Talkback: Lucozade Sport Super Six: Christina (sub-3:00)

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  • Hi Christina

    I hope you get home soon,I am afriad its treadmill or trudging around on the grass !

     Keep me posted

    Paul

  • Even snow here, thats now turned to treacherous ice. I cant see me running again for a few days, cos I have no mill, mind you there's no sign of warmer temperatures for about another week !

    I dont do the Aussie carb load thing, reckon its a load of pony myself. And seeing as I rarely do anything faster than a little bit of  MP running, the klast thing I'm going to do 2 days before a big one is run flat out.

  •  JBFA - my son returned to Manchester Uni at the weekend and said it is the deepest snow that he has ever seen! - so not good for running when the snow is over your shins!

    The weather has certainly been challenging!!  I have been running, but it has been all off road, including an effort session last night on the grass with a good covering of snow. I just keep telling myself that I am going to be so stong and toughimage When the local Cross Country race was called off this afternoon I did  think about running on a treadmill  but I ended up running 9 miles off road with 8 hill spints to finish off and felt great at the end all warm and glowingimage

  • MM - I am in agreement with the ratio that is suggested for the Aussi method, its more the fact of changing the strategy to such a radical regime just 24 hours before the big day. The Aussi study is stating that you would gain a great storage of carbs by ingesting 7g/km BM, followed by strenuous exercise, then ingesting 12g/kg BM. However, is it likely that you would gain the same success by ingesting 10g/kg BM for 2-3 days prior to the race, without the additional strenuous exercise.Pre-exercise meals can come in many different forms containing different amounts of carbs:
    http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/479052/Gallery/Food_Diary.jpg

    For yourself JBFR a good pre run meal plan would be to consume a carbohydrate rich (80-160g) breakfast 3-4 hours before you exercise. This could be in the form of 2 slices of toast (32g carbs), 1 medium sliced banana (32g), large handful of raisins (70g), small bowl cornflakes (26g) with a LS Body Fuel drink (30g). For more information on carbohydrate content. As a pre-race snack 1 hour before you exercise, again you could have a banana or a LS Energy Bar (30g). It is also important to ensure you are hydrated in the lead up to any form of exercise so make sure you check the colour of your urine first thing in the morning and then drink some additional fluid until your urine is pale/clear.

  • Day 3 no running...ahhhhhhhimage I need my running fix. Have been doing an hour on the cross trainer daily but its not the same.

    Come on snow, we have all had enough of you now...go back to the north pole....

  • Hi all

    Just a quick reminder that Nick Morgan (Lead Sport Scientist at Lucozade Sport) will be online between 1 and 2pm today to answer any questions you might have about nutrition.

    We've opened the debate a little early so post your questions for Nick now so he can get stuck in straight away at 1pm!

    Thanks

    Catherine

  • I'm home!! I've made it! Yikes- it was touch and go! but after days of traveling im back in snowy winchester contemplating a run in the snow. 

    So far week one has not gone 100% to plan due to travel disruptions, but that's the only holiday i'm having between now and the marathon so all fine.  I started the week off Monday and Tuesday 6 miles on treadmill and Wednesday 10miles on treadmill.  Had to have 2 days off for travel and now after letting porridge digest i'll be tackling a 7miler out doors then a 12miler tomorrow.  So week one should be 41 miles in total.

    We have lots of snow in Winchester so am hoping itsgoing to be fine to run on and hasnt turned into ice- ill soon find out though! luckily I have gym membership so that will be my fall back plan - the treadie.

    Gareth you said For yourself JBFR a good pre run meal plan would be to consume a carbohydrate rich (80-160g) breakfast 3-4 hours before you exercise. This could be in the form of 2 slices of toast (32g carbs), 1 medium sliced banana (32g), large handful of raisins (70g), small bowl cornflakes (26g) with a LS Body Fuel drink (30g). For more information on [i]carbohydrate content[/i]. As a pre-race snack 1 hour before you exercise, again you could have a banana or a LS Energy Bar (30g).

    That is much more than i have at the moment- what distance run are you talking here ??  having breakie 3-4 hours before exercise is not always a realistic possiblity either.  I have taken on board eating before running now and always eat an hour before i go out, but for a long run on Sunday i would have porridge, raisons and a bit of sugar with a coffee one our before i go out then take gels and a bit of water with me. maybe i should have a bit of toast as well.

    What would you say though was the optimum weight/BMI for a good marathon runner? I don't want to put any weight on as I feel that would effect my time in a negative way.  I don't count calories or anything like that but it can not be ignored that the elite marathon runners do not have any extra weight to them!

