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Talkback: Lucozade Sport Super Six: Christina (sub-3:00)
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Well duh, that was the whole point, wasn't it? They always pick people for these where the target is a decent challenge, and all credit to JBFAR for giving it a good go despite setbacks. That's what makes these threads interesting, and is why this one has run to 2000 posts, not to mention lurkers like me who've read a lot but can't add much in the way of advice. If they picked someone next year like (looking randomly up the page) RSalter, who needs to knock a few seconds off to reach sub 3, then (no disrespect mate) it's unlikely to have the same level of interest.
Quoting odds of failure after the event is easy - in fact I'd have given good odds on you coming up with a post like that.
That's a perfect run! I rather expect he (Contro) will be doing it again
Hi JBFAR
Unlucky yesterday. One of those days I guess. You'll go sub3 next year I just know it. As an ordinary runner I just find it incredible how you run so bleedin quick even on an "off day".
Anyway take care and be happy. You've been a great supersixer.
MAD LAD - sorry it didn't work out for you yesterday mate. I like your confidence about getting what you believe/know you can run. I think I feel the same in lots of ways re yesterday. Interesing what you say about the effort compared with your sub 3 last year.
Whereas I never had a complete collapse second half I just didn't get into a proper flow in the second half which is disappointing and having looked at the pace graph I was gradually leaking time from 18. Disappointing as I thought I'd paced the first half pretty well for the first time. Changes in training, approaches for next time, possibly, who knows.
Been reading the reports on sub 3 forum, mixed bag, highs and lows, just goes to show.
Had I run 2.59.59 I might have been more excited about London post race but I definitely didn't get that same buzz I had two years ago. I don't know, I've run it 3 times now and maybe fancy something different. There's parts of the route I find pretty dull to be honest, running somewhere different would be refreshing. Fraser mentioned something about so much going on in terms of people, noise and finding it distracting. I think I had some of that yesterday too. Too early to even contemplate London next year to be fair. I guess having had 3 1/2 months of total inactivity due to swine flu last June, physically it's not a bad achievement.
Amsterdam in October would be the most likely choice I think.......if I run an autumn marathon.
Jokerman
Must be a great being so feckin' perfect. Don't go applying for that job as a Samaritan just yet.
Presumably you always run the perfect race and never ever miss your targets apart from when you occasionally slip coming down the stairs of your ivory tower
RS Obviously disappointing to be just the wrong side of target but the reallity is that you where you need to be fitness wise. Get another one lined up and you will get under for sure.
I hear Berlin is a good one!
H4rry, nice one, we were only 10 secs apart so must have have seen you post race, except I was on a blurred rollercoaster of tired then flying then back down again. Decided to sit down and chew a mars bar and chill out for 5. Nice result mate, going to start the park runs in Cardiff in a couple of weeks so may see you around the local circuit somewhere....
As for the forum, I think it has Been great. Exchanging different views is what it's all about. I've gained loads of knowledge and different approaches that I didn't have before, I agree with others that jbfar must have felt more pressure than the rest of us and going sub 3 was always going to be a challenge for most if us. I think she did great to overcome injuries and stuff and hope she can take some positives from the training and coaching.
Well guys thanks for all your advice and help, all of it has been really usefull.
That's me signing out of this forum....
Over and out!!!!
Morning all
Congratulations to those who made their times and commiserations to others , esp JBFAR
My time 3.11.17 - a little disappointing , 1.32.41 at half, and 2.13.13 at 30k , 2.36 at 35k so really lost it last few. I think with a bit of speed work, I could knock off 4 or 5 minutes.
JBFAR - you looked pretty good when I saw you, at around 3 miles I think - followed you for a mile or so - but at 6.36 a little fast for me. Sorry that it didn't work out for you this time, but there's always the next one
Well done to all who ran yesterday. We were there watching and have to say next year I'm running it's far less stressful trying to spectate at several different areas using public transport and my feet of course.
JBFAR - I'm really sorry you had a rough day out there. I've had a few like that myself and it's not a pleasant experience, so well done on keeping going and doing what you could.
Now I always try to be truthful and I have to say that I've always had doubts about your training (never the pace you could run as you've shown you do have a sub 3 pace) being enough to secure a sub 3. You had those few weeks of injury and with a schedule that was so lacking in miles anyhow it was a lot to lose from your training and always going to be a tough call, but you gave it a shot and it didn't work, but another day with a longer build-up and consistent mileage you'll do it. And, you did get a good 10 mile time out of it and a good 20 mile time, so at least you come away with some good races.
Take care, recover and come back strong!
Christina - well played for being bold and giving it a bash, you learm more from teh bad days.
Jokerman - completely out of order behaviour there. Sitting at the front of the smug-bus today are you ? What time did you do y'day ?
