Talkback: Lucozade Sport Super Six: Christina (sub-3:00)

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  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    Christina - nice to see that you got past the rocket science here and bagged some miles. Its still treacherous round here too.

    Has Deano entered that Swashbuckler yet ?

  • Jokerman - I would not jump straight in with 6:51 pace running as JBFAR is clearly not in that shape at present (as you note 26 secs / mile slower than 10k pace).  What I would advise is a run at between current marathon effort / HR to HRMar -15bpm or current MP + 30 secs / mile.  I think that her Thursday hard club run would fit that bill, albeit slightly more random but probably easier to nail running in a group.

    Like you, that looks to be the key session of the week.  As she is not used to the impact miles on the legs, I would also look at running a large proportion of the LSR on trails / grass.

  • JBFAR – I agree re MP feeling fast.  6:52 pace feels more like tempo pace than MP to me at the moment.  I’m currently doing a weekly 10m run at “marathon effort”, which is coming out at 7:00-7:10 pace at present.  I’m judging marathon effort by a combination of feel and HR and hoping that it will be down below 6:52 come April!  If it doesn’t dip under 7’s soon I might have to start forcing the issue by running to pace for a few weeks but will leave it until mid Feb before resorting to that.

     

    I see you’re doing Reading.  Me too.  I got my PB there last yr (1:26:xx).  Do you have a target for this year?  They say 1:23 is the benchmark for a sub 3 but if I can get under 1:25 I’ll probably believe I’m in with a shout of sub 3 if it goes well on the day.  13.1m at 6:29 pace seems a long way off at present, though image.  My 5m tempo runs are only coming out at 6:45 pace at the moment (although I think the ice has been costing me around 10s per mile these last couple of weeks).  With my first race of the year looming (Sussex Beacon half in Feb) I think I need to start really focussing on these sessions like Jokerman suggests.

    Well done on the 6 miler
  • JBFAR - did you miss my question yesterday asking where you did your 10k and HM pbs and how did you train for them?  I ask because you've obviously been at a level that is sub 3 marathon shape, so I was wondering how this training differs from that.

    On the subject of running MP.  I tried it today at the end of my 15 miles and managed just 3 miles at 6:50 pace and found it far harder than what I would expect MP on the day to feel.  I've never been a fan of MP runs in the past, but my aim is to try and increase from 3 miles to about 6-7 at the end of my 15 mile runs.  I'm not sure this will end up being my MP, but it's what I want it to be or thereabouts and so although some people will start from where they are and work towards MP, I'm starting from where I want to be and building on it.

  • No running for me today, went to a Water Aerobics class and did some length swimming. image

    Felt really good to give the legs a bit of a rest after all the running that I have done in the snow. I have found running in the snow hard work and hope that when the roads are runnable once more that it will feel sooo easy!!

    Mixed interval session planned for tomorrow - My usual Tuesday training route is still covered in ice, so we will have to be inventive if the conditions don't improve. One of my friends ran laps round her Dad's garden - I guess where there is a will there is a way!!

    Regarding running a long run with no breakfast, I am ok with this, but for anything over 60-90 minutes (depending on the intensity) I take gels, and fluid. I also eat lots when I get home - one good thing about running is all the food that you can eatimage

  • RS78RS78 ✭✭✭

    Golden Eagle, I'm doing Sussex Beacon and Reading too but Watford first on my birthday on the 7th Feb. I'm not as fussed about doing Brighton but loads of mates doing it so still going to do it. Watford will be an early indicator of where I'm at then Reading the key bench mark. I ran it in 1.25.53 pretty much the same as you but back in 2008. I'm looking to go well past that this time for obvious reasons especially as I know the route so well from having done it 3 times. I think it's a fast route though bar those two decent at 2 and 7 miles hills.

    I was just about to start doing some MP runs on my wednesday run but then the snow came, lol I'm going to start runnign with London Heathside and start these runs next week I think but I'm not going to go too mental before Feb.

