British 10k chip timing

I know this "race" has already been debated to death and sorry if this has already been raised.  I got a flyer yesterday which I've just read and the good news is the British 10k is introducing chip timing for 2010.  The bad news is you have to pay more for the chip as an optional extra!  What kind of race is that where some people are timed and others aren't? 

It reckon its just got worse and I'll be voting with my feet and hard earned money - by not entering.

Comments

  • Brilliant ! I do hope they factor that into that ranting bit where they compare the costs of their race favourably compared to others.
  • Chip times have no purpose, other than for personal information, so it doesnt make any difference whether some have chip timing and others dont.
  • Chip timing at the British 10k. Its going to be a shambles like the fun run itself.
    If there another race on the day. Opt for that one and leave this to charity and fun runners.
  • parkrunfan wrote (see)
    Chip times have no purpose, other than for personal information, so it doesnt make any difference whether some have chip timing and others dont.
    Times do have a purpose tho parkrunfan.  How else can people be put in order of finishing? Its not a race otherwise.  I like to know not just what my own time is but how far down the field I am.  If only half the people in the race are timed then its a nonsense.  Its not as if those without chips will be timed manually - they won't be. 
  • PRF - the british 10k doesn't bother timing past the first 50 or so - so if you don't pay - you don't get a time.
  • This race is a total and utter shambles. Always was - and always will be uness people stop entering it.

    I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, even if it was half the price and included the chip!

  • Soup Dragon wrote (see)
    parkrunfan wrote (see)
    Chip times have no purpose, other than for personal information, so it doesnt make any difference whether some have chip timing and others dont.
    Times do have a purpose tho parkrunfan.  How else can people be put in order of finishing? Its not a race otherwise.  I like to know not just what my own time is but how far down the field I am.  If only half the people in the race are timed then its a nonsense.  Its not as if those without chips will be timed manually - they won't be. 


    Eh?

    Everyone is timed as usual with gun times - that is the only finishing order that has any relevance.

    In any race, chip times may be noted but they are never 'official' times.

    All that chips do is replicate the method of starting your watch when you cross the line so that you have effectively deducted the time it takes for you to get to the start line from the gun time. But this is only for your own interest NOT for finishing order.

    If you take 15 minutes to cross the start line in VLM you are have already taken 15 minutes, just as it has always been.

    And as for the other comment of 'It wouldnt be a race otherwise' - well, nuff said!image

  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭
    parkrunfan wrote (see)

    In any race, chip times may be noted but they are never 'official' times.

    All that chips do is replicate the method of starting your watch when you cross the line so that you have effectively deducted the time it takes for you to get to the start line from the gun time. But this is only for your own interest NOT for finishing order.

    If you take 15 minutes to cross the start line in VLM you are have already taken 15 minutes, just as it has always been.

     

    I've been in several races where everyone is chipped, and it's the chipped time that is the official time.

  • PRF - the British 10k is 'special'.

    They DONT BOTHER TIMING PEOPLE.

    I do agree that the gun time is the one for race results - but in the big races - that chip time is the one that counts to qualify for London etc.
  • Wilkie wrote (see)
    parkrunfan wrote (see)

    In any race, chip times may be noted but they are never 'official' times.

    All that chips do is replicate the method of starting your watch when you cross the line so that you have effectively deducted the time it takes for you to get to the start line from the gun time. But this is only for your own interest NOT for finishing order.

    If you take 15 minutes to cross the start line in VLM you are have already taken 15 minutes, just as it has always been.

     

    I've been in several races where everyone is chipped, and it's the chipped time that is the official time.

    'Official' in what sense?

    Lets say a runner finishes 2nd by 3 seconds but started 5 seconds behind the runner finishing 1st .......is the 2 nd place runner the 'official' winner? Of course not!

    This is Uk Athletic's take on chip times:

    In road races, the times recorded for rankings purposes will be the "gun" times. This is to ensure consistency over all races both now and in the past to reflect that rankings represent a record of performances done under direct competition whereby the results of a race are ordered by the order that athletes cross a common finish line after a common start. This is also the common method used by statisticians worldwide.

