Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Will review and complete the spreadsheet asap, probably early Tuesday am due to not having managed to buy a decent version of Excel at home yet (poor I know)

    Have an easy 12miler to get thinking of my key aims for this year...proper ones outside of my loose "improve all times" historical approach.

    Trying to quantify the  sessions from my past schedule, I'd say only the efforts sessions have come close, but a mixture of the sessions not being long or focused enough, and running them by feel rather than to times has reduced their effectiveness.

    In terms of the whole plan the 50 would generally have panned out as this...bit waffly I'm  afraid...

    Lunchtime 4-4.5milers  (Mon to Fri)          what I would have called medium effort previously, circa 6:30 to 6:45 average pace if on the flat . If steep hills involved, the first half would perhaps be 2miles in 16-17mins, a steady mile of sub6:30 including a downhill,  and then a fast finishing last mile, sub 6:15. Often the last couple of hundred metres don ewith a sprint.

    Mon and Wed Evenings       5-6miler   2miles slow, circa 8:30min miling but due largely to steep woody hills, then a couple of flat miles, pace raised to 6:45, downhill mile 6:20, and last faster mile, probably around the same, 620

     Tuesday    1mile warm up and 1 mile warm down, generally hills efforts, 3-4miles in total. Short hills being as short as 20metres, longer hills being as long as 400m. Hard to quantify as the sessions are planned by the club guy running them, but are so different each week it's hard to give an exact picture.

    For the short hills, these were generally sprinting pace, and for the 400m longer hills, probably 5k effort, but obviously not pace as up a steepish hill.

    These sessions have now ended and from Tue 13th the sessions will be 5k minded intervals. I requested that these be longer in length last year as we'd be doing loads of 100metres that didn't benefit much. Therefore, probably these will involve reps from 200 up to 1k. But probably no more than 3 if 1ks. Of course done at a pace much higher than 5k for the 1k, down to an outright sprint for the 200m. Main problem with these sessions is that they're to cater for an ability range of me...guys a fair bit slower, and others very much slower...so even if I do a few extras it probably doesn't suit me in a way it would against better runners.

    Thursday, if hills similar to Tuesday. Otherwise could be a 9.5/10miler although I didn't do many of these.

    If a 9.5miler, basically the first mile would be a warm up, at say 730ish pace, quickly settling to 7min miling throughout, and perhaps a 630 thrown in at the end. Then a lap of a 400metre field to warm down ( as well as making the distance up to 10m)

    Sat was previously a rest and Sun was an easy (in my previous understanding of the word) 4-5 to make up the week's 50, starting slow up through wooded hills, down a sharp hill and a steaming last mile.

    The first mile has clocked as slow as 9 1/2mins if the steepest route, and the last mile, while not religiously timed by any means probably touched as quick as 6min miling.

    Hope this gives a bit of an indication. As you can tell, proper quality and planning has been largely missing and the only structure has been the total per week, although not a religious 50miles a week and 2 runs a day in the week.

  • stevie, our times are similar so i am going to observe and replicate some of your sessions for improvement, i did 35.36 at a 10k yesterday, measured 10.05 on my garmin and slight wind against you, our HM times are almost identical
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    That's good to hear Sawney Bean, as my 10k is sat on 37:03 for the moment, but that was on a poor 10k course...good to hear a 35 something is achievable off a 1hr 19 half.

    Feel free to observe and add anything you can along the way...

     Did my 12.5miler easy today, and have finally loaded my forerunner 405 onto the garmin connect site to properly get splits...

    easy pace is meant to start for me at 7:24 a mile...so split as follows on average just topping that at 7:26 over the full 12.5miles.(aware that 7:24 is the quickest i should be doing these and 7:55 is the slow end of the easy range) No doubt I can slow this as the distance of the run increases and the other sessions kick in. Did my best to slow it down whenever I noticed the pace was creeping up.

    splits... 7:35, 7:19, 7:16, 7:19, 7:22, 7;22, 7;20, 7:15, 7:33, (steep 0.6mile hill in between these 2 readings) 8:07, 7;20, 7:17 and 3:45 for last 0.5m

    Finished the 12.5m knowing I probably could have done another hour or so at that pace, and only some slight tight quads to show for it.

    Will log all of this and the pbs and aims on the spreadsheet tomorrow.

  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭

    Stevie G

    I have resent the spreadsheet in a 2003 version, hopefully that means you don't have to hold in the excitement until tuesday!

    Long run doesn't look too bad - although adding 0.5m smacks a bit of brown-nosing!  image

    Stevie G www.miles4miles.co.uk wrote (see)

    These sessions have now ended and from Tue 13th the sessions will be 5k minded intervals. I requested that these be longer in length last year as we'd be doing loads of 100metres that didn't benefit much. Therefore, probably these will involve reps from 200 up to 1k. But probably no more than 3 if 1ks. Of course done at a pace much higher than 5k for the 1k, down to an outright sprint for the 200m. Main problem with these sessions is that they're to cater for an ability range of me...guys a fair bit slower, and others very much slower...so even if I do a few extras it probably doesn't suit me in a way it would against better runners.

