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Moraghan Coaching - kaysdee
kaysdee Kelly
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Hello 
Another guinea pig here. My short term target is the Abingdon marathon in October, but my main focus is to learn how to train more effectively and carry any improvements into the future.
I have a rough target time of sub 3.30, but technically I “should” be able to achieve that using various calculators at my current fitness now. The test is putting it into practice.
I plan to evaluate this target nearer the time based on results of races between now and then.
A longer term goal (however many years it takes) is to achieve around an early 40’s 10k, 1.30 half and a 3.15 marathon.
I’ve been running for just over 2 years and don’t claim to be anything more than an average runner, but am keen to see how far I can go.
I started out at 30mpw and have built that up to 60mpw currently.
My weakness is in not having a clear purpose for each session and pacing issues.
I feel that I have lots of room to train smarter.
I am aware that the relationship between my pb’s and distances do not equate so this is also what I want to work on.
Current pb’s –
5k – 21.03
10k – 45.34 (from last year, hoping to beat that on Sunday)
5M – 35.17
10M – 1.14
Half – 1.41.10
Mara – 3.50.34 (from a year ago, have improved lots since then. Hopefully!)
Age – 33
Height – 5’ 5
Weight – 8st 10 (maybe a couple pounds heavier right now)
BMI – 20.3
Weekly mileage – 60mpw over 6 days
I won’t put up a training schedule for the next couple of weeks as it will look very boring, since I am tapering for Blackpool Marathon on 11th April.
I have 3 children, aged 6, 4 and 3 so my training has to fit in around them.
As such I tend to do my LSR on a Thurs or Fri.
My eldest two are in school and my youngest just started playgroup today that that gives me a little more flexibility and a bit less of a guilt complex (!)
To be truthful, I started running to help deal with the stresses of having a young family, further complicated by the fact my oldest child has a number of disabilities.
I suppose I was “running away”, but very very quickly fell in love with the rewards of running and have developed quite a competitive streak.
I do love a good race.
Not to sound like an advertising campaign, but it will be relevant in my early training schedule – I’m running the Kent 50 Mile Challenge in July to fundraise for my son’s school - so after I have raced Blackpool, I am doing both Edinburgh and Chester marathons in May at training pace. I approached Moraghan for advice on a plan leading up to Abingdon thinking it would need to be exclusive of Kent, but he has pointed out that I can follow a longer marathon plan tweaked to account for the higher mileage I’ll need for July.
Anyway. I’m certain of a big improvement in my marathon time in 2 weeks and looking forward to seeing an overhaul of how I currently train and what new sessions I'll be doing in the future.
Can I also admit to being a little afraid of, yet frequently amused by, Moraghan’s bedside manner 
.
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Comments
Not a distance runner myself but really looking forward to following your progress kaysdee. I like your atttitude - it's great when one almost stumbles into an activity and very quickly starts thinking, 'hmm, I like this: I wonder how far intelligent application might take me....'
Good luck lass!
Hi Kaysdee
Good luck in the marathon. As you say, we'll just watch for the time being. Off line a couple of weeks back we tried to rationalise K's race plans (and pretty much failed in the face of fundraising commitments) and also instilling some pace discipline during the runs.
Like most runners the main problem will be reining in the enthusiasm! For the number of races (halfs, marathons and an ultra), the pace of runs and overall mileage. I suggested we stay at 60 miles for the rest of the year, as there's been a bit of overuse injury lately, k's a relatively new runner and she's doing quite a few arduous races. 4 marathons and an ultra is really too much (but K's fundraising efforts are important to her) but I felt like I had to bargain her down to that so she's not racing them all too hard!
As K's mileage target has already been met for a while it gives us a background to quality work already. It also means that when introducing new quality work we are able to control the other variables, i.e. a new workout is not introduced in conjunction with more mileage, so we know the cause of any problems. Because her long runs are already established it also gives us a lot more flexibility over the things we can do with the long runs to increase fitness and tolerance - such as ocasionally using variable pace long runs, progressive long runs and incorporating some MP running.
This is something worth considering for those who follow marathon schedules and who typically, when the plan says for a runner on 40 miles a week, first hit 40 miles the week before the schedule starts. Also as the main target is quite far away we have flexibility to explore these other races and absorb real life things like holidays / colds etc.
I don't want to put a number on Abingdon as that's arse about tit (another criticism of most marathon schedules). I suspect MP training will be based on current fitness until about 8 weeks before at which point the focus will turn to deciding a target pace and then extending the work at that pace.
Interesting!
Good luck Kaysdee.
Exactly the reason why I started running myself, to escape the kids - and then I found I liked it!