    Its such a shame races are being cancelled- I hear stubbington 10k has too

  • GE- Thanks for that link- that's pretty amazing, and as Hilly said only doing 45 minute sessions would be awaesome- a very talented guy huh!

    N&S- Good luck to you on your sub 3 quest also-keep up the posting- are you following the RW schedule aswell?  I dont know what start we will be put on for the VLM- I am checkin that with RW- but i may see you on the start line.

    BR: The shedule that Paul has sent me for January doesn' really differ from the RW one. He is going to reevaluate at the end of January as to whether I can increase the miles.  I have asked paul how he will be evaluating it  (i dont have any races planned)but am guessing he will just be looking at my training diary that I will send him and will go from there.

  • Jokerman - If you need to be doing 80m+/week to break 3hr, then you weren't/aren't blessed with alot of talent, or you're doing too many of your runs too slow.

    Doing that got Hilly sub 3 in 2006 as a F40 - 6th F40 in FLM as it was.  I bet she wished she'd had some talent or done her training runs faster!

    Agreed that 6 months is a good timescale to be thinking about, but from the beginning of Dec when the 6 were chosen to VLM day is nearly 4 months, so plenty of time to get in some good mileage on top of the massive IM endurance JBFAR must have.

    JBFAR - interesting approach re. following the plan.  Hope it works out.

  • This whole thing is going to prove farcical if all that is done is "follow the schedule".

    If the schedule is going to be strictly followed until the end of january then as far as I am concerned it has been a complete waste of time having a coach for that period and there will only be about 12 weeks or less before the race. 

    Get real.  There must already be more than enough information about jbfar's running to have been tailoring it to her specific requirements weeks ago.

  • Just back from my first run outside all week! image

    Managed 12 miles in the snow, its not as bad as I thought it would be. I wore my Adizero Tempo which provided loads of grip. The pace was a bit slow only managed 8 min miles, but at least I got a few miles in on the first week of marathon training.

    A bit disappointed that the Stubby 10 has been cancelled tomorrow, however there is an unofficial 10k on the beach in Portsmouth tomorrow. I think I will take a trip down there and use it as a tempo / speed session. 

  • Glad you made it home at last Christina.  Welcome back and hope the delays weren't too ghastly!
  • Well done Tony with the outdoors!

    I had success too! just back from my 7 miler- wasn't too bad, a few slippy bits but all in all not bad.  I even got a nice comment  from a pedestrian "that's dedication for you" so a nice run all in all.  Quite slow ofcourse as bit cautious (8.10 min miles)

    Had a good post run meal- beans on toast with cheese- that's got to be one of the all time post run meals huh!?  Caught the end of the Edinborough International Cross country-conditions looked pretty hairy there!!

    I'll post the training program that Paul sent up so you can see....

  • Jokerman - I take what you're saying about not overloading someone who has not done lots of miles due to the risk of injury etc.  JBFAR is an individual and as you say a talented young women should be able to break 3 hours off 60 miles a week so it will be interesting to see JBFAR do it off a schedule that builds up to running 60 miles and I really wish her well and hope she does it.

    Tony - sounds like you'll have an interesting race on the beach tomorrow.  All races cancelled in this area too except the Leeds parkrun this morning, which I didn't do, but BR did.  Conditions for running in the compacted snow was fine with spikes on, but much slower than normal.

  • Well done to you to Christina, it wasnt that bad, however I think a speed / tempo session might be a bit trickierimage

    What other races have you entered apart from the Bramley 20?

    I have just signed up to Ryde 10M 7 Feb (going to swap the Sun 16M to the Wed and the Wed 10 to Sun).

    Also just entered online for the Meon Valley Plod 28 Feb (I know it says a race of 5M to a half, but another 20M should help)   MVP

  • This is my training plan; Paul will be evaluating it at the end of January but the plan is to up the mileage in february;

    January

    Thursday 7th- Thurs-6 miles easy

    Fri- 5 mile hyf

    Sat – 7 mile hyf

    Sun-12 mile

    Monday 11th

    Mon-5miles easy

    Tues- club session

    Weds- 5mile easy

    Thurs-club session

    Friday –Rest day

    Sat- 8 mile hyf

    Sun-14mile

    Monday 18thMon-5miles easy

    Tues- club session

    Weds- 5mile easy

    Thurs-club session

    Friday –Rest day

    Sat- 8 mile hyf

    Sun-16mile

    Monday 25th

    Mon-5 miles easy

    Tues- club session

    Weds- 5mile easy

    Thurs-club session

    Friday –Rest day

    Sat- 8 mile hyf

  • Race wise:

    I have entered Bramley 20, wokingham half, the Dorney Lake pacing event and hopefully reading half.  I may do the meon valley plod as well just for a training run but have Liz yellings training day the day before so need to find out what we will be doing in that before committing- can you enter last minute for the Meon Valley Plod?