    I know we are going to have a problem with these in the future - particularly if the pace changes according to the distance on the reps, all in the guise of a "5k minded session".  Anyway, let's wait and see.  Do you know the club sessions in advance?

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

     Thanks for the new spreadsheet...can view tab 1 and that looks pretty good, but I can't see the other tabs yet as I have no excel yet...but I will buy this soon! Will review asap tomorrow, with the beauty being that a spreadsheet is quite subtle in an office environment!!

    Route came to 12.3m not the 12 so thought I best run the extra 0.2m!

    My club don't publicise the sessions in advance...but if needs be I could shoot over to the other local club who do.

    Their sessions are on the below, and I'm sure you'll agree they are a lot more structured and quality than the sessions I've described.

    http://www.handycrossrunners.co.uk/events.htm

    The other advantage is that they have 2 runners in the 1h13 half bracket at 40, so good experienced runners, and a few just around/under my pace.

    The first time I ever ran with these guys for a session it was 7x1000  (7 laps of the field) and I got it completely wrong, roasting their top guys for 2 laps, completely crumbling for the next 2 laps, and then crashing out on lap 5!image

  • Free alternative to excel

    You should be able to view multiple tabs using this.(I think...)

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    completed and sent back the training spreadsheet...and will keep it ticking over.

    no club run tonight...so presume the 8miler is just a straight 8mile easy tonight.

    (intervals restart next tue..or as earlier post can join another club for these)

  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭

    In the absence of a club session I'd definitely like to get a quality session in there tonight assuming you have the time.  I want to see how you handle two longer quality sessions (and the volume in them), the diagonals and long run in one week.

    We will make this one fairly mild however as you ran 12.5 yesterday, even though that was easy for you.

    So tonight will be: 

    8m total:  {3m w-up || 4 * 100m strides || 5 * 1000m @ 10k pace w / 90 second jog recovery || cd}

    Please don't do more than planned and keep it to 10k pace and no quicker (first rep can be a little slower which is good habit).  Going quicker than 10k pace will defeat the object of the session.

    If you are finding this workout very easy reduce the jog recovery to 60 seconds but don't change anything else.  Don't gun the last one, do it at 10k pace - I want the mindset that a workout professionally done at the correct paces is more satisfying than one where you finished up by roasting yourself on the last rep.  Let's be smart, get the benefit of this workout and be ready for the next quality run.

    Ideally do this on a field / trail but a track would be fine.  At this point either would be preferable to tarmac.

    Enough rules?  image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    sounds good.

    I have a track 1.5mile away, but a field 100metres away, so will aim to do 3miles warm up round the vicinity of the field, and then hit the 1000k reps on the field as recommended.

    Just to check on the 10k pace, as it isn't one we've nailed down just yet, if HM pace is 558 to 604 is the 10k pace what I've done my last 10k at (37:03 which is probably not too different from the above HM), pace) or target 10k pace which would be at least about 5:45 to 5:50a mile or around 3:36 a k?

    As my half marathon is still my best respective performance it causes a little bit of confusion as to what my actual 10k pace is at the moment, as the last 10ks I've done have had hills or u turns...and all matter of excuses!

  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭

    Apologies - the original plan was not to have you working at 10k pace just yet - but as your first priority 1 is in a month our hand has been forced!

    We don't train to target pace, apart from maybe 3k or faster reps, however your 37:03 was fairly hilly and your half suggests it could be a fair bit stronger.  Your 10k pace range will be 5:47 to 5:52 - let's see how you get on.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    got it.  will test tonight.

    off for the 4miler now, and with the session tonigjht in mind will be comfortable to keep it easy pace!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    4mile done and dusted, few seconds over the 30mins.

    Although a few other runners and chav teens on bikes almost tempted me to run faster! But resisted!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Last night 8 miler...

    Did the 3mile warm up...nicely to plan.

    Then foolishly messed around with my watch trying to get it to record auto 1k..result, locking it on a mode I couldn't get out of! Rookie mistake.

    Could feel myself warming down a bit as i tried to fix it, so grabbed a stopwatch from home.

    The park next to my house is where one of the local 5ks is run, so I was able to at least make a decent approximate of where 1k was.

    Working on the premise that 5:50 mile pace is 3:37 k pace, I then did the session as best I could on the "1k distance" from the 5k race.

     I did the 4 x100m strides

    Then it was the 3:37 as an effort (1k), 90sec jog, and repeated the 5 times.

    Not an ideal version, but in the circumstances not a bad salvage job. The 3:37 effort pretty much got me to the "1 mark" each time.

    Felt like I'd had a decent workout after, there was a little wind which didn't help, and obviously the frustration of the watch/not 100% accurate distance, was annoying. And the slight warming down didn't help either.