I ran 3.32 at Lochaber in 2007 having only started running 6 months before that. I think I did about 50 mpw on average. I had a 1.38.30 HM time then so it's doable for sure. You seem to have the basic speed required too judging by the 5 mile time.
What is your time goal for Blackpool? (which I was doing myself until last week, back to Lochaber again for me)
How do you plan to run during the summer hols? I have always found it difficult to marathon train when my kids are off and my husband works long erratic hours but hope to manage it this summer and do Abingdon too.
Thanks, Sharkie. My OH is very supportive, although thinks I'm quite mad, but he especially appreciates how I need and want to run.
Moraghan, in retrospect, definitely too much too soon. I should certainly have showed more discipline in concentrating on improving speed rather than distance. When I got a 1.43 half, it was "ok, let's tackle a marathon". Something you have mentioned on other threads that a lot of people do" just because". When I did a couple of marathons it turned into "so how far can I go?", hence the ultra and committing to that fundraising (despite fundraising never really being on my radar for any motivation in any of my races, it would have just been a shame to miss the opportunity in the school's current targets). Sometimes it's best not to push too much though, hence the injury when I peaked at 75 miles. I think 60 is about a good number for now.
I kind of wish I'd gotten really good, or as good as I could have been, at one distance before moving on. I was actually considering concentrating on 10k and half next year to hammer my time down. As you mentioned in Midland Runner's thread, my focus has been on marathons and any improvements in other race times have been incidental. I'm curious what would happen specifically targeting half's for a period. I would guess you can race 2 marathons a year at a push - in your opinion how many half's could you peak at in a year? I do love to race. Anyway, that's next year!
Sue, I followed your progress last year on the Super 6. That is interesting about your times. I don't think my half time (Brass Monkey in Jan) is representative of where my fitness was/is at (she says
), I was going for around 1.39, but had been ill that week and even in my warmup my breathing was trashed. I suffer a bit of exercise induced asthma and of course it hit that day.
The injury mentioned above - biomechanical problem resulting in some ITB and patella issues, I just got orthotics last week - happened 4 weeks ago? I had 2 weeks off, 2 weeks back training and now 2 weeks of taper. Also indicated, I've had to balance going for a good marathon time and not killing myself for Kent. Originally I would have said I was only going for a pb/GFA time (which happens to be 3.50 now), but I still think I can be capable of 3.35-3.40 and reckon I'll set off at 3.35 pace. Anything I get is roughly to see where I am, but Abingdon is my main target.
Yes, Blackpool... I understand why you've switched to Lochaber. I'm committed (or maybe that should read should be committed
) to Blackpool due to accommodation etc. We discussed dropping to the half marathon or scrapping it altogether and racing Edinburgh rather than doing that at LSR pace, but I decided to just bite the bullet at Blackpool as I don't want to stress about getting a good time at that stage and trying to recover for Kent. Fortunately I never drink Lucozade anyway, so will make sure to take my gels!
The summer will be a problem. Further complicated by Jack's school (my eldest child, I'll just refer to kids by name since I'll probably be mentioning them quite a lot) is closed for 9 weeks due to maintenance work - we know nothing ever works to schedule, so I'd anticipate 10-11 weeks. It is going to be very hard. It's not his physical disabilities as such that are "the problem", but his behaviour so finding alternative options will be problematic.
I'm blessed that my OH works regular hours, your typical Mon - Fri 9-5, so I guess I'm going to have to break the habit of a lifetime and get my backside out of bed in the mornings so I can be done before he leaves for work. Looking at my Fetch log over the past couple of years, mileage has definitely taken a hit in the summer holidays. My mother is also a godsend!
Oops, best get out and actually do some running, rather than just talk about it. Off to the club, thankfully it has stopped raining for the first time today!
Looking forward to this as my goals are similar and my immediate plans are very much the same too - London, Edinburgh and then running the Coast to Coast in 8 days for charity.
It is interesting to see that your ultra is going to be included in your Abingdon training plan as I was ruling an autumn marathon out due to the plans I have for the summer. I am now considering running Mablethorpe in October and it will be really good to see how Moraghan tweks your training to account for the higher mileage stuff you will be doing.
CG - yes, it will be interesting. I think the obvious point is there just is not enough time to specifically marathon train by the time you account for recovery from the ultra, even though I'd have a decent base. By laying the marathon groundwork in advance and balanced by some longer runs for Kent, it may not be so much of a jump to build back up after recovery? In theory. I'd think the key components would be the easy/LSR's truly easy (I'm guilty of doing them too fast in the past) and the quality sessions of real quality and relevance.