    We do recognise that in some large races some athletes may not have an clear run as soon as the gun goes and so, when available, we will also endeavour to record "chip" times and to present these alongside the "gun" times to assist the reader in comparing performances.

    It is an impossibility to have an actual 'race' based on chip times because you wouldnt have a clue who you  were racing against or whether someone in front of you was actually behind you and vice versa. It would be nonsense.

    So an individual race may publish chip times for the sake of simplicity but those times would not stand up as any sort of 'official' record of performance, just useful to know from a personal viewpoint. 

  • parkrunfan wrote (see)
    So an individual race may publish chip times for the sake of simplicity but those times would not stand up as any sort of 'official' record of performance, just useful to know from a personal viewpoint. 
    True - the race result is the order you cross the line - but London Marathon uses chip times for GFA entries, so it's not true to say they're irrelevant.
  • True enough, but that is just an arbitary decision made by VLM for dishing out places - they are free to use any method they wish.

  • parkrunfan wrote (see)
    Soup Dragon wrote (see)
    parkrunfan wrote (see)
    Chip times have no purpose, other than for personal information, so it doesnt make any difference whether some have chip timing and others dont.
    Times do have a purpose tho parkrunfan.  How else can people be put in order of finishing? Its not a race otherwise.  I like to know not just what my own time is but how far down the field I am.  If only half the people in the race are timed then its a nonsense.  Its not as if those without chips will be timed manually - they won't be. 


    Eh?

    Everyone is timed as usual with gun times - that is the only finishing order that has any relevance.

    Thats the problem  PRF - as Cougie says, everyone isn't timed at this race, not even gun times!  So I see little point in paying extra for a timing chip - it has to be all or nothing.  The funny thing is it that they are selling the chip idea as "as worn by Paula Radcliffe" !   Makes me laugh and cross at the same time.  image
  • parkrunfan wrote (see)

    Everyone is timed as usual with gun times - that is the only finishing order that has any relevance.

    In any race, chip times may be noted but they are never 'official' times.

    The published London Marathon finishing order and the 'official' times are a mixture of both gun & chip times.  For most runners they use chip times.  Championship runners get the gun time, which in practice is only a few seconds behind chip time since they're at the front of the blue start. 
  • Cheerful Dave wrote (see)
    parkrunfan wrote (see)

    Everyone is timed as usual with gun times - that is the only finishing order that has any relevance.

    In any race, chip times may be noted but they are never 'official' times.

    The published London Marathon finishing order and the 'official' times are a mixture of both gun & chip times.  For most runners they use chip times.  Championship runners get the gun time, which in practice is only a few seconds behind chip time since they're at the front of the blue start. 


    Hence, the Championship is the only true race going on on VLM day.

    The rest is not a race -how can it be if you have no idea who you are racing against, the fundamental requirement of a race?

    You basically have the race, ie the Championship, and then a huge bunch of people doing individual time trials.

    I go back to the fact that you cannot have a finishing order based on chip times in a race - it would defy the basic definition (see previous post quoting UK Athletics) of what a race actually is. 

  • No one apart from the first 50 plus those who pay for a chip get a time in this "race"

    I noticed last year that they were offering chip timing as an extra (I have no intention of ever entering this event and am amazed that they get so many participants each year)

  • Anyway - the point is, this race is a rip-off at £5 per mile.  If the VLM charge the same rate, we'd be paying £125 to enter.

    I'll be running the Tadley 10k in early July.  £11 to enter and you get a technical T-shirt for finishing... 'nuff said!

  • PRF - what about that Marathon in the States - I think it was a Nike sponsored one - a woman in the mass start had a faster time than the Elite start - and the papers kicked up a fuss and she got some trophy or other.

    (personally I would say thats her own look out - if she's not in the Elite start then how can she win - and she must be stupid if she didnt realise she was that fast)

    Its a bit unfair to say that the mass start in VLM isnt a race. Of course it is. Maybe not for placings - but definitely for time.
  • Didn't that happen at Helsby 4 Villages a couple of years back in the womens race ?
  • I ran this race a few years ago while working in London & to be honest i would have been better off going for a jog on my own through the centre of London & saved myself £30.Badly organised & crowded & a finish with no time. Bupa 10K i thought was far superior.
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