Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, I'll confess, 

    It was your down time that threw me. 

    For some reason I imagined an ever increasing load being applied week on week.

    Averages do have a part to play though. Its the load and recovery pattern within the averages that alters things.

    Knew a guy who averaged 60 miles per week. Sequence 100, 20, 100, 20... what!

    He raced pretty well.

    Actually SG, your 2013 average looks like the real deal on account of it being only 89% of the same period in 2012.

    The volume has been converted into race pb's and enhanced recovery. 10/10

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    That would probably have been the classic mistake for someone writing their own schedule wouldn't it Ric, presuming that more and harder is what is needed immediately to get faster.

    Luckily, I have a genius coaching me, and I remember a summer or 2 ago being picked up on me using grand words like that, mostly by newer quicker achievers not understanding the premise of the thread. (ie that i'd been around for plenty of years before it started and wasn't a newbie).

    But personally I never doubted it, kept the faith and the rewards are ongoing, whilst feeling the freshest I've felt in the 3 years of the thread!

  • It's all very interesting. I like scientific stuff, being an engineer. All my running and cycling produces a Training Stress Score for each workout. This can be tracked well and with enough historical data can predict a good taper.

    Trying to make Freshness as high as possible whilst trying to keep Fitness within 95% of the peak. It seems to have worked the few times I've scheulde things carefully. Google Performance Management Chart.

    Track Wednesday tonight! image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    How does Track Wed work by the way Iron? As traditionally Tue and Thur, or Tue and Fri are quality days...

    Would you do quality Wed and Fri, or is it just 1 running quality session due to your 3 way split in training?

    I'm obviously just a runner, but I suppose it's not that easy to fit cycling and swimming in.

    Cycling I guess you're not just free to go and smash a 20miler in the evening on a dark night, with all sortsof conditions, and swimming, clearly you have to make all the efforts of a booking and take a drive somewhere

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Stevie G . wrote (see)

    That would probably have been the classic mistake for someone writing their own schedule wouldn't it Ric, presuming that more and harder is what is needed immediately to get faster.

    Luckily, I have a genius coaching me, and I remember a summer or 2 ago being picked up on me using grand words like that, mostly by newer quicker achievers not understanding the premise of the thread. (ie that i'd been around for plenty of years before it started and wasn't a newbie).

    But personally I never doubted it, kept the faith and the rewards are ongoing, whilst feeling the freshest I've felt in the 3 years of the thread!

    SG, reading your last line gave me the urge to punch the air on your behalf, yeesss!

  • Think I need to employ the M as I have no clue what you pair are eluding to image SG the best thing about a day off is sometimes just choosing when and where to do the 10 miler!

    Easy 7.6 tonight, didn't want to push out a 10 after Sunday and last night's session. Been reading 'Road Racing for Serious Runners' by Pfitzinger and Douglas. I sorely lack and LT work, apart from a couple of tempo runs I barely do any threshold work and from whatb I read it is fairly pivotal to a 10K/HM/5K runner.

    So my session tomorrow is directly stolen from the book! 3 x 8mins (@LT) with 3mins jog recovery. Sounds tasty.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Iron Cat, I worked in engineering R & D for a few years, so solutions to problems are our thing.

    Google Performance Managment Chart.

    And there I was, thinking about devising a system and it already exists. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    sounds a tasty one Stevie.

    I suppose the hardest thing must be to know what sessions to do, when to do them, with what volume and recoveries, and how to build that into an overall plan of periodisation and progression to peak for target races!

    Conclusion, thank goodness I don't have to work it out myself!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Ss, what I'm eluding to is that I've seen enough of your training to indicate you have the potential to break not just 35 mins for 10k but 34 minutes as well.

    But you have to have the nerve to almost chop your training in half for weeks on end first.

    If I could break 34 minutes for 10k you most certainly can. You're basically a faster runner than I was.

     

  • Cheers Ric, nice vote of confidence. image Why would this require me chopping training right down for a period? I know rest is essential and never have more than 6 days consecutive running, but are you saying that we (as runners) should factor in longer low mileage weeks to assimilate previous workloads?

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    So, a round up of today.

    Johnas needs to shatter 1hr 15 for his half, and Stevie needs to get a 33:xx 10k.

    image

  • SG and Dachs - I'm running Bupa, unfortunately I entered and paid for it back in July! I ran it a few years ago and ended up disappointed in my time. There are quite a few turns and I agree its not super fast - but the big event feeling helps.

  • JohnasJohnas ✭✭✭
    Right, thats your final warning SG!



    SS - threshold sessions have been a mainstay of my training for the last year. Always 5 or 6 mins intervals but the reps change as does the recovery week on week. 5x 6mins off 1 min recovery one week, then 6x 5 mins off 90 sec recovery the next. I swear by them.