We also discussed, since I am a fan of races, using a race to replace the closest equivalent quality session. For example, in the summer I'll probably be doing quite a few mid week 10K's as part of my club grand prix - they might not be necessarily tapered as a true race, but they would be my speed session.
Mr K - thanks. You are proof that ultras don't necessarily mean speed will suffer
. You really are crazy though!
I lucked out tonight. Stopped raining just before I left for the club and stayed away until I got back.
2.4 mile warm up.
3 x 0.9 mile 10k pace with 2 min recovery (ideally should have been 1 mile, but we ran out of path)
1 mile home to cool down
Split Summary
====
1) - 0.9m - 6:28(7:12/m) - 84cal
2) - 0.9m - 6:25(7:08/m) - 85cal
3) - 0.89m - 6:20(7:08/m) - 83cal
Felt really comfortable. My 10k pb pace from last year is 7.18. Will see what happens to that after my 10k on Sunday.
Telling me you never drink Lucozade is tantamount to blasphemy Kaysdee!! I shall do my best to convert you!
The SuperSix thing was a great experience even if I bombed on race day. That will not happen to you as Moraghan is coaching you as an individual rather than trying to fit a generic plan to a specific time target. Was your session tonight set by him or the club? It sounds like we also live reasonably close judging by the races you mention.
Yep, the Blackpool thread has been interesting reading over the last few weeks! The lack of pressure to reach a particular time goal will no doubt be beneficial I should imagine.
Waves at Cat Girl! How's the injury/training going?
I can drink it in training and will drink a bottle in the morning before a half/mara, but makes me
at race pace. Far too sweet. I did always wonder whether there was any accommodation for individuality in the SuperSix schedules. I think you are a bit further South than me, I live in the North East. I don't mind travelling for races as I get a relaxing weekend away out of it - just happens to have a nice race to tackle before coming home - although maybe not so relaxing as we usually take the two youngest.
My session tonight was set by the club. That is something I have briefly broached with Moraghan as many of the club sessions seem to be far too short for marathon training, usually up to 800m reps, but I enjoy the social aspect and the people and don't think I could just quit going. I would consider my club to mainly concentrate on 5 and 10k runners. I think it was supposed to be 4 x 1k tonight actually, but we did it somewhere different because the park would have been flooded.
p.s I was wrong about the summer mileage. Big drop in 2008, but in 2009 it was June and Sept that took a nose dive.
We are going to have to try and improvise or compromise with the club sessions where possible. Tonight there is not enough overall volume in my opinion for a quality day for a marathoner running 60 miles a week - it's almost a half-quality day which is a waste.
Options might be a couple of quicker miles at the end of the session, just lengthen the whole thing or try and be a bit more aggressive on pace during the recoveries. Or perhaps arrive at the session having done some upper aerobic work.
It's fine but would definitely be easier if we could know in advance otherwise Kaydee is liable to go and run another bloody marathon and let us know the day after!
Who me?
In my defence, I am supposed to be tapering - isn't that an excuse for anything for the next two weeks, lol - and have a 10k race on Sunday, so didn't want to overdo it. I take your point though and definitely have scope to add something before or after (like the MP session last week would have only been 4.5m, but I kept going and went the long way home to bring it up to 7.5)
We usually get the club sessions a couple of months in advance so the new ones should be going up any day and I'll give you a list to see how to adapt them. You'll probably be getting the red marker out again though!
I do need to give you a list of races I'd like to do, either as 'untapered see what I can manage races', strict training paced runs or a serious effort for a pb to reassess training paces. No more marathons though, just a number of halfs, a few 10k's, possibly a 5 miler, some parkruns... just kidding. I think.
May as well list what I had intended to do this / next week for any last minute thoughts.
Easy pace around 8.45
Wed - 7 easy
Thur - 6 easy
Fri/Sat - Rest
Sun - 10K
Mon - Rest
Tue - 3 easy, few strides
Wed - 4 MP?
Thur - 3 easy, few strides
Fri/Sat - Rest
Sun - Marathon
No wonder I can't get up in the mornings. Bedtime.
Good idea, send the races and workouts in advance.
I'm referring to future sessions, you are forgiven for this one!
That looks okay apart from the 10k race......
On the last wednesday you should be thinking as few MP miles as it takes to get some race rhythm - it's going to do bugger all fitness wise for the race. If it takes 4, do 4, if you're feeling it after 2 just do the rest easy or cut it short. I'd cap the total with w-up / c-d at 6 maximum.
I would drop the strides on the tuesday if you insist on racing on the sunday.
Hi I'll keep an eye on this thread as you are a bit ahead of me at the moment - but I'm also doing Blackpool and Abingdon - am going to look at A'don targets after a week on Sunday too.