Hard luck jbfar - well done on toughing it out, certainly tougher to keep going while carrying the mental disappointment of seeing the time slipping away.
However for me the programme was not long enough or rigorous to build the endurance to succeed. Compromised as it was by a period of injury, it put the task just beyond reach.
I'm sure JBFAR could get a sub 3 at VLM (or indeed another race) in the coming years, using what she has learnt on this journey and picking up advice from her clubmates and other threads around here.
Again she gave it a go and did the best on the day, which is all anyone can ask of the individual.
I've been silently watching this and the 3.15 thread the past few months as thought I'd fit in-between the two.
Hard luck on not getting your time, but well done for completing the run one and all and hope everyone had a drink (or six) to celebrate either way yesterday - it's a long old way.
I think I saw you circa 16 miles - I was working too hard to say hello and didn't want to put anyone off their focus! You certainly have the pace for sub three - alot more nippy than me with your time in the ten miler, so definetly keep the faith and go for it again in a smaller race / one where the start is better organised, off a good training schedule it's there for the taking.
I managed 3.08.25 (1.32 half) which was about the best I could hope for of my training / diet. Had ok endurance just not the pace but my own fault for liking Peroni and chicken vindaloo so much!
As for the race, spent the first five miles weaving. Couldn't really soak up the atmosphere due to working so hard to keep going! Organisation was great minus the pens though and will 100% be back.
Have entered Berlin and aim to try and work on my pace the next few month, I'm keeping my sub three dreams alive - glad to be able to get in GFA with sub 3.10 next year - thanks for changing that Virgin! Best get back to club after a well deserved week off!
cheers
Just popped on to see how things went (have been lurking but not had time to participate).
Looks like a mixed bag, and like BR, I'm sure JBFAR will get a sub-3. Several athletes have mentioned they suffered a bit from the humidity in the second half - from the BBC studio I was in it seemed like a perfect day with the early rain but you can't tell the effect of high humidy until you are actually running in it.
There were quite a few elites who struggled in the second half after a fairly controlled first half. It was good to see a bit more depth near the front from the British men and it looks like there's the possibility of a break through run on the horizon for some of them if they can spur each other on.
echo the sentiments posted recently JBFAR... just one of those things. You've been as determined as ever - no-one can take that away from you. For what it's worth... I had a shocker yesterday albeit going for a slower time (cramp from mile 19 onwards, could hardly run, ran-walked 7 miles to the finish, would have stopped but for people waiting for me and having raised substantial funds for charity).
Don't let the marathon/your aspirations beat you - I will certainly be attacking it again in future. Take time to rest, chillout and reflect, thinking what's best for you.
R salter- Gutted for you..so close- you will nail it next time.
For me I felt ok up till half way and came in at around 1hr 31. then my quads started cramping up and i began having some really negative thoughts..Ive never had that sort of pain in my quads before so it was just strange for me..I wonder if it was my change of shoes, or dehydration, or lack of cycling (not strengthening my quads)..I really don't know but from that point onward it was a real struggle to keep going at any pace.
At mile 17 i started getting stitches and had to stop and stretch at one point as i started to hyper ventilate..at that point i just thought, i'm just going to drop back at a pace that i can complete this marathon at and not receive medical help!!
At mile 22 i passed 3 of my club mates who were walking...2 were supporting a guy who was well on for sub 3 at mile 22 then hit a brick wall...I felt really emotional at this point because he deserved it so much and it was such a horrible thing to see.
i kept going at a steady pace with everyone passing me...up to the finish. I made it to the finish and just felt rubbish...
Regarding my pacing...Yes I probably could have gone quicker if i had started slower- but I wanted a sub 3, that was my goal, and the whole point for me, so I had to go at the pace-I am glad i did otherwise I would never have known whether or not I could do it.
So im obviously gutted, and can hardly walk still- well have to do everything straight legged! I can't even think about doing the whole thing again..but if I did I would;
a) Pick a smaller, quieter marathon that was less stressful than London
b) Not put as much pressure on myself as i did and Relax a bit more about it all
Being part of the supersix has been great and have really enjoyed the forums.. thanks everyone for taking time to write on them and supporting everyone.
I haven't heard from Paul since middle of last week- so Paul- hope you are ok?
Hi Christina - good effort, you gave it a good go, going though halfway on target, and then having problems with your quads cramping up, it was very humid out there this might of played a part, I saw you at 22 and then got your finishing time, obviously you are disapointed but you will be back and I am sure you will crack 3 hrs next time, my advise is to take a couple of weeks off running and reflect on the last 4 month, and decide what you want from the sport? it would be good to see you doing some shorter distances, 5k's & 10k's and then having another go at sub 3
You have been a star from day one, the way you dealt with everything, injury included
My first 2 marathons I DNF, and knowing you " all be it on a forum" you will be back!
Well done Christina
Take care !!
