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Anybody think I'm being over ambitious?
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Ah, so its the 'bullying' and 'running snobbery' response again!
Stop reading things into comments that arent said!
Danowat has summed things up perfectly - you cant keep banging your head against a brick wall - it hurts!
The whole thread has not a hint of 'wishing George To Fail' - where have you even got the idea from?
It is full of advice of how to go about achieving his goal and how to structure his approach to doing so.
well we're going to have to agree to disagree parkrunfan- to me, the london ,marathon is so clearly an event that encourages thousands of runners to take part in running when they might have otherwise not done so. many of them then continue with running. (i could probably name 10 people i know off this forum for whom that is the case) and it raises huge amounts of money for charity, i cant really see who misses out? there are places for anyone that bothers to do enough training to get a gfa. or if they cant be bothered they can run another marathon, there are plenty of them!
incidentally i don't agree about the 2-3 years to run a marathon either, its only 26 miles innit? i think someone could probably train from scratch to run a 100 mile race in 3 years.
i'm sorry you think i'm reading things into things that haven't been said, but i think you're failing to notice things that have been implied! i didnt really mean that people on here are wanting him to fail, although i genuinely felt that at the race i did. but i do feel that people saying "respect the distance" gives me the impression that they feel their own achievements are diminished in some way by people doing the london marathon in 7 hours or whatever. it really isnt a big deal in the grand scheme of things is it?
George, you are so very bloomin' wrong you are in danger! It WILL affect your training right from the very start. Trust me, I've done it!!
I've done the Cambridge diet, I've done 500 cals a day. Running ANY distance burns it very fast and it will become quite apparent very, very quickly that you cannot do the diet AND this training. You stated that a doctor said he was happy for you to do both. Sorry mate but I find that extremely hard to believe so much so in fact that I would consider a comlpaint to the GMC for the doctors advice is so wrong it is putting you at risk!
You are so right though it IS a challenge but don't assume we are all "runners" we are not, that is why we are surfing the beginners threads!
You are saying that you are not finding the support and asking for ideas on how you CAN do this. Everyone is saying that you can, just not this year! That IS support in itself it just is not what you want to hear.
YOU are not listening to the advice that YOU have asked for !!!!
I am really starting to believe that this is a troll post!
It would be most remiss of me (as a mildly experienced marathon runner - about to do number 6) to encourage him to do something which I genuinely believe will not be good for him and will not be any fun at all. That would simply be wrong.
I would have also offered advice on how to do the enormous task he has set himself, although i really do hope that in a month or two once he starts training properly he will realise that it is more sensible to take a longer term view of things and release himself from his tight timescale.
George, I swing from admiring your guts to wanting to shout 'NO DON'T DO IT'
This whole thread is getting way out of what I got into, so I'm about to duck out of it. George, you asked for advice, when you weren't prepared to listen to it. I have been there and done it, and told you what I think. I have warned you of the physical dangers of what you are about to attempt, and I have warned you of the experiences of those who have finished BEHIND the sweep up vehicles.
I have warned you about the calorie deficiencies in your plan, and I believe you GP has NO IDEA of what he is letting you get into.
I refuse to get into the arguments about run/walk strategy against the 'purist' strategy, although I believe each has its own merits for different characters of participants.
I agree totally about the VLM being a complete charity machine designed to seduce first timers into becoming 'one-timers', and I now ONLY enter marathons which have open direct entry, no ballots, and no bond places, whatever size field they are is irrelevant - (although they are sometimes fairly lonely places at my humble pace).
I have said that I would support you, but I will NOT lend my support to a 'mission' too foolhardy and fraught with physical danger, which your further detail has clearly indicated that this is.
I wish you well in your endeavours.
I will end by advising you on one last issue, which you may, or may not, find interesting. My travel insurance contract includes a clause about dangerous sports exemption, and my life insurance one about premeditated misadventure. I have arranged for the necessary medical evidence to be provided so that I have endorsements including specific cover for marathon running, which my insurer classes as a dangerous activity.
The NHS, in certain areas, has started making claims against insurers where 'misadventure' has been a contributory factor to the need for medical care, and I personally believe it will not be long before marathon running is looked at in this context.
Check your insurance policies, my friend, and anyone else reading this... do you have marathon running as an 'included risk'????
Bye for now ... till the next time....