  • Christina - you can enter on the day £2 more I think, however it is a popular race with a limit of 400.

    Hilly - looking forward to the beach run tomorrow, hopefully the sand will be frozen... image How is your training going, well I hope.

  • What an interesting read.

    JBFAR best of luck with the training and racing

    Predictably I side with those who think that the schedule is light on miles. Obvious points to note are that Christina's 10k is fast compared with here marathon pace. Also JM makes the point that the RW schedule is built around two club sessions each week. This seems to me to be a potential weakness, if these sessions are out of Paul/Christina's control.

    On the other hand I have no doubt the Christina has the background, mindset and determination to wring every ounce out of the schedules she has been set - a very similar situation to that with Hilly working with Mike Gratton in 2006. With that in mind, I think that there wouldn't be too much risk in increasing the mileage, as I think Christina would cope. Even if the extra miles didn't deliver the required performance they are still an investment for future racing and training, although of course that view may not be acceptable given the stated objectives of the "project"

    Not withstanding the above, I'll be rooting for you.


  • Tony Smith - not sure where you live, but I wouldnt bother to travel to Pompey to run a 10K on the beach (on the shingle ?) and i live there. There's a nice golf course on the North Side of the Hill at the top of the City and the snow is 10 " deep in places.  But I've spent the last 2 mornings staggering around on there and its dawned on me today that its probably got nothing to do with me running another sub3 at VLM - so I wouldnt bother travelling here for that either.
  •  thanks for the comments.

    Paul knows what my 2 club sessions are and they will be similar each week which is why they have been built into the schedule. 

    Thursday will be 11-12 miles tempo and Tuesdays will be a gradual build up of quality reps from January until April .Starting with 6x1 k first week and building quantity so that 3k reps can be achieved .As the time progresses there will be added  a 3k rep at end at marathon pace ...Its possible that the session will end up at 12k.

    I have the extra advantage that there is a great coach at my club who knows a lot about marathon running and their are alot of people from the club training for the marathon so Tuesday is a quality session.

  • JBFAR - I missed your schedule, when does the proper training begin - just joshing?

    They give out fruit cake, mugs of tea and tots of rum during the MVP.

  • great- MVP sold! are you doing it TR?
  • just back from a run wrote (see)

    This is my training plan; Paul will be evaluating it at the end of January but the plan is to up the mileage in february;

    JanuaryThursday 7th- Thurs-6 miles easy Fri- 5 mile hyfSat – 7 mile hyfSun-12 mile Monday 11th Mon-5miles easyTues- club sessionWeds- 5mile easyThurs-club sessionFriday –Rest daySat- 8 mile hyfSun-14mileMonday 18thMon-5miles easy Tues- club sessionWeds- 5mile easyThurs-club sessionFriday –Rest daySat- 8 mile hyfSun-16mileMonday 25th Mon-5 miles easyTues- club sessionWeds- 5mile easyThurs-club sessionFriday –Rest daySat- 8 mile hyf

    Just to re open the discussion on JBFAR. Having just had a closer look at it comparing it to the RW Sub  3

    that I have defended and successfully used previously it seems to differ somewhat.

    The main differences I can see are the LSR midweek and the obvious club sessions, which in the RW  schedule is aimed at the marathon. Will the Winchester club sessions be aimed at the marathon or the next HRRL event? 

    I really do hope that Christina smashes the sub 3 and look forward to being part of that journey on here.

    TR - have changed my mind as the run isnt going to start untill midday and then that will be most of Sun gone. I live up Nr Waterlooville and run for Stubbington Green RC, how about you? 

    Edit - posted at the same time as JBFAR updated us on her club sessions, after reading them I can see why you now have an easy run on Wed rather than a LSR as per the sub 3 schedule...

  • The tuesdays will be aimed at marathon runners- there are lots in our club and the coach will tailor it to those running marathon. Thursday is just a longish tempo run.  I do find hard runs easier with a club.

    Tony: Not sure about  me smashing sub 3.. i'd be happy and perhaps more realistic with 2.59 something!! but yes will aim as low as possible

  • Jbfar, btw what is 11-12 miles tempo? I thought tempo was like 10k/HM pace so this sounds almost impossibly hard. Is that 11-12 at MP, or with just a session in the middle at tempo?
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