I know, I'm terrible. That is when I got a big 10k last year though, just before the marathon. Despite how it appears, I am (a bit) more sensible now and know not to risk the marathon for the sake of a 10k. The RW schedule actually had me doing 7m, inc 4 @ 7.25 pace on the Wed/Thur. No chance!
I'll do the 4 on wed, but use 2 to w/u and c/d so just 2 at MP in the middle
Curly - I've seen you mention going for sub 3.45 previously, I assume for GFA time? Did you know it has been increased to 3.50? No excuse to slack off though
. You've had some really great LSR's from what I've seen though so I think you'll be well under 3.45 anyway.
I think I'll be using Blackpool as a bit of an experiment as whilst I obviously want to do well, it is not the be all and end all for me. I'm happy with the progress the training has given me along the way if nothing else. When I decided on a pace for Edinburgh last year, it wasn't to my "potential" (based on my half time/longer runs) as I looked at the predicted pace and thought it was impossible.
I wouldn't expect the calculators to be 100% and feel they are definitely on the optimistic side, but I'm going to try to be a bit braver and just go with what I should be capable of and see what happens.
Sorry wrote a long post then lost it
Sort of along the lines of - good to be cautious when the race is not a target one, but its good to be ambitious with the Abingdon target (within reason of course), because you are now focusing on it as a training goal - part of this needs to stretch you to give you interest over the dark days of slog. In my humble opinion only of course
(am indeed aiming for 3:45 - the calculator says 3:38, but I agree they are generous)
I would suggest that you have to be brutally honest with yourself when assessing your marathon targets. Maybe you can be ambitious with a HM or 10k time but not with the marathon. Agree with Moraghan actually that you can only train according to current fitness anyway (although others train to an aspirational pace) and set your goals as you progress.
Although I am not sure where that leaves me. All the way through this marathon training period I have felt very 'solid' but not sharp at all but the last three weeks have been very encouraging. I shall feel my way on the day I guess.
Faster session for me today. 4 x 1 mile reps. 7.5 miles in total with a decent w/up and c/down. I would normally do an extra rep but at this stage I think less is more. I have a longer, less intense and more marathon specific session later in the week anyway.
Windy and cold today - splits were 6.38, 6.36, 6.18 (steady on Sue!) and 6.30. My sessions always work like this, I just can't hit the pace early doors.
I am now eating the Toblerone that I bought for Mr C earlier, they are yummy - haven't had one for years. Of course if anyone asks than I shall say I recovered with a banana and 500ml of recovery drink
Hi Sue - nice mile reps.
My training has gone surprisingly well considering I was out for 12 weeks and didn't start running again until the middle of January. I have been very cautious on the mileage and not done any speedwork until the last 2 weeks and my aim was always to run 3:44 for a GFA. However, with the change in standards, I now have a GFA for next year so am in a bit of a dilemma regarding a target (as it seems are many of us!). I suspect that 3:44 may be a soft target as I am currently running my recovery runs at what is supposedly my MP and have recently run a 1:42 half off a 60 mile week with a very bad case of DOMS due to some ill advised gym work. I shall probably just see how I feel on the day and then maybe set a target for Edinburgh. It does feel nice not to be chasing a time at the moment though!
That's really what I mean - aiming for current fitness level and trusting that - something I haven't done previously. For arguments sake, assuming being ill before my last half cost me the 80 seconds to go sub 1.40, that predicts a 3.30 marathon. I don't feel confident yet to try that, but I'll set off at 3.35 pace. But, there is a little voice that says "3.35? How?"
The longest race I've done is the Kilomathon at 2.08 for 16.3 miles (7.52 pace), but that was my first week back from injury and I didn't want to push. I know 10 more miles is a long way though! When I talk of being braver... when I signed up for Blackpool I was only going to go for 3.45 because that's all I thought I could do, yet having done most of my 20's comfortably at this pace (8.35), it is just a little kick to say that I can do better than I think. Maybe - will find out soon
.
My run was pretty awful today. I swear, it was dry/calmish all day before I took littlest to playgroup. I was doing my run from there, literally took 3 steps and the freezing rain started. It was blowing a gale no matter which direction I turned. Finally got home, dived straight in the shower and it is all nice and calm again. It had to choose the one hour I was out?
7 miles easy, 1.00.08, avg pace 8.35. Most of it was at planned 8.45 pace, but there were a few downhills which brought the average down.
Do you feel like you are really slowing down on your later reps, to find they were faster? If it's dark I can never see my watch anyway but end up feeling I've messed the pacing up again and surely must be crawling, but my later ones are almost always the faster ones.
