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Semanya - man or woman?
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Am I the only one who read that THREE times and was trying to work out if the secretary was fired, an ex of Nam's or had been turned back to blokes?
(tis good stuff this tea....)
It's not even as simple as just the XX/XY thing - other genetic factors can also come into play - someone posted this link on KK's thread in the tri section. Possibly not the same 'condition' as Semanya, even if she does have any 'condition' at all (but what do I know? I'm no expert), but quite thought-provoking.
Whatever the outcome and whatever opinions people have about her appearance, I feel so terrible for the girl. To have your gender questioned at the age of 18, and for it all to be so public, could be really psychologically damaging for her.
this is interesting...with this comment
"Press continued her dominance of both events into the 1966 season, but abruptly withdrew from further international competition when sex testing was introduced at that year's European Championships in Budapest."
she looks gawjus eh??? [bowk]
That is true now under the rules introduced in 2007, the conversation with my friend was a few years ago and I don't know what the previous rules were - he may or may not have been quoting them correctly.
http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENewsDetails.asp?MenuId=MjI0NQ&id=NTQzOA&LangId=1
'The haematological profile was the key outcome of the Paris Summit on Doping in Cycling organised by the French Ministry of Sport, the UCI and the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) on 22 and 23rd October 2007'
Thanks for the clarification though.
- we never dated
- she used to be my secretary
- she wasn't sacked, she got promoted
- she still likes girls
- I still like her... in a platonic sort of way
Extract from an IOC blog re Beijing and the question of gender testing
The International Olympic Committee (IOC) introduced sex testing in 1968 at the Olympic games in Mexico City, after the masculine appearance of some competitors, many pumped up by anabolic steroids, had started to raise questions about the gender of athletes in female events. Unsurprisingly, gender-determination tests were seen as degrading, with female competitors having to submit to humiliating and invasive physical examinations by a series of doctors. Later, the IOC decided to use a supposedly more sophisticated genetic test, based on chromosomes. Women usually have two X chromosomes; men an X and a Y chromosome. So, according to the rules of the test, only those athletes with two X chromosomes could be classed as women. However, many geneticists criticised the tests, saying that sex is not as simple as X and Y chromosomes and is not always simple to ascertain.
It is thought that around one in 1,000 babies are born with an "intersex" condition, the general term for people with chromosomal abnormalities. It may be physically obvious from birth - babies may have ambiguous reproductive organs, for instance - or it may remain unknown to people all their lives. At the Atlanta games in 1996, eight female athletes failed sex tests but were all cleared on appeal; seven were found to have an "intersex" condition. As a result, by the time of the Sydney games in 2000, the IOC had abolished universal sex testing but, as will happen in Beijing, some women still had to prove they really were women.
Transsexuals, who have had a sex change from male to female, can compete in women's events in the Olympics, as long they wait two years after the operation.
some women still had to prove they really were women
Can you imagine?!!!
The following are some of the more famous instances when female athletes were caught in the gender trap.
Santhi SoundarajanOne of the most tragic recent cases is yet to reach a conclusion. Soundarajan, a 27-year-old Indian athlete, has had to endure public humiliation after she was stripped of her silver medal for the 800m at the Asian games in 2006. Soundarajan, who has lived her entire life as a woman, failed a gender test, which usually includes examinations by a gynaecologist, endocrinologist, psychologist and a genetic expert. The precise results of the test have not been made public, but it has been reported that the likely cause is a condition called Androgen insensitivity syndrome, where a person has the physical characteristics of a woman but whose genetic make-up includes a male chromosome. The Canadian cyclist Kristen Worley, who has undergone sex reassignment surgery, is one of a number of people who are calling for Soundarajan's medal to be reinstated. "It should never have been handled in such a gross manner, amounting to public humiliation because of their ignorance of her condition," Worley has said. "The Olympic movement has been dealing with intersex people since the 1930s. You'd think they would have got the hang of it by now." The humiliation and prospect that her career may be over has taken its toll on Soundarajan. In September, Indian newspapers reported that she had survived a suicide attempt.
Edinanci SilvaBorn with both male and female sex organs, the Brazilian judo player had surgery in the mid-90s so that she could live and compete as a woman. According to the IOC, this made her eligible to participate in the games and she competed in Atlanta 1996, Sydney 2000 and Athens in 2004. In Sydney, she beat the Australian judoka Natalie Jenkins, who raised the issue of Silva's gender in a press conference, constantly referring to her as "he". "I have never fought that one before. My plan was not to grip with her, she's - he's - very strong," she said. Silva gave a mouth swab to officials, which proved she was female.
Dora RatjenIn the 1936 Olympic games in Berlin, Adolf Hitler wanted to show the world the supremacy of the Aryan race - and he needed German athletes to win. Ratjen, notable for her deep voice and her refusal to share the shower room with the other female athletes, was Germany's entry for the women's high jump. She came fourth. Britain's competitor, Dorothy Tyler, who won a silver medal, remembers her. "I had competed against Dora and I knew she was a man," she says. "You could tell by the voice and the build. But 'she' was far from the only athlete. You could tell because they would always go into the toilet to get changed. We'd go and stand on the seat of the next-door cubicle or look under the door to see if we could catch them." Tyler held the world record for the high jump, but when officials wrote to her telling her that Ratjen had broken it, she wrote back. "I said: 'She's not a woman, she's a man,'" she says. "They did some research and found 'her' serving as a waiter called Hermann, so I got my world record back again." Dora, who had been born Hermann Ratjen, had in fact been a member of the Hitler Youth and said that the Nazis had forced him to enter as a woman.
How does that tie in with the chromasone sex check then? If they were born male, and are genetically male, but "feel" female enough to have the op (sorry, have probably got that wrong, but hopefully you know what I mean) how can they then be allowed to complete as a woman? After all, their chromasones are still male, aren't they?
Life was much simpler when you were little and it was a case of "I'll show you mine of you show me yours"
My Grandma was a member of Hitler Youth....
Or was she really my GRANDAD????
ah, the infamous Grandma
It's a bizarre world out there. Agreed Helen, it was more simple when you were ickle
Is it really any different to having an advantage of being 6 feet 5 inches tall and being a basketball player?
Sorry - the grammar pedant in me can't be restrained any longer and I have to let it all out.......
What Nam means to say is 'lesbian ex-Secretary '
*Takes a deep breath in, counts to three and exhales slooooooowly*
LOL! Schmunks, you're a bigger pedant than Wilkie!
You can be in charge of grammar and we'll leave Wilkie on spelling duty!
They got the gender of these wrong as well !!
Well that was a waste of time, A zoo purchased a polar bear and tried to have it mate a couple of females but after 3 months of waiting found it to be a female bear as well.
Picture fairy sprinkles her magic
I think Arctic Lady is a bloke really............
.........................
I would just like to say that there has been a spelling mistake.
Her name is Semenya
Who can you believe eh?
In common use they mean the same thing. There might be some value in distinguising between them as you have but it can also imply that gender is open to change or interpretation whilst sex is black and white - which as Zanzy pointed out earlier it isn't.
Be interesting if the argument is she has AIS - because the (or one) argument for letting women with xy chromosomes compete is that it doesn't confer a competitive advantage - something to do with lacking the receptors to take advantage of the excess testosterone (or something like that) - looking at her you'd have to say it appears she's got the body and muscular development of a man and if she does have xy chromosomes you'd assume her body is a result of that.