about 5 weeks time anyway, so ask your PT to explain the whole programme to you, what phases it has, what the purpose of each phase is, and how you should be feeling during it. It would bother me if I was only told a week, or each day at a time, what I had to do, with little understanding of why...
TD - that sounds sensible. I have been doing an hour long or two hour long LSRs on alternative weeks rather than specific distances and seeing how far I can go in that time keeping a note of my speeds etc. This is an intermediate thing until I start my proper training in five weeks time. Mick was also a bit worried about my hip still to make sure that I didnt over do the distances at this stage - but it actually seems practically 100% now. Felt it a little bit on my last LT training session.
I did actually say to Mick last time we trained for Paris and he asked me for feedback afterwards that I didnt like not knowing what was coming up and would have liked to see the whole picture of the schedule so I will have a chat with him about that again to remind him. I think its easy sometimes just to do whats set out for you as you dont have to think about it especially when you are working full time and have a couple of kids - no excuse I know... thanks for the helpful advice
Oh yes, injuries change everything. Listen to your body is always Rule #1. As for LSR's, do try to remove the temptation to push them. One of the purposes of an LSR is to teach your body to run more economically, reducing the amount of calories you burn per km. If I was to slightly modify how you train, it would be to see how far you can go over a set period of time, without exceeding a certain HR.
As soon as you start chasing distance goals in a set period of time, the HR goes up and you don't achieve the intended training benefits.
Tricky / NGUG....thanks for the feedback on the books, they do sound interesting what you are reading as does all the talk about LT pacing/ running.
I feel i have a question coming up but havnt the time to type it as it will no doubt be a long winded affair on my part.
NGUG....Well done with the 10k time, i think you scared a few peeps when you said 43mins.
Gold Pig - no timer at the end had to rely on my watch time (as in posting) and Mr NGUG had the Garmin (really need to get more than one) pleased to be fastest woman in my age group (40-49) when results finally on line 7th fastest woman overall. In fact near the beginning had given up really stopped and waited for Mr NGUG and fiddled about far too much. V.hilly course but great fun once I got going and loads of amazing 'tashes and absolutely great atmosphere. Would definitely do it again but might try and concentrate a little bit more next time!!!
The running book I've just read says the following zones for each type of run:
LSR 74-84%
Tempo (Lactate Threshold) 82-91%
Intervals 93-95%
Race Pace for marathon 79-88%
Recovery runs < 76%