Personally I don't think that these insurance policies are what they are cracked up to be. I could be insured against war, famine and natural disasters years ago but once I got married they were specifically excluded thereafter.
Sorry off topic but
TISM - are you nimble runner (I have him on my tweet feed)??
If you are on Twitter, find me @MrTISM Give me a tweet so I can find you....
Morning Campers
What a great thread!
George - first off a big congrats on your weight loss! I've just read the whole thread this morning so sorry if I missed this, but are you off the LL diet yet? Before you embark on any kind of exercise regime you really need to nail down a healthy balanced diet. Then you'll need to look into proper sports nutirition if you decide to take on the marathon.
Listen to TISM - he really knows his stuff. To be quite honest you aren't going to get anywhere as near the useful advice he has to offer, elsewhere.
I myself have lost a lot of weight, I'm actually 54% lighter now than before I started running (233lbs > 126lbs), but I didn't have such a high starting weight as you guys, and I've done it very gradually so I haven't had the skin problems that sudden drastic weight loss entails. I didn't even consider doing a marathon until I felt that I could run a half marathon comfortably, and will be attempting my first one this year (Newcastle Town Moor). 2009 is my fifth year of running.
London is the big event, but please, please, consider doing a few half marathons to test the water first. Like everyone else has said - it's not that we dont think you'll get round, because your sheer force of will, will get you round, but it would be so much better for you to take a longer term view of it, and perhaps come out of the other side of the race with a love for running, other than thinking of it as a horrendous experience that you'd never wish to repeat.
I've read it all in one go too Vicki! It's a fascinating thread...
Agree with Vicki, TISM and everyone else about all that's been said, so I won't repeat it. I would like to add a note of caution though (and this is not intended to scare, merely to illustrate)
A few weeks ago whilst I was on holiday, I heard a rumour about a death at a local gym. It took me a while to get any information because it's hardly a great strapline for your fitness centre "come to our gym - it might kill you" is it?
Turns out the gentleman who had passed away had done so whilst on an exercise bike. He was 20 stone and had recently lost a considerable amount of weight. He felt determined to "do more" and hadn't even had an induction, let alone informed his doctor of what he was doing. His heart gave out and he died in the ambulance. The staff had a defib and had tried in vain to save him, but it was too late.
That man ignored advice from people who only meant to help him.
Marathons are HARD, HARD work. When I was training for my first one, the best piece of advice I was given was "just ENJOY it". You can't DO that if you're only just learning to run! I had lots of halves under my belt and had worked my way up from Race for Life, then 10K and then halves. Seems logical to me to build up through the distances and each one seems MUCH more than twice the distance of the last. If I ruled the world, I wouldn't even accept applications from people who haven't done a half marathon for the full 26.2 miles. I know it can be done, but I've got serious reservations about it and I certainly wouldn't insure someone for one. TISM's point about insurance was an extremely valid one. My insurance is loaded for marathons too.
NOBODY is kicking you George. We're trying to make you see that there is a process to go through and you can't really expect to jump to the last stage from the startline without there being consequences.
Interesting thread.
George can I add a view as a beginner runner who went down the charity route in order to run a marathon purly for personal goals.
I did meet my goals. I went from a nothing 15 stone 5 foot 7 non runner and after 30 weeks I ran the LM and raised £3000 for my charity.
Guess what happened after the run. Nothing. Massive depression. I did not run again for 2 years. I ran paris in 2008 and guess what after than run I did not run again for 15 months. Massive depression on that event. I hated it. The whole thing was a chore nothing more.
I hated the training, getting up at 8am on a cold wet or very cold weekend and running for 2 or more hours, and your family hating you for being washed up and useless for the rest of the weekend. It was not worth it.
I am now training for a half marathon and dont want to give up post run but completing the run can lead to massive post run depression. its very common.
Congratulations on your weight loss so far George, that's fantastic!
I know it has been done to death on this thread already but I just wanted to add my concerns that you don't aim for too much, too soon. I started running earlier this year and although I wasn't overweight, I was quite unfit, and I have found that building up gradually is the only way to go, starting with a walk/run programme and have now built up to running 4 miles which I am gradually increasing. My current goal is for a sub-30 5k, which I am now confident of achieving as I can now regularly do that in training, after that I will aim for a 10k. I would like to do a marathon at some stage but I know I'm some way off it yet. 26.2 miles is one hell of a long way and if I was going to do it I would want to give it my best shot and be as well prepared as it is possible to be. I would be very very wary of committing myself to a marathon at this stage, and I don't even have the weight issue to contend with.
