Sunday Feb 21st 2010

GobiGobi ✭✭✭
What: 20 miles AM
Turbo PM
Why: Marathon training
Last hard: yesterday
Last rest 29th January
Last non run day: 19th Feb


  • gobi gobi make me smile! I up at 5.30 to do easy 7 with dog, seen slight blizzard outside window. dont mind the snow - thats what snow chains are for, but kind of hard to see when it coming down in sheets! sloped to chair with toast! if it still raging at 7 its out with the dreadmill. Man or mouse? small furry rodent anyday
  • Morning!

    Similar weather to softbod here (hi!) - wasn't expecting that and could make todays 20 miler even more 'interesting' than expected. Will just have to HTFU and see what it's like once I'm out there I guess, I couldn't even begin to contemplate 20 miles on the treadie.

    What:                  hopefully 20 mile LS(nowy)R
    Why:                    ultra training
    Last hard:             24/1.
    Last rest:               15/2.

    Lyrics - I think Gobi's used them before but no.

    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Morning!

    Quite a lot of snow here too, which does not look good for Ald's Trafford 10k.

    Back later.

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  •  knew yesterday's but wasn't here, still thinking about gobi's..

    LMH and softbod - same here. came in at 1.30 which is stupid o'clock for me, cold but clear, and got up to go for long run but the sky has emptied overnight and stymied the plan. will run but won't be as far as planned in this so make up the rest on the cross trainer

    LMH - two 20 milers in a row is stern stuff. you will be well knackered tonight. what's your plan for the rest of the week, shorter stuff or does it just carry on like this till the taper ?

    lots of tips on running relaxed from yesterday, this is something i need to work on. my physio uses similar language and imagery to sharkie but the other ideas are helpful too.

    good TT's from gobi, RFJ and jason (if the others can't be bothered to turn up you earned it)

    lots of saturday long runs going on, good stuff from sporta, irma, mava, NZC, SGQ.  i wish  i'd been around to get mine done before this blinking snow came back! however useful day visiting various people well spent

    encouraging progress, and without the orthotics, alehouse. be interested to see how you go on with the weaning.

    sounds too much like wartime austerity in the mava house - have you thought of moving!

    managed to see some of the athletics on tv while visiting - enjoyed the mens 3000m. didn''t that lady long jumper have amazingly long legs?

    good luck all racers, hope the racing routes are clear

  • Clink - basically my knees are shot and can't cope with high mileage (i.e. anything over about 35 miles/week for me) so the idea is to load lots of miles in a short time - did Fri/Sat/Sun runs of 11/20/14 last weekend - then let the knees recover by returning to the turbo and swimming with probably only 1 midweek run - did 13 on Wednesday last week. Not long until the ultra (21st March) after which my beloved running will take a back seat and my knees may forgive me!
    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Disgusted when I looked out of the window.  Have no problems doing today's long run in the snow - but already thinking of the necessary compromises to tomorrow's basic speed session.

    What:  a.m. 14m easy, p.m. core at gym

    Why:  Base.

    Last Hard:  Yesterday

    Weight reduction is still going to plan.

    W / e 24/01 160.5lbs 5.8% 

    W / e 31/01  159.7lbs 6% 

    W / e 07/02  158.75lbs 5.3% 

    W / e 14/02  156.75lbs 5.3%

    W / e 21/02 156.5lbs 5%

  • 6 or so recovery miles in a short while through the snow. Doesnt look too icy - just slushy 5hite. Glad i got the long run in yesterday.

    Tipp - with everything going on do you think 2:25 would be a realistic target. It would be fantastic for you to get the type of support proposed!!

    Moraghan/ Tipp (and others). what distance do you think should be longest in half marathon build up?. Should i go much over distance. Is there a benefit? 

    Dont know the lyrics. 

  • Did actually venture out - best snow run ever! Dog wild round nature reserve, not a soul about and absolutely gorgeous! dropped poor old dog at home and did another lap without him! The snow is ace! as long as it doesn't turn to sheet ice in time for wednesdays 16 miler...........
  • Paddy

    The longer the better in my opinion, but with the caveat that the long run fits in proportionately to your weekly mileage and doesn't reduce your ability to complete the important quality runs during the week.  I think training for any distance of 5k and up should be aiming for a weekly long run of 16 miles or more.