    Whats SUssex Beacon like, you done it before? If its windy looks like it'll be tough.

  • We probably need to define the purpose of marathon pace training at this point in time.  Is it to practice running at goal pace or is it to glean the physiological benefits of MP running in relation to current fitness?

    At some point in the near future you would hope that marathon pace and marathon pace based on current fitness would be identical in which case there is no decision to be made.  Obviously they are not one and the same this far out from the marathon itself. 

    But now?  Training at goal marathon pace is going to be pretty stressful and, to me anyway, you'd be better off training at MP based on current fitness to reap the physiological benefits of that as opposed to training at goal marathon pace, which at the moment is unrealistic.

    By all means train at goal marathon pace now if you wish but understand that it is not giving you the physiological benefits of "training at marathon pace" based on current fitness.  So what does the plan / mentor actually intend from these sessions?

  • Hilly - if you ran 15-miles with 3 at MP in this weather you did wellimage

    During the past month I have been focusing more on building strength - the snow has been good in this respect! With an emphasis on hills, cross country races (when not cancelled) and longish runs off-road.  My partner says it is the only time that he hears me breath is in a cross-country race!! Must be good for meimage

  • just back from a run wrote (see

    My nutrition for the run: breakie was porridge at around 6am (still have jet lag) the toast at 7am then out of door at 8am, I took some water in a hand held bottle but didnt drink it all (naughty i know) I also had a gel at around 40 mins (Go gel and Lucozade gels havent arrived yet)  as soon I got home I went to make a protein shake however i didnt have any milk as a result of the panic buying that went on at the local shop yesterday! so i had a Lucozade protein recovery bar which went down well.  After a shower had some toast, and some water then for lunch an egg sarnie and a muller rice.  How does that sound Gareth?

    On a whole that sounds like a pretty good training day nutritional plan. Usually you would try and eat your breakfast a little earlier before you run but if your stomach can handle that then your lucky! If you have had a high carb meal the evening before then that's fine to eat less closer to the start of your run. Whilst you are running try and drink some more on each run just so you can get used to it. There will be water at every mile during VLM so getting used to drinking and running is advised. Also when you get your Lucozade training pack (which is probably snowed in somewhere!) try and take some of that out with you. A 330ml bottle of LS Body Fuel will be available at 5, 10, 15, 19 and 23 miles during VLM. Also great to see you have had a gel at 40 mins, which is the ideal time when you are exercising for longer than an hour. I'm glad you liked the LS Recovery Bar they are very useful to take as soon as you have finished. A carb (toast) and protein (egg) mix is ideal for recovery. Did you get a chance to check your urine colour pre-run?

  • Joker/RSalter, thanks. I agree with you that LSR's should be prep for race day. A guy from my club did a few of his LSR's on empty & got a 2.56. Who knows he may have done BETTER if he'd have done them as race prep? I've tried it a couple of times & run out of puff by 15-17m. RSalter, I don't need to lose weight! If I did I'd disappear!

    Some good points on MP running too all. Makes me feel better if nothing else!

  • What level of intensity should marathon pace be at? I've been going at around 80% MHR for my MP runs but could the intensity be highter than this?
  • RS - I have done Sussex Beacon the last 2 years an PB'd both times.  Conditions were cold, still and clear each time (maybe a bit of wind in 09).  Its is largely run along the sea front at Brighton so flat and fast for the most part.  The first 2-3 miles are a bit twisty-turny through the town centre and then there is a bit of up and down near the end but overall a good PB course if the wind stays away.
  • N&S - I ran it on the treadmill with an incline of 1% and the 3m at 14kph.  Of course one can never be absolutely accurate when running on the treadmill, but I always find it takes me much longer to do 15 on the treadmill than on the road even at what is supposedly the same pace.  So really I most probably did more than 15 miles.  Is it VLM you are doing?
  • I did 10m on the treadmill at 15kph on 1% incline.  I've been doing those a few weeks now and they're feeling more and more comfortable, so it will soon be time to up the pace.  The other thing I'm doing is some 100m sprints as that is my other limiting factor - 5k pace (5:18m/m) is far too close to 10k pace (5:23m/m). 
  • Hi Christina

    Hope you are well, glad you managed to get out today weather suppose to get betterimage

    here hopeing !

