Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
I've decided to give Base Training a go...
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Interesting. I have begun loosely following David Holt's 10k 30 mile per week plan. He includes a weekly fartlek run, including up to 3 miles of "quality", even in the novice base phase and, for more advanced runners on 40 miles per week, suggests two quality sessions, e.g. fartlek and hills.
I have to say I find it hard enough to keep below 75% of heart rate reserve, let alone 70%. Also, because I am not quite sure if I know my max HR, I don't want to go too slowly. I have done a maximal test (2x 3 mins at highest sustainable pace, can't remember rest interval but maybe 60-90s) but it's hard to be sure, isn't it?
It's getting late so a quick one. As the topic under discussion is essentially about how to raise your LT, because we are likely agreed that increasing that contributes a better marathon, then the simple answer is that faster than MP workouts help raise the threshold also.
If you consider MP is beneath the threshold, HM is approx around it or just under and 'classic tempo' is around it or just over, perhaps I should reverse the question and ask why is it that only by working beneath the LT can you hope to raise it? Training for more or less every distance / physiological variable is predicated by working at pace, above it and below it. You're hitting something you want to improve from every angle.
More specifically running at faster speeds than MP can help neuromuscular efficiency, increase oxygen uptake in the muscle fibres* and increase lactate consumption rate* ("most of the lactate is used by the muscles in which it was produced").
*Ref: the last two points are explained in more detail in Renato Canova's IAAF book 'Marathon Training - A Scientific Approach'.
A thread with his contributions here - I expect you to read it all and report back as I had to read the thing you posted!
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=458338&page=0
Since Lydiard training staples have been mentioned - from quotes from runners he coached it sounds like the runs during the base building were a lot faster than 70% WHR - so where does this 70% figure from?
One quote from Lydiard I found this evening mentioned exercising at 70-100% of aerobic capacity produced the best results during the base building phase; is there a way of translating this into heart rates to make it a tad easier to relate to for those of us that want to use HRMs as a training tool?
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=18496
Is this sufficient?
Lots to catch up on it seems, I'll have a read through the letsrun thread and Moraghan's responses when I have reliable internet. But it seems my decision to base train is getting a lot of attention
I'm now used to running slower than before, and my ego's not suffering much either. I'm quite content to go out and run based on time rather than distance. I did a hilly 13.1 last weekend, only averaged 9:01/mile but I was happier with the fact I ran for 2 hours rather than the distance.
I'm starting to see early benefits. On a nice, flat route today, on a nearly windless hour, I averaged 8:15 miles over my 7.3 mile route and came in just 2 seconds shy over the hour - when I first did that route 3 weeks ago I did 1:03. Yesterday I did 16.3 miles at 8:30/mile pace as well, compared with early running at 8:40/mile.
I have posted the same question on fetch, but I'll ask it here too.
Is there any benefit to running below 70% MHR? For example, if you were feeling a bit fatigued one day so decided to take it easy(er) than normal. Am I right in assuming you get the same benefits, but just slower?
I'm going to also start strides tomorrow (admittedly I should have been doing them sooner) and I'm going to do a longer run on Wednesday with some MP in the middle section.
Hi all thought i would post as theres been no posts for a bit , hopefully it will ignite some more debate on Base training.
After a dissapointing Marathon at Brighton last sunday for me 4.23 compared to 3.57 last year ive, decided to go back to basics ie Base training with a target half Marathon in mid October this year.
This gives me roughly 24 weeks training time .So can anyone on here give me some guidance on to what sort of timescales within the 24 weeks that i should give to different training phases .
Here's what I was planning on doing, regarding periodization.
Weeks 1 to 16 - base training. Nothing but easy running. Building up to, and maintaining 65mpw. I also have a few low-priority races during this time (one a month today).
Weeks 17 to 23 - HMP development. Plenty of running at my aspirational pace to develop lactic threshold (including finishing long runs at HMP). Longer intervals (4 * 1.5 miles @ 10k pace possibly) to work the LT as well and help VO2 max development.
Week 24 - taper.
I have local 10-mile and HM races in July, which I'm going to be using as progress indicators.
With regards to my current training, since the last few days have been windy I haven't been able to see exactly what my pace is at <75% MHR. However, my pace seems to have improved from 9:00/mile to 8:40/mile on windy days. I reckon I'm about 8:15/mile on a calm day.
Re on weeks 1-16 Base training nothing but easy running .Two questions on this period for you Duckinator Did you work out your heart rate level through a max test? and within that do you work out the figs with tacking your resting heart rate into consideration too?
Also do you do any strides within this Base period as prescribed by Moraghan?
What you seem to be referring to with regards to resting HR is working heart rate, am I right? I did some running to working heart rate but I found it difficult to work out on the fly, so I just run to 75% MHR instead. Besides, variations in your resting HR from day to day mean you'd have to recalibrate your 65% WHR (for example) each day. No, max HR is much easier to go by IMO.
I try to do strides as much as possible, sometimes I forget
Thanks for that Duckinator so i guess you do that sess once a week then?
Well im going to do my max test on a hill on Sunday night ,then i t begins on Monday am!
This does take patience. It'll be 6 weeks before you see any big benefits (I've been going for 5 weeks now and haven't seen much improvement so far).
Yeah thats the impression i get ,but it stands to reason that to become faster we need to have a great base which takes time to develop corectlly.
As i say after The last few races where ive crashed and burned after two thirds race distance ie Half mara 20 mile marathon, i need to get aerobically " Fit" first before the quicker running. And it will get some strength in the legs with the increase in miles.
What sort of race times are you currently at and what is your target time for your half Mara race Duckinator?
Currently, my PB's look like this:
5K - 20:30
10k - 44:58
HM - 1:33:45
Due to living where I am (Aberdeenshire, NE of Scotland) races are very rare. I haven't raced a 10k or 5k in over half a year, simply because there AREN'T any races. However, there are 2 summer races (5 & 10k) which will give me up to date times. I'm hoping for sub-20 5k and sub-41 10k. I'm aiming for a sub 1:30 half.
wHR uses your resting HR as calculated "every once in a while", not each day. The idea is that two runners both with a max of, say, 180 bpm, but one with rHR of 45 bmp and the other 60 bpm, will be in different "aerobic places" at 75% maxHR (135 bpm). wHR tries to take account of this. So runner 1 would use 139.5 for 70% wHR where as runner 2 would use 144 bpm. I started with Paker's book, so I use wHR ... and also Fetch site, where I log my training, use wHR.