    At the very least you should be doing a long run of equal duration to your predicted time.  That, combined with some upper aerobic / LT work would tick all the boxes to complete effectively.  However, to start really exploring your potential I would say a regular 16 miler is desirable - which of course means weekly mileage of a minimum of 50+.

    In addition to the usual effects of more running there is research (or is it theory proven by results - never sure with this lot) from the Snell / Lydiard school which suggests that as muscle fibres tire new ones are recruited, therefore the longer you go the more groups of fibres that tire and therefore the more new groups are recruited and exhausted.  The theory being that a short long run doesn't tire out many groups of fibres and therefore you leave too many 'untouched'.  (Although I believe, they may be fired by shorter, harder work).

    Here's a piece that goes into more detail:

  • mavamava ✭✭✭

    morning all

    no snow in Kent just freezing cold rain.  Not something that normally bothers me but with no shower or central heating......brrrrrr

    clink - you always put me to shame by commenting on everything!

    My garmin won't register my HRM strap but another runner ran post on the other side of the road this morning and my garmin registered his HRM!!  Still waiting to hear back from garmin about mine.  Without it I'm running too fast.  Today's run was meant to be recovery but ended up 30-40 sec/mile faster than that.

    What: 7.25 miles in cold rain
    Why: I'm mildly obsessive (see below)
    Last hard: that was
    Last rest: 7 Jan

    So, weekly mileage?   60.01.  My highest ever I think!  That .01  is very irritating image

    My hands are so cold I can hardly type.  Time for a coffee before braving the freezing kitchen for a wash.

  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    Paddy - about 15 miles

    LMH - I have but given the weather they seemed apt

    I got a bit wet but the 20 miles with Twiggy were very socialable as we ended up averaging about 7.04 pace off some slow early miles. I think poor Twiggys legs were in shock at the lack of pace for about 5 miles.
  • Gobi - I thought so - and I still don't know them!

    18 secs/mile average slower than yesterday but surprisingly comfortable. A little bit of that time will be down to the conditions underfoot and the rest to tiredness I guess. Happy with that.

    Clink - it was bothering me on my run, I lied to you - that was the weekend before lasts  mileage, last weekend I had an easier one (needed to be social for Valentimes day) so did 21 and 4 on the Friday, just 6 on the Saturday and 3 hours on the mtb on the Sunday.

    mava - my Garmin has never picked up another's HR - even when Mark and I run side-by-side with them on - yours must have developed superpowers! Will think how lucky I am as I lay in my nice hot bath shortly.

    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Afternoon folks.

    Paddy - re: HM long runs. 20m+ for the reason as stated by Moraghan. Short version is that as you fatigue your slow twitch you recruit fast twitch which eventually adapt.
    re: 2:25, short answer, yes image Long answer: I've got a slightly altered approach planned (including one complete rest day a week for the next 3 months). By my reckoning I was there or thereabouts 2:25 good at Edinburgh last year, but got done by the heat. I'm sure I can be much much fitter than that by Berlin (new target too inside the cut-off date image ) - 7 months = massive base time. I've decided to only do 1 exam this summer to reduce some of the load; it's too good an opportunity to ignore, so thank you for posting it up image

    Moraghan - from those stats you appear to be losing some lean mass too. Is that part of the plan?

    Haven't really had a chance to read back, but looks like some nice performances yesterday.

    What: A very sociable 20.25m @ 7:08m/m with Gobi.
    Why: Return of Twiggy the Marafun runner image
    Last hard: a very slow first mile!
    Last rest: yesterday.
    Lyrics: no.

    That makes 80+ for the week. Next week should see the return of ton-ups and a bit of effort all being well.

    Run well all!

  • Hello image LMH, which ultra?
  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    whoops I got the distance wrong
  • Afternoon peeps,

    busy weekend so will have to catch up with the thread tomorrow in my lunch break!  Chucking down with freezing rain here.  Yuk - glad I'm back home!  Bit treacherous in places where the rain fell on frozen ground.  Some interesting pirouettes for the sake of staying upright!

    Nice doubles here, LMH.  Hope the knees hold up.

    mava: brrrrrr.  I forgot to turn the hot water on, so a lukewarm shower for me today but at least the lounge is cozy and there will be hot water later.

