Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    if you really want to give yourself horrendous problems, eat bran flakes with green fruit, with some lucozade.

    And then do a long progressive reps set an hour later

    In fairness you probably don't want to give yourself horrendous problems...

     

  • literatin wrote (see)

    Is it just me who has never, ever needed a poo in a race or when running?

    I wouldn't say never but very rarely. If I even think about runing the flight or fight reaction cuts in and I need a dump and once dumped beforehand I am done for the race.

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    mattl wrote (see)

    I can't give up the cereal. I could live off the stuff. I usually go through 4 boxes a week. :-/

    Rice crispies?   Snap crackle and plop

  • I remember a long run.. For the last 6 miles I was in agony.. No where to go, no where to hide.. Nearly knocked on a stranger's door.. Managed to get home just in time! 

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Fascinating stuff everyone.  Next time another runner comes bombing past looking like they're doing a major tempo effort, I shall console myself with the probability that they are in fact hurrying home to avoid soiling themselves.

    Well done Tim on the 5K, sounds like more is in the tank for another day.

    And congrats Matt on the 5,000, again I think you could go quicker, but racing that kind of distance on the track no doubt takes a bit of getting used to.

    SS, doesn't sound like much fun, but well done anyway.  At least your race seems to have sparked a number of disgusting anecdotes.

    Seb, good to get some consistency at the 5 milers.

    17 at the weekend as part of the marathon plan.  Average pace 6:51.  7:07 average for the first 11, then did the rest as kind of progressive (6:39, 6:22, 6:27, 6:21, 6:10, 5:59).  Dunno why I did that really, boredom I suppose.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Dachs, do you think this is some kind of running thread? It's basically a toilet issues thread these days.

    Tim, there's always somewhere to go. Always. If youve managed to last 6miles you must blessed with a slow burner.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    In which case SG, someone ought to post the Bristol scale.  Not me though.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Stevie G . wrote (see)

    Dachs, do you think this is some kind of running thread? It's basically a toilet issues thread these days.

    Tim, there's always somewhere to go. Always. If youve managed to last 6miles you must blessed with a slow burner.

    Always somewhere to go? indeed, especially as the problem attains 'critical mass'. 

    My worst episode involved the 'blind side' of a telegraph pole alongside rush hour traffic. I ran away from that one pretty sharpish.

    From that time on I've avoided training away from the countryside.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    I've developed an eye for an emergency evacuation.

    Tightest was probably in a bush 20metres away from an oncoming oldie! Not great.

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    Dachs, i think you know my brother in law Matt Smith. Looked on his profile on FB and you appeared on his friends list. Small world. 

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    mattl wrote (see)

    Dachs, i think you know my brother in law Matt Smith. Looked on his profile on FB and you appeared on his friends list. Small world. 

    Considering the previous postings about bowel evacuation, I trust this particular post was not meant to be some sort of analogy?

    Anyway, on the subject of crap, we come to my session this morning.

    Which wasn't. Crap that is! or was!

    I'd approached this one with some trepidation, the small matter of conducting the tough part after a 3 mile warm up was one factor. Needless to say a 3 mile warm down after was also part of the deal.

    The idea was to run the length of a road (0.47mile long, so a 94% Bus). The particular drag climbs from the lower end for 0.34 of a mile before hitting a peak, then dropping down the other side for the rest of the distance.

    I was going to run the road one way, stop a while and then return. However on the first rep I thought "sod this, I'll do a 'there and back', using the crest as a stop and go point.

    So I boot the pace up the hill, hit the crest in 2 minutes, cruised down the other side, turned at the end of the road, cruised back up to the crest and used what speed I have to blast back down the hill to the start point.

    Times for the 0.93 mile distance: 5:42, 5:42, 5:41, 5:37, 5:34 all off 2 minute recovery.

    I need to work on my leg speed.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    nice double today, and I'm talking running!

    6 at lunch, 6.53 pace with a tasty mile inclining hill midway, and 7.23 for 4miles that start with a 2mile woody hill section.

    It certainly feels like the legs are eager to get back to the full programme. The niggle is becoming less, and it feels closer to a proper return...so hope that continues..

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, good to see you are getting back on track.

    I was going to add that after my own antics had finished on the hill I made a warm down adjustment that came into play after the last race, which was-

    having something substantial to eat and drink before doing the aforementioned warm down. In my case it was a bagel and tuna chased down with 500ml of water.

    Jogging along with all the food and water required for recovery already on board has proved its worth already. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    you edited your first post hugely while I was posting mine!

    made it look like im one of those bums who just ignore the flow of the thread and post my own guff image

  • Dachs wrote (see)

    In which case SG, someone ought to post the Bristol scale.  Not me though.

    Had to google that and I am a 4 / 5

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Not at all SG, it was in fact me just dawdling along typing with one finger while wondering what I should post, or not, typing it all out and then deleting it in turn.

    By the time I've finished, its odds on half a dozen guys have posted in the meantime.