It's entirely up to you of course, but I suppose my point is that goals should be achievable, which I'm not 100% sure that yours is. But I'm no expert, good luck with whatever you decide.
I'm curious Koprano, I've not done a marathon yet. But whenever I go for a run I always feel exilerated afterwards and spend the rest of the day on a buzz. I know it's not the same, but when I do 10-12 mile runs I still feel ok for the rest of the day so I still get out with the family.
Do you always feel like this after running? If so, why do you continue? (I'm not having a dig or anything, I'm just curious). I've not heard of anyone suffering like this before, it must really suck.
Dont want to hijack thread but will explain what I meant about hating the training.
The training for a marathon is relentless, long runs take ages. All you care about is running x miles on x day and 3 runs later you run another mile on top of last weeks long run etc etc.
I ran for personal pride, just to say I CAN DO IT. I gave up running after both my marathons as I wanted my life back, I wanted beer and curry and to be able to stay down the pub.
I did all my training on my own. Mile after mile on my own. The only thing I got out of the training was knowing i was on plan.
Being a fat runner is not fun. Do not ignore the mental pain of these super quick thin people going past you, cos it hurts. I resented thin runners who seem to find it so easy when every mile for me was bloody hard. Yes some days I enjoyed the run, but running at night after work in November and december is not fun.
Paris marathon was awful, I trained so hard to beat my London time. Mentally I was in a bad place. My marriage split a few months after. On the day I could not care less about my time once I got left behind by the pacing groups I gave up from mile 13 to 20. It was only at mile 20 that I thought that I could still beat my london time and I had walked most of last 6 miles. I ran those last 6 miles in under an hour to beat the 5 hour mark.
Why did I do it. To escape - get out of the house - time to think. I loved that. I loved the time when I could go out and run, and not even realise you are running, when running became second nature. Midweek 4 / 5 milers were easy I loved those. I hated the long slow runs.
However, I'm afraid I'm going to add to the general consensus that you're doing too much too soon.
I completed my first marathon in May, about 18 mths after taking up regular running. Before I started "running regularly" however I was already fit, went to the gym about 3 times per week, did lots of other sport, normal BMI and at the start of training (ie 18 mths before the marathon) I could already run about 5 miles comfortably.
However, going from being generally fit and doing other sports to being a regular runner training for races was still a big jump. At first I seemed to have constant illness and injury niggles, which really disrupted my training. My first goal was a 10k race in July 08 which I completed in just under 60mins. The first few miles were exceptionally challenging, and I wondered how I'd ever complete the Half I'd entered in October. But I did, and again at the end of the Half the goal of completing a marathon seemed huge and unattainable. The training over the next 6 months was really tough. The jump from half marathon distance to marathon is MASSIVE. For mortals half marathon training probably involves runs of up to about 1.5 - 2hrs. For marathons you're talking about 4hrs plus on the long runs. Running this sort of time and distance in training is really really tough - at times I felt like crying, it's mentally very challenging - on one run I blew up at 15 miles and had to get the tube home, walking was a struggle by that stage! However, it was all worth it in the end, and the feeling when I crossed the finish line at Edinburgh was amazing, my first thought was when's the next one?!
I'm not trying to put you off, just point out some of the realities of training for a marathon. And I wasn't trying to lose weight either - I ate loads more than normal! Just to get round my long runs I took on a serious quantity of energy drinks and gels, which are highly calorific.
If I were you I'd aim for a 5k at the end of this year, a 10k in about May 2010, a Half in Autumn 2010, and a marathon in Spring 2011. Even that will be a huge challenge!
I intend to run many more marathons, but next time I want to be at the point where I can comfortably run 13 miles in my weekly long run before I even start marathon training, as this time I found it so hard to build up the distance past this level. This will mean I can build up the distance to 18 / 20 miles from 13 miles much more slowly over a 4 mth period.
Good luck! Please do keep us updated with your progress, whatever you decide!
Well done on your determination George. It's great that you want to set yourself a goal and work towards it.