    What: 17 miles with 12 at marathon pace
    Why: training plan
    Last hard: Wed
    Last rest: 11/2
    Lyrics: nope

    I just added my weekly mileage and it's 79!!!  Dopy doughnut that I am -- copied the training plan down incorrectly and did an additional sesh that wasn't supposed to be there.  D'uh!  Rest day tomorrow.  The silly part of me thinks "should have done 80"  image
  • chickadee - great week's training and tough run today.  Great stuff.

    My 14-miler today was done on completely dead legs.  72 miles this week and the best week so far overall in terms of training quality.  Knackered now and it's in the ice bath soon.

    TT - the figures are from body fat scales, so I take the bf% with a very large pinch of salt.  In the past I've had 2% bf on these scales so how accurate can they be!  If I lose a bit of upper body lean mass that's fine by me as I've backed off the tennis a lot.  I swear my upper calves have got slightly bigger this year - they are like sparrows kneecaps now. 

    Best of luck in the preparation for Berlin.  You do realise if you break 2:25 I'm (we are?) going to be egging you on to target the 2012 Olympic marathon trials.  You'd 'only' be about 25 seconds a mile from being in the mix.

  • Hi AJH! This one.

    Chick - you'll know you've really got it bad if you find yourself going out for a 'recovery mile' later!

    Moraghan - I think Paddy already is!

    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Tee hee, LMH.  If I were on my own I probably would ... but Mr. Chick will make sure the house is locked and he's hidden all keys!  

  • Afternoon all,

    • What:  Garmin says 19m so I'll take that.
    • Why:  It's sunday
    • Last Hard: ?
    • Last Rest:  14/1

    Have a good one!

  • Hello!

    Excellent training mileages Chickadee (sounded tough today!), Mava (also impressive Garmin to pick up the other runner from the other side of the street), Moraghan (+quality!) and TT (although I guess that's still relatively low for you!)

     Well done on the double 20 milers LMH.  The day after I did my 20 milers I was barely fit for a recovery run!

     Question for TT is... GB or Ireland...?

     What:  10.1 miles easy
    Why:  balancing a long run with keeping fresh for a session tomorrow (which itself may be doubtful if this weather keeps up)
    Last hard:  theoretically yesterday
    Last rest:  14/2/10

    Had a fall of snow overnight, but by the time I went for my run it had turned into 10 miles of the world's dirtiest slush puppy.  Was pleased with my weekly mileage but I've been put to shame here! 48.7, thankfully no ultras or marathons planned here for a couple of years!

    Enjoy the rest of the day

  • GobiGobi ✭✭✭
    Jason - don't worry mate I only did a 50 mile week :¬)
  • 200m on the turbo
  • Good afternoon all.

    Lots of v. impressive long running going on in daunting conditions: AF, Chickadee, LMH, TT, Gobi, Paddy, mava and all.

    Mava, I've missed out on why you are in the cold, shall have to read back. Not a day I would like to be without shower or heat. (This comes to you from in front of the gas fire.)

    I too looked out the window this morning and thought Grrrrrrr.

    Me? After a week of travelling, there was a need for a longish run whatever the weather. Had a meeting yesterday with the RunForPhil committee, getting the last bits in place. Today the plan was to run from home to the Sailing Club, where there is a working party trimming the willows. In view of the weather, and being a bit late up, decided to can the loop at the beginning, but still go the pretty way which is about 8 miles. Decided therefore to run the whole way no walking.

    Stopped snowing/slushing, and was very pleasant running. Dabchicks on the river. Dead trees adorned with cormorants in lieu of leaves, stretching their necks to get a better view. Not just a couple of them either - must have been at least ten in two trees.

    Got to the club, everybody was looking very busy, so decided simply to run back. Starting tired, I decided on run/walk 6.5/1.5. I was tired, the wind was against me, so it was all good practice for the last miles on the 13th. Think, double amputees can walk by driving their hips forward with their shoulders, keep this in mind and bully weary legs home.

    On the way out, 8.5 miles in 1hr 50, on the way home, 6.3 miles in 1hr 30. I can't deny that I am tired, but even though it was short for a long run, I am well satisfied with that. Seeing how quickly I recover will be the real test of increasing fitness.
  • Afternoon all,

     Well what a disaster, 4 inches of snow in Manchester so the race called off. Woke up early enough to realise it'd be cancelled so drove 2 hours home at 6.30am in hope that there'd be no snow here and our cross country league race would be luck there either. Another cancellation. Was going for 37mins Moraghan.


    What: 16.5 hilly miles in the snow.