Having spoken to the Brand Manager at Lucozade she said they had identified 36,000 unique users who have logged on to the 6 threads since they were started. This is a record for the Super Six project in the (approx) 4 years they've been running it so it may not be selling the magazines but it does look like it's increased traffic to the RW site which is one of the main aims of the competition.
I agree this is important and the better the conditioning, the better the athlete. However what cannot always be anticipated is the body's response to some variables. Viral infection, electrolyte imbalance, muscle tension, anxiety, heat intolerance (I could go on).
This is why the marathon is revered by so many and Liz Yelling is right when she says, the marathon rarely goes to plan.
What is clear is the Super Six gave everything to achieve their goals and I believe they will achieve them in the fullness of time!!
Smurf - if JBFAR had toed the line in genuine sub 3 shape then yes any of those variables could have conspired to prevent a 2.5x.
It's tricky picking a sub 3 contender for this project because if you pick a youngish guy with some previous evidence of talent then getting into sub 3 shape is pretty straightforward for most. A woman or an older guy presents more of a challenge, but the bigger the challenge (which makes it a more readable thread / magazine article) the more things have to go right with the preparation to achieve the end goal.
I did say at the start that I thought to get someone into sub 3 shape that the pre-thread preparation was important and that I thought endurance was the key element for JBFAR. That she could get herself into 64.xx shape with a few decent training weeks was testament to the fact that the basic speed would not be an issue. So I agree, 3k pace reps were not focussing on what she needed at that point.
JBFAR - were you to approach another marathon, what are the 3 most important lessons you have learned from this campaign?
1) Have more then a 16 week build up. I think because I had time out after my IM I lost some base fitness. If I had kept the running up I think I would have been in better shape at the start of the 16 weeks.
2) Everyone has lots of different ideas and methods for training. Have a plan that you have complete confidence in and know why you are doing each and every session...what is the point and what are you going to gain from it- know what pace you should be going.
3) Never underestimate the marathon. You can not cheat it. Aim for well below the marathon predictor times for 10k and 10mile and 20 mile races to hit sub 3.
4) Have fun in training as it becomes a massive part of your life
Paul- Shame i didnt spot you! Thank you for all you guidance.
Yes perhaps I will do some shorter races for a while and see where I am at with them.
Wouldn't it be great if RW wouldn't perpetuate the folly of picking a marathon time and training specifically for it using an off the shelf plan.
All the ingredients are in place for the runner to train hard with a tailored regime designed / adapted by a personal coach and then to arrive at a realistic marathon goal during the training process so on the day the runner has a realistic target. Everyone would learn more and the runner would be put in the best position to have a successful day - time wise and enjoyment wise.
Does it not strike anyone else as utterly perverse that the program forced jbfar into a sub-3hr marathon schedule off a 3:13 previous whereas the 4hr guy was asked to duck under 4 hours with a 1h 42 hm best. So you have two runners - one with an extremely tough target and another with an extremely soft target, both shoe horned into inappropriate schedules.
This ludicrous slapping on of target numbers 16 weeks before the day with no thought to the realism of the target is such amazingly bad practice - worsened by the fact that there is no control or guidance in the weeks approaching the 16 week countdown. Whatever happened to training to train?
The way the super six is run is a curse more than anything. RW - next year please extend your potentially fantastic offer but do the thing sensibly this time.
The sad thing is the forum is full of runners going for completely inappropriate times because they read these RW sponsored threads and think the right way to go about it is to pick any old time and base their training paces on that aspirational (or otherwise) goal. You have 1:30 HMers aiming to break 5 hours and 2:00 HMers going for 3:30. Set a good example RW, for God's sake.
JBFAR,
I would just like to say i ran a lot of the marathon near to you as i was on 3 hour pace too. You looked consistent and strong and thought you'd get close to the 3 hour mark. I too didn't achieve goal and did 3:17. Things can just go wrong on the day and they did for me on 22 when i just ran out of fuel.
The main mistake i made was drinking a little from each and every water station which was just not enough. At races where there are fewer stations i take more on at each station and hydrate better. I am not sure if this was an issue for you but i felt that there was so much hydrtation on offer that i became overwhelmed and got confused as to where/when take on water/gels.
Maybe consider a less popular marathon, where the pressure is not there and you can just enjoy the race. I am going to do this and hopefully do London again in few years time.
Still it was a great day and you will be back and get under 3 with determination and hard work.
Congratulations Cristina and everyone who completed the marathon! I can’t really comment on the finer detail of marathon running but I think everyone will have learnt a great deal about themselves over the past 16 weeks.
Thanks also to the other forum users for testing my brain power and asking me lots of tricky questions. I’ll be hanging around on the Runners World Forums for the foreseeable future so feel free to carry on asking me questions.
Gareth I had some questions a few days ago that I posted on this thread:
Thanks in advance.