    In fact, I 'coached' a mate last year to break 1.40 HM. He'd been running years and never achieved it. We had 10 weeks I think and besides making his training more consistent, the main thing we changed was to add a threshold session a week. Result? 1.38 HM PB from his previous 1.43.
  • Raced my second Wednesday of the month today. Wednesday isn't a good day for an effort: long run on Sunday so recovery Monday and then can't go hard Tuesday as Wednesday is race day, then recovery tomorrow and parkrun Saturday so easy Friday.

    Any suggestions as to how to get another session in this week? Could do track tomorrow but after a race today (sandwiched in between 5 miles run out and 5 miles back) it won't be as fast as last week so maybe a different session to avoid direct comparison or tempo?

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    imageimage

    It was probably the 3 1hour tempos alternating between HMP and steady that got me in shape for Wokingham. Monster sessions.

    PC2, this is inadvertantly turning into another thread meet up! Unfortunately you 2 and all my Sandhurst lot are rolling in from a different direction.
    Ric, I'll probably drive to South Harrow and get the Piccadilly line in...is that your intended route in?

  • Iron - My plan to dabble in a few tri's this summer after my first last year has kicked off.. just paid for a bike I picked up from a colleague at the weekend - so now I have to do some to justify it! The aim is that as a decent swimmer I can convert fairly easily for 1 or 2 sprint or Oly tri's - much as I did in my one off last year with little swim and no bike training - to compliment the track running rather than take over. I might be putting some bike technique questions your way though!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Phil, unless the race you did today was a real piddler in distance, or not a flat out effort, you probably need to recover from it to be honest. Maybe something lighter saturday, but so you can still get the long run in sunday unaffected.

    I would say join my light track session Friday, 7x300m at 3k pace, but unless you can somehow manage a day working at home it won't work, as I'm off so will do it lunch rather than evening.

  • SG - Isn't there a few of us at Eastleigh too? Although I might not have said about that one. It seems a really long time since I've raced you as well...image

  • They sound good Johnas, cheers pal! I'll have a think about which seems best suited to me and have a stab at one on the track tomorrow so I can be a bit more precise about pace.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Ss, yes that's the case.

    I like to think of taking the energy required to maintain a high volume training load and refining it down.

    What brings you to a peak is reducing volume, increasing intensity and increasing the recovery.

    You can't do this off no or little training. You have to have something to work with, which you have. Lots and lots of miles in the bank.

    I went from running rather tired 36 mins for 10k straight into the 34's by swapping routine daily running for one long run of 12 miles and 3 interval sessions per week. 

    About 12 weeks in I ran a 33:42.  

    hardest session I managed at the time was 12 x 400m (av 72 seconds) off 200m jog recovery. The fastest 400m was 70 seconds. It nearly killed me. 

    That's how slow I am.

    BTW, it seems I've been made Pope, not sure about the kit.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    3 interval sessions a week Ric? Deary me, and that 400m session must have left your legs monstered. I'm not used to training that way these days, and the legs probably wouldn't thank me for trying to go back to that!!

    was that 33.42 your record? Something for all you younger chaps to target eh? Especially you Stevie, like Ric said you should be 33s at least, you whippsernapper!

    PC2, no you didn't mention that one! You Reading boys with your cynical fast flat race hunting ways! If you could have a bloodtest or do a race before, it might help me give you a race image

  • Wow, an evening at the track and the thread is on fire. Catching up with 2 pages already.

    Stevie G . wrote (see)

    How does Track Wed work by the way Iron? As traditionally Tue and Thur, or Tue and Fri are quality days...

    Would you do quality Wed and Fri, or is it just 1 running quality session due to your 3 way split in training?

    I'm obviously just a runner, but I suppose it's not that easy to fit cycling and swimming in.

    Cycling I guess you're not just free to go and smash a 20miler in the evening on a dark night, with all sortsof conditions, and swimming, clearly you have to make all the efforts of a booking and take a drive somewhere

    Track Wednesday is with the tri-club. If I was running with FC then Tue & Thur would be quality days. Basically Mon is a club interval swim, Tue is quality bike (threshold intervals) , Wed track, Thur quality bike (Thresh or sub thresh intervals), Fri tempo run + maybe club interval swim, Sat long bike, Sun long run.

    This is only for the build up to the Euro champs. I'd like to run more with my running club but that is not the priority.

    RicF wrote (see)

    Iron Cat, I worked in engineering R & D for a few years, so solutions to problems are our thing.

    Google Performance Managment Chart.

    And there I was, thinking about devising a system and it already exists. 