     However, best to make this watch error now!

    After the session got a mate with the same watch to sort it for me!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    easy 4miler done today..no alarms no surprises.

    20min easy stationary cycling...and then Man Utd v Bayern!

  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭

    Good stuff mate.  Your 10k workout was light mileage wise (deliberately so) so I'm pleased to hear you feel you could have done more but you felt it had some benefit.  It'll ramp up soon enough.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    slightly coldy feelings today but the 4miler easy seemed to shake the cold  out a bit!

    kept it to the correct pace again...and gave plenty of disclaimers toa  colleague who pointed out I was running much slower than I used to!

     "big picture"image

     10m progression run tonight..should be good.

  • How did the progression run go Stevie G?  What was the starting pace, roughly at 5 miles and last mile?

    Good thread this one, and am taking a few of the ideas that Moraghan has stated, tried the 1k repeats session and really enjoyed it.

  • Aye mee meep i am following with interest also, i did some basic speed work today on a cricket pitch, sprinting the length and jogging the short ends, the 1k repeats are good tried them last week x5
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Was feeling a little coldy yesterday but the lunchtime 4m easy revitalised me!

     Mile Splits for progression run are as follows

    7:55

    8:19  (steep short hill on the route....so effort in keeping with the progression idea)

    7:33

    7:33

    7:34

    7:17

    7:08

    6:47

    6:19

    6:14

     For a first attempt this went ok...was meant to start just beyond slowest easy pace (8min miling) and increase to fastest steady pace (6:30)

    As you can see 3 miles were done at the same pace, so perhaps these should have differed a little, and the last 2 miles werea bit too fast, but mile 9 was a lovely tarmaced smooth road which just gave smoother running, and once I'd logged that, mile 10 had to be a bit faster.

     However, went ok, early miles a case of trying to keep disciplined to keep the pace controlled, and the last 2 miles obviously feeling I was working reasonably hard, but of course nowhere near flat out.

    Although a couple of times I noticed I'd crept under 6min miling, but I'll learn to control the pace a bit better as time goes on no doubt.

  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭

    Nice run.  The last two of that were done at around marathon pace, so if the next few days go okay we'll make next week's run (which was 10m inc 3m @ steady state followed by 3m @ MP) a little more challenging. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    friday day rest

    saturday...still with a bit of a coldy feeling, and shock of doing a session on a saturday (!),

    basically 3mile easy pace, then the x10 diagonals at fast ish pace but not straining, with the jog as instructed after each rep along the goal line, finished with 1.5m easy pace..total 6mile.

     felt fine, even with this cold!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    got up at 6am to do it image   but 13miler done and dusted in 1hr 36...so in keeping with the easy pace idea!
  • i did 10 miles in 1hr 30, very slow, is it too slow!!!!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    That must have felt torture for you Sawneyimage  I felt slow at near the top end of my easy pace range , circa 7:24 a mile, so 9min miling must have been tough!
  • no it was okay actually, running along the beach, i hope you dont mind me popping in here from time to time and adding to your thread Steve, I also did 6 x 800 metres in 2.37- 2.39 yesterday with 1 min recovery on the track, felt strong but my calfs are tight today
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    No feel free to post away!

    The Macmillan race pace calculator suggests I could get some much faster times for lower distances from my half time, and you're kind of the living proof of that .I recall that we have quite similar half times, but you're well into the 35s for 10k and very low 17s for 5k.

    Being on a beach and after a speedwork session are mitigating factors I suppose to the 9min milingimage

  • my calfs are tight, i wore a pair of compression type socks on the track yesterday, dont know if that is the reason, Moraghan knows what he is talking about so be interesting to see your improvement. I purposely ran my 800s at my 5k pace yesterday, before i would have ran them hard and been all over the place. Like you I want pbs this year, sub 2.10 800 metres, sub 17 5k(although i have done 16.52 at a club night) and sub 35 for 10k, its just knowing if your doing the right thing. Good luck and will keep in touch.
    our HM time is identical almost, you are definately going to improve your 5k and 10k times,
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Thanks Sawney B.

    I did some efforts up a track last summer ina  similar style to what you just described! Would have no idea of pace so just started very fast flat out, and by the 3rd one was a lot slower, and by the 4th one in a heap at the side of the track!

    Post back with your progress as well.

  • MoraghanMoraghan ✭✭✭

    Stevie

    How are you feeling after the week?  Any niggles? 

    These couple of weeks are just getting you used to a couple of different sessions and increasing the volume of your quality sessions. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    No niggles muscular wise at all so far.

    Had a slight cold but it was nothing as I could run the sessions 100% fine.

    If anything I feel a fair bit fresher for running the 50miles a week this way (well...60 this week gone as due to the bank hol did the 12 on Monday and 13 yesterday), than I ever did running it in 11 sessions.

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