    Why: Because I couldn't run any faster with the snow so was the best quality workout I could do in the situation and a bonus extra training run for the Kilomathon.

    Turned out to be one of the most pleasant long runs in a while and snow forces you to take the pace easy so still feel relatively fresh afterwards. Trafford 10km looks like it should be rearrange for 7th March which would still make a good tune up race for Derby 10km peak in April.

    Apparently snow is forcast in midlands all week so looks like Tuesday's track workout will have to be improvised on the hills instead.

    LMH very impressive. I'm ready for my sunday roast and afternoon snooze after todays run, nevermind motivating myself for another tomorrow.

  • Afternoon,

    Some impressive miles being put in, not least by Stickless.

    Chick , get out there and do know you want to and will regret it if you don't!

    What: 20 mins slippy, steady , recovery run on snowy/slushy river bank (no orthotics again)

    Why: a touch of caution 

    Last hard: yesterday
    Last rest: Dec 21
    Lyrics: I've heard them somewhere before, but still can't name them.

    On the long run advice, Paddy, what is you rcurrent long run? I'd be looking initially to make it 90 mins, then build to 2 hours plus. And I'd make it off road if poss.

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • afternoon

    some good long ones being banked tihs w/e - standout effort has got to be Mavas with no hot shower/bath to come home to image

    another determined effort there Stickless

    it all melted fairly quickly here so

    what: 13.0 miles in 105:54
    why: actually haven't had a double-figures mileage run since Helsby due to calf issues etc - so one was way overdue

    not an especially enjoyable one thanks to a) the cold and b) running in the hated Mizunos, but at least it's banked

    lyrics - two blanks for the weekend

  • ALD - sounds as though you may be near me? I'm in Derby.

    Stickless - well run, sounds beautiful on the way out. The snow was quite a positive for me this morning in some ways as it meant that the landscape was very different from yesterday giving me lots of things to look at, yesterday I saw a field fayre (? sp) and today an owl.

    If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
  • Afternoon, well evening now.

    What: 9 miles slow...still slightly hung over from last night image
    Why: marathon
    Last hard: Thursday
    Last rest: Friday

    Lyrics: and for those reasons...I'm out

    Waited quite a while to go on the run today to get over the hangover a bit. Slumped on the couch watching winter Olympics until I finally dragged myself off around 3.00 and went out. Now to have a much craved, much deserved smoked salmon bagel. Yummmmmm. Enjoy the rest of Sunday and have a good Monday. Rest day for me tomorrow.
  • Enjoy that bagel pjlover, it's often harder going out later rather than sooner so good on yer girl.

    What: Sunday morning track
    Why: Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday. 3 track sessions a week. That's how it goes.
    Lyrics: Nope

    Didn't get round to posting Thursday track (the nation breathes a collective sigh of relief) It was tough  - as expected - coming after Tuesday's heroics and circuits on Wednesday. I was much slower but fine about it, accepting I was working tired legs. Late night and red wine at J.'s birthday on Wednesday an added zip-zapper.

    Today was cold and wet although the very worst of it was before we started and then last rep onwards.
    Just me and the boys. No J, no C.

    P. announced we needed to keep moving so I think the planned session was binned and shortish recoveries with (ostensibly) less speedy reps undertaken instead. Told him I was still tired in spite of the day off yesterday. So 6 x 200s for me, 6 x 250s for P and the Old Feller, and 6 x 300 for the 4 boys. About 150 walk recovery - I had to scamper off to get back to my start point.

    Rough times: 38, 36, 35, 38, 38, 39. I ran from the 100 start, finishing at the 300 start beyond the top bend. I must have dropped about 4 seconds on the last 30 metres every time as I ran into the wind and my legs started feeling it those last few metres. Reps certainly nothing like full out. I can always tell because I don't get the doubled over, ribs and stomach hurting, gasp for air sick feeling. Sure sign legs are tired, it's impossible to push more. So I was happy enough with reps 2 and 3 - could tell that form was good on the straight.

    I think there has been a sea change with my running. It's not permanent yet and I'll have to eat my words if my race times don't improve. But I definitely feel faster for less effort when it all comes together. My stride HAS lengthened, without losing any cadence. I am picking my feet up quickly. Without even thinking about it I could tell I was almost kicking my bum as I ran - without there being anything prancey or over bouncy about it.

    Or is it all in my head?

    Better read back and clock the usual sterling Sunday efforts.

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