    I quite like the way it works. I gather that people have been doing similar things with logbooks or excel for years.

    PC2 wrote (see)

    Iron - My plan to dabble in a few tri's this summer after my first last year has kicked off.. just paid for a bike I picked up from a colleague at the weekend - so now I have to do some to justify it! The aim is that as a decent swimmer I can convert fairly easily for 1 or 2 sprint or Oly tri's - much as I did in my one off last year with little swim and no bike training - to compliment the track running rather than take over. I might be putting some bike technique questions your way though!

    I imagine as a good runner and a decent swimmer you will transition to tri extremely well. Biking can be picked up relatively easily. Fling the questions over!

    I may be looking to change running club this year. Whilst I like being one of the tope scorers for Finch, we're in the process of buying a house in Bracknell, not too far from the track as it happens...

    Forgot to mention tonight's session. Very light as some have Reading HM this w/e:

    100m/300m RI 0:20
    200m/200m RI 0:43
    300m/100m RI 1:05
    400m/200m RI 1:26
    600m/400m RI 2:12
    400m/200m RI 1:30
    300m/100m RI 1:02
    200m/200m RI 0:39
    100m/300m RI 0:18

    I got my targets wrong. I was thinking 1:26 for 400m and 2:10 for 600m with the rest guesstimated whereas the 400m should have been 1:23 and the 600 a tad faster.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, I live in Pinner so its a choice of MET line or Rayners Lane, Picadilly line. But as things stand I haven't given the journey to the race any thought, yet.

    Intervals I did were no problem as I was only running on four days of the week, so plenty of recovery.

    One session was 20 x 100m sprints (I used the word sprint in its loosest terms) I'm talking 15/16 seconds at best. 

    Legs were never a problem. My lungs seem to explode long before my legs give up. Has always been so.

    fastest 10k was 33:23. when I was 36.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Blimey you lot - stop posting so much! Really difficult trying ot keep on top of that lot, with a busy day at work but I think I've got the gist of it!

    Day one of recovery much as expected Ric - thanks for asking. Less pain, a bit more hope of a reasonable recovery time if I'm sensible. Sitting in meetings today was painful, thanks to a bit of referred sciatica (the sciatic nerve apparently runs right alongside the pulled tendon), but bike rides to work were fine today.Walking at lunchtime was a bit of a painful effort until I'd warmed up but at least can get some cycle sessions in if nothing else. Second physio session tomorrow, so lets see what he says.... (hoping it's "oh, I made a mistake - its just a very minor strain and you can get straight back inot full training"!!!). Reinforces what you say about tapering and rest....

     

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    how come such a quick 2nd appointment Bus? When was the last one? Barely time for any rest to kick in?

    Ric, I'd like a 33:xx one day, but then I'd have liked (and got) a 34:xx a while back, and so on from 40 down! I guess that's just the way it goes until a final peak, or until desire, commitment, luck with injuries and time conspire!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Some sort of heat treatment thing he wants to do to get the tendon healing ASAP - rest does not seem to be part of his repertoir! Hopefully he's not going to just say I need one every other day for the next 3 weeks - wallet won't take more than one or two more before I have to start selling the kids image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    That's always the slight niggle with private stuff. That they'll spin it out.

    It's very unsatisfying leaving a physio you've paid £30-40 for when all they've really done is tweaked you a little.

    That's why these days I prefer the NHS route. If you know the system, and realise you have to push at different stages, rather than "Just wait" like they tell you, it's not too long a wait.

    And once you're on their books, you're on the system until they fix you.

  • Just finished a epic read of the last few days posts...

    Bus... Sorry to hear about the injury mate, but those physio costs brought a tear to my eye...

    Dachs... Wise choice... How often do we try to run through a niggle thinking it won't be as bad as last time... Too often...

    Ric... Very much like your thinking, and a lot of the experience's you've quoted, I can very much relate to in years gone by.... Will also be doing Eastleigh next week, but prior to that will be spending a week in Cornwall doing sweet FA... So if your theory is right, I'll be smashing that pb...

    Anyone know what day summer is on this year??? This weather is slowly pissing me off... Cornwall next week, padling, sun-bathing and fish & chips... Cant wait... 

     

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Bluenose, have to see if me Dachs and PC2 can find you next sunday. Wear something fetching image

    Weather is bizarre. Saw some light, non landing snow again today. It's mid March for rucks sake!

  • Stevie... I'll be wearing a red top with a yellow & black stripe across the front with Frome somewhere on it... If you see me before the race, then I'll have the "Why am I doing this" facial expression... But after the race it'll be the "WTF" expression... Looking forward to it, I think!!!! 

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