One thing that I want to echo is the eating during marathon training. I found it ridiculously hard being constantly hungry during my training and having to eat loads more than I do normally just to feel okay. I put weight on during my training and one of my friends has put on half a stone each time she has done a marathon for the same reason. Post marathon your body is so tired you are unable to do the training, but I found my appetite didn't decrease for a few weeks afterwards so I put weight on then too. I know that some people swear by marathon training for weight loss, but in my experience this doesn't always happen.
Not trying to put you off, but do get some advice about how to handle fuelling during marathon training. Have a look at the Anita Bean Sports Nutrition book.
Thought I would mention, (if it's OK to do so?? - hope I don't offend anyone) that the full story of what I did, and how, is now available in the Book ... From Sofa to Start Line - shipping now from my website
at (link ) No punches pulled - no joke left untold...
Might be worth a read for anyone trying the same sort of thing - or just for a different perspective on running. Reviews are on that site too....
Sorry again if this is 'out of order', but what the hell, I've got to sell them now I've printed them...
They can hardly shoot you for telling us you've written a book TISM, when they mention it in the article in the mag!
I wish you every success with it and I might just have to buy a copy! I spent my morning listening to unfit people telling me I was risking a heart attack by running marathons and it's not what the body is designed to do. I stopped short of telling them that God didn't design their arses to be that size either and doughnuts are NOT one of your five a day!
Koprano - I understand more what you mean now. So for you, running doesn't really come naturally as such. So the long runs are hard, and it was more a case of proving you could do it rather then wanting to. Well done I would say. I enjoy my long runs and look forward to saturday mornings when I know I'm out for a couple of hours in the countryside. I really don't think I could drag myself out there if I didn't enjoy it.
I would still question the wisdom of spending so much time doing something you don't really like, but each to their own I reckon
. You must have a lot of willpower.
I quite enjoy long runs too Rob. It's the tempo ones that get me down sometimes (being a girlie - some times of the month are not pleasant)
Admire those like Koprano who keep plugging away at it...
Love it.
I hate it when people that have no idea stick their oar in. I don't mind taking advice from people in the know, but theres nothing worse then stupid advice from know-it-alls.
My personal pet hate is when smokers start rattling on about health
or the other old chestnut:-
-"I really want to lose weight but can't, I've tried everything"
-"have you tried exercising?"
-"I don't like exercise, but I'm going to try the atkins/cabbage soup/broccoli milkshake/whatever diet"
Thread hijack complete
Sorry george
Just a quick question, when running on roads is there any etiquette that I need to be aware if, as far as cars and vehicles are concerned?
Just for the record Thursday are weigh day and my total loss now stands at 88lbs in 12 weeks. I'll be keeping everyone informed. Plus guys stop worrying about stealing the thread everyone share your thoughts etc!
As for participating in the marathon is concerned there is so much that can happen in the next couple of weeks that it will cone down to how I feel each month...
George, congratulations on your progress to date and your undoubted willpower. You also seem to be a pretty speedy walker which means you could end up quite a speedy runner too when at goal weight so lots to look forward to. As you've said you might walk a marathon have you considered parking VLM for a couple of years and doing someting else more geared to walkers e.g. Beachy Head marathon or one of the Long Distance Walkers Association Challenge events? OK you won't be on telly but the camaraderie and support is fantastic and you won't be finishing alone and unmedalled as has been mentioned. Many excellent fellrunners and endurance athletes use the LDWA events for training and enjoyment and they are accessible to everyone (some pretty fast walkers mind). then you can run VLM when you know you will do well and enjoy the spectacle.
I did my first mara this year (Windermere) and echo all that has been said about the training and the pain, it is unlike anything else and I have been running for several years doing up to halves. I also put on a stone during the process - you simply cannot do this on a diet, the extra nutrition needed both in training and at rest is enormous.
Cars and roads - run into the traffic (right hand side) so you can see the vehicles coming and take evasive action if needed, don't rely on drivers seeing you, and only cross sides at blind bends or rises where they can't. It's irritating but as the weaker party we runners have to take responsibility and do all we can to help drivers see us by wearing reflective gear etc and don't wear an MP3 in traffic.
I got a blister on the back of my heel due to bad trainers which have now been chucked. I read somewhere that I should pop it with a needle, clean it then apply a compeed. Done that but it looks like it's reformed again under the compeed! Plus the area is still sore even with the compeed acting as protection, any ideas what I should do???