    Agreed Christina training at Marathon pace would be streeful to say the least,hopefully as time goes on this will not always be  the case after all we are only into the first week of 16,

    I always used the talk test when doing my tempo run, "you couldn't hold a coversation but could manage a yes or no"  80%-85% MHR bearing in mind that these tempo runs are  shorter in distance 5-6 mile on average to begin with, Thursday is Christina,s tempo run (11 mile ) I would not expect Christina to run all 11 miles at tempo, but as time goes on hopefully there is more of it  at tempo, LR again depending on  how Christina feels and bearing in mind that her long run is increasing each week the quality of that run will improve, as for the rest of Christina's session goes its a case of HYF 

  • TR- I dont think he's gonna be entering the swashbuckler I'm afraid...he has only just started to go to the gym to lift some weight so not alot of aerobic work is being done!

     GE: Yes, hopefully doing Reading half- also doing wokingham half before that so will get an idea where im at- hopefully be doing 1hr 25...well hopefully quicker than that but have to see how it goes.

    Hilly: My PBs were set quite a few years ago and I cant really remember the training I was doing (I have a really bad memory!) I remember I set my half marathon time at Wokingham the year (2003?) I fell off my road bike and fractured my wrist leaving me in a cast on my arm  The only thing I could do was running so I did quite a bit of that- I had the advantage that I trained with someone a lot quicker than me so that definately helped .  Although my 10k and half marathon PB time indicates I was in sub 3 shape I dont think i was anywhere near it as my PB for half marathon was set at my first ever half marathon distance race- I only went above 14 miles in training in 2006 when I trained for the Rome marathon.  So I'd never done high mileage until then.   welldone to you and BR on your treadie sessions

     Paul: Like your new profile picture.  Hopefully no one is into signature fraudery on here?!?  image defo got warmer in winchester today- i didnt even need my hat or gloves when i took the dog for a walk !

    Regarding HR-no I dont ever where a monitor but I may give it a go- I just need to work out how to use it properly.  TBH I have tried them in the past but they always seem to slip off or go wrong somehow and I feel it wastes time fiddling around with it when I just wanna get on with it.  I will give it another go though as maybe the Garmin ones are better than what I have used in the past

  • Gareth: got my lucozade stuff today so will be using that now. I didn't do the urine test but will do. Are the hydroactive powders for before or after the run would u say?
  • JBFAR - thanks for the answer.  The fact you only went above 14 miles when training for Rome marathon a few years after your pbs suggests you have some natural talent.  I think my first half marathon when I didn't train, but ran a few miles was in 1:38.  I then stayed around the 1:32-1:35 mark for years and only improved when I started training properly for  my first sub 3:15 attempt.  I've got a half this month, which I think might reveal I'm nowhere near the shape I want to be in, but it'll give me a realistic mark to work from.

  • Very quiet on here.  Is everyone out tickling their aerobic thresholds?
  • Nice session in the snow today for me...

    1 mile jog warm up.

    3 x 2 miles at 6 min mile pace with 800m jog recovery between.

    1 mile jog cool down.

    Does anyone else have the smae problem with work getting in the way of trainning image

    I dont enjoy the speed sessions tbh. I always seem to doubt my abiltity to 6 min mile unless I'm in a race, however after a reasonable warm up I was only 5 - 10 seconds out on my pace. So all in all a sucsessfull session.

    Looking forward to tommorrows run 7 - 8 miles at 7:16 min mile, thats more like it image

  • RS78RS78 ✭✭✭

    Haha, no I'm about to go back to the gym to do some strength training. I was impressed you said you ran for 10 miles at 15kph BR, thats impressive mate!