I'm eating toast and really trying to ignore the easter eggs I have in the cupboard. I bought one for OH and one for my mam, it's not like they would know I had bought them...
. I will resist!
When I ran Lochaber in 2007 I had no idea what to expect and hoped to get a GFA. Like you, it became clear that I could probably aim for a faster time so i revised to 3.30. On the day 8mm felt just a tad too fast but 8.05's felt right and I paced it pretty well (for a first timer!) dropping only a minute/90 secs. It's the only time in a marathon where I went with how it felt, the other times I have let time targets (optimistic probably at that) dictate so ignored the fact that I was working too hard/my HR was too high. You sound realistic though Kaysdee in your aspirations and you too may surprise yourself!
I am a Garmin junkie so I program the interval sessions so I cannot see the pace and run on feel. The introduction of the sharpening sessions has made a massive difference paces I can reach - I was struggling with 7mm at the start of training. My third rep didn't feel mega fast though so poss a Garmin blip.
The weather will make you tougher!
CG - good to see a run of consistency developing. Don't over reach - I know you of old!! You do so deserve a good one though!
Luckily, I had the opposite experience in my run as at 7 am there was no wind at all but by the time I got back there was a gale blowing. 7 miles easy for me @ 8:20 pace
I know what you mean about expectations. My fastest half marathon time came from a race where I forgot my watch and had no idea what pace I was running. Do you ever use a heart rate monitor? As Sue says, it can be used in a race situation to help with pacing especially in the early stages.
Sue - Don't worry, I'm not going for anything unrealistic. I'm just hoping to run well and finish strong. Edinburgh may be an all out attempt though!
Moraghan, I'm taking a rest day today. Feeling a bit tired and it is extremely windy out there again. I think there is very little to be gained from 6 miles at this stage and every chance I would really tire myself out even at easy pace.
Will maybe do 4 miles very easy early tomorrow and rest again on Saturday for the 10k.
Do you have any opinions on carb loading for next week? In the past I have been a bit rubbish about it. Any carb is not acceptable? My balance has tended towards too much sugar rather than slow release so I need to do better this time. I've heard of people using energy drinks (not Red Bull
) to help by ensuring adequate intake without the bulk, but then also that this isn't a good idea. So much contradiction! My main query is would you recommend a certain number of carb grams per kg of body weight per day as the way to go?
List of Races I'd like to do if possible : Those in bold are the ones already entered.
25th April - 10k (not expecting anything in the tank really 2 weeks after Blackpool, but could possibly do as some kind of tempo if I'm up to it)
16th May - Chester half marathon. To race.
23rd May - Edinburgh marathon.
31st May - Chester marathon.
1st - 8th June, on holiday
13th June - Redcar half marathon. Whatever pace you recommend.
18th July - Kent 50 Mile Challenge
19th September - Great North Run.
17th October - Abingdon marathon.
Any other races I'll be looking at will more than likely be mid week 10k's between July - Aug as part of the club grand prix, but don't have the dates yet. I have my eye on a half on the 29th August to race as you recommended one around 8 weeks out from the marathon to gauge what MP should then be off the back of a pb (hopefully!), but I haven't confirmed entry yet.
I also have a deferred entry to the Trafford 10k from Feb to Sept, but don't know the date yet. Will either be the 5th or the 12th, looking at past results lists, probably the 12th.
THUD.....
Hits floor after reading the race schedule above ....................
Jeez thats a lot of races
And a week between Chester and E'burgh - wow you are brave I am impressed
Hence the "red marker" all over my plans when I first approached him, lol.
I will not race Edinburgh or Chester marathons though. I really, really won't. I know what I'm like as I always say that, but I promise this time - I don't think I'll have any choice actually, expect to be pretty tired by then!
As preparation for Kent, I need to do some really long runs you see so I figured rather than doing them at home and risk giving up and feeling annoyed at having to carry things, I'd do them within a marathon so I get all my water / support provided - and a medal to top it off at the end
.
Rest sounds like a good idea then.
I would favour low glycaemic carbs and as much of them as possible. I would just eat small amounts as regularly as possible, I don't want you going round with a bowling ball stomach. Don't sweat the grams per kg - if you eat as much as you comfortably can that's the best you can do. If you take the process seriously you'll have enough.
The race schedule is insane of course! Therefore I would simply urge you to drop as many of the races as possible!
I would drop the Redcar one and plan on missing the Trafford 10k, especially if it were on the 12th. Ideally, we would wait and see for most of the races, but let me know if any need early decisions because of filling up. Race efforts should be special and as such, you can't be doing them every week and expect success.