    I'm definitely a lot fitter going into this training than before London in 2008 if anything down to lifestyle changes. I did an hour on the treadmill today, cruised for 35 mins then ran at 14.1kph for 25 mins at 2% incline. I settled into the pace pretty well and while I wasn't that tired after the concept of doing that for 3 hours seems ridiculous at the moment even if it seems a lot faster on the treadmill, lol

  • Yes Tony - I could run stronger and longer in the morning but don't have the time, then when it comes to the evening it's more of a struggle to get out.  Lucky I'm a teacher so I get 1 / 4 weeks in the year when I can train to my own rhythms.

    RS - the 10m is the 4th time I've done it this training block, and it's getting more and more comfortable, which means it will soon be time to up the effort to `squeeze the toothpaste'.  It's my key run of the week, more so than the LSR.  I know I can run 26.2 miles any weekend I wish.  It's a case of how quickly I can run them, which that session addresses.

  • Roads and pavements still very icy here in Norfolk. Easy 45minutes this morning off-road, dodging the icy patches, but managed to stay uprightimage 

    My usual Tuesday evening speed session was called off again due to ice. Changed route to local industrial estate coz roads were quite and ice free. Managed kilometere reps, involving 650meters uphill one way and 350meters other way - made interesting times ranging from 3.30 - 3.38mins.

    First time that I have run in road shoes since before Christmas - felt great!

    Hilly - yes I am training for London

    Good sessions from everyone in challenging conditions - just hope this weather improves soon!

  • N&S - are you running at the Wymondham 20?  We've just entered online.
  • BR- I've not made my mind up about running a 20 mile race - I think that they can take a lot out of you!

    I've run lots of Wymondham races, including the 20 several times - my PB of 2.14 achieved on this course. Course is underlating, but not if you come from Yorkshire!

  • Morning! More snow-had enough of this now.

    Well done on your runs yesterday.
    I went down to my club session, it was a speed session on grass which was really hard as there was lots of soft snow on it!session was 1 mile jog warm up, 10 min threshold, 12 x 400m then 1 mile jog down. It was round 6.5 miles in total. I did find the 400m tough esp. with the snow.
    Pace wise- not sure if I nailed the pace but it was;
    Lap 1 6.41 min mile, lap 2 9.15 min mile, lap 3 6.55 min mile, lap 4 6.58 min mile, lap 5 6.49 min mile, lap 6 7.09 min mile.

    Tony- good speed session! Do you do that with a club?

    N&S- Im doing 20m race in Feb- i presume it will be run with a number on (havent confirmed with paul) but am doing a half marathon a week later and would prefer to go for it at this race rather than 20 mile. I have never run a 20 mile race before so will be interesting!

    Schedule says 5 miles easy today.
  • Good effort at the club yesterday JBFAR, can only imagine what it's like to do speedwork in the snow at the mo - i've been doing all my running outside despite the weather, albeit to a enforced reduced schedule and have avoided the speedork thus far - will need to find a compromise to get it done somehow though. Like you say, sick of the snow now, another layer here as well (B'ham).

    Will see you at Bramley - hopefully the training will get done in time to increase my endurance to the 20 miles! (1st mara never been past 15 miles)

  • N&S - we're not racing it.  Just a solid training run - about 2:10 for me and 2:20 for Hilly.  Last year she did (on consecutive Sundays) 2:15, 2:20, 2:17 (hilly course), 2:15.  Blew up on marathon day though. Funny that...  We're also doing Ashby 20 and the Grindleford Gallop 21.  Again, training with a number on.

    Pure races will be:-

    Brass Monkey HM (both of us)
    Trafford 10k (me)
    National XC (me)
    Snake Lane 10 (Hilly)
    Wakefield 10k (both of us)

    We're visiting the area to see the Desert Rats memorial in Thetford Forest.

    JBFAR - nice session, but 9:15m/m???  Was that on the Garmin?

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