    I think I only edited after the word analogy. Did wonder about using a new comment box.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Phil, I get the feeling you'd google anything anyone told you to wouldn't you

    Ric, the edit facility has saved me a world of pain I can tell you. Not so much on this thread, but when bored and dipping into the reams of people on clubhouse who don't seem to run, have any interest in running at all, and would probably struggle to answer why they post so much on a running forum.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, the edit facility indeed, very handy if you can get back to your post before someone else cuts you off with one of their own.

    Hoped that some of the guys on this thread would pitch up for some of the Summer League road races. Next race in the series for me is a 5 miler that I ran in 29:22 last year. I'll need that leg speed for that one.

    Reasons were that today I was only able to operate at around 5:30 pace going downhill. Admittedly it was a bit cool; but it would be at around 6:00am, maybe not the best time for a speed session tbh.

    The Ealing race starts at 11:00am, it'll be a bit warmer by that time.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    You'll beat that time, if you taper down a bit from 80mile weeks!

  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭

    delurk.....

    Ric - if you don't mind my tuppence worth, it'll take a few of those sessions before it begins to feel comfortable anyway (especially as you seem to be following a periodised approach), but two things I can see - the turn around would have cost you rhythm and a few seconds. The second, the more anaerobic the session, the harder it is in the morning as your body has less glycogen available as your liver glycogen depletes by about half overnight.

    If you don't mind me asking, are you doing a Lydiard type approach (base, hills, anaerobic, race specific?) and if so, were you doing Lydiard type hills? I tried them a few weeks back, but my back couldn't take it (on-going osteopathic treatment), so I've not got a handle on what I could have expected from it.......

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Matt, yes, it is a very small world.  Matt sat opposite me at work for a couple of years before going off to work at the HoL.  He was a good laugh to work with  You must be part of the Burnley massive then?

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, last year I was still getting over the left-over injuries from XC racing. Despite all the stuff about XC making you stronger, its training XC that does that. Racing just finds out the weaknesses.

    Not tired at all from the mileage at the moment. The main reason I ought to run faster at Ealing this year is the small matter of weighing 3kg less, through training.

    TT, I recall making a flippant statement about Lydiard some while back. Baseless since I hadn't checked up properly.

    Indeed, I've drifted; for want of a better word, into a Lydiard approach though it was more a case of adopting a logical sequence. Then again, I've just realised I read his  approach in a book over 20 years ago and have subconsciously copied it.

    The Lydiard hills are an example. 

     I make allowances for early morning and don't get too hung up on the resulting numbers. I do wonder about the physiological effects, if I'm actually acheiving anything with such intensity so early in the day.

    Who knows? interesting note about glycogen levels though.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Dachs, so small a world, the girlie from my club I write s schedule for says she often sees you out running.

    Although she used your real name, and I was like, "who?", before thinking, oh Dachs!

    Ric, morning efforts have to be the last frontier....I've done 7am 12-16milers at the weekend, 7am 12milers in the week, an 18miler off 4 hours sleep, lunchtime hard reps and tempos, and evening reps after a 12hour working day, but I simply wouldn't be able to do super early hard sessions.

    I can't pretend the 2 parkruns I've done felt gorgeous at 9am on a Saturday!

    Expecting today to be super busy work wise, so going to get a 6 in at 7ish, to make sure it's banked.

    Then if needs be I can do a 4 later sometime, although just a 6 is all the "niggle ease in" schedule has down.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    6 in the morning at 6.48pace, including the hill up to Holtspur for anyone local!

    Clearly i'm gagging for a full return so at the moment, the easy runs are coming out top end easy or just above. I'm sure once i have the hard sessions again it'll get more relaxed easy again!

  • Then that 6miler is alll you should do SG, why not take it easy if thats what the schedule calls for and your coming back to full strength.

    Thanks TippTop for some scientific excuses for poor running performance in the mornings. Im sure I can use that at some point. Last time I skimmed through Lydiards' books I think I was left with the impression I should be hopping and sprinting up hills quite a lot. I know people add this work in addition to their schedules but there was lots of that required it appeared?

    Unlucky with the weather at Stone Stevie See, At least you still ran and toughed it out. When is your next race? Nice 5K Tim and great 5000m debut Matt. I find it difficult not to set off too fast in the first few laps of a track race and that tends to screw thngs up.

    Struggling to move my arms since Sunday, did that stupid obstancle race, which was a nice tough 9.2miles of fell type hills and feilds, but you had to carry big water carriers around assault courses, tyres up hills and do about 100 bleeding press ups, sits and burpees during the race, along with all the usual crawling through mud/tunnels and over crap etc. Way too much chance of injury for a runner. Might have been happier if I hadnt come 4th due to many people cutting off 2.3k of course. Live and learn, this would probably be one of my last type of races if the girlfriend hadnt bought me a 12k spartan race entry for my birthdayimage

    There is another local 10k tonight, rather hilly though, think I might give it a miss, 3 races in 5 days is possibly too much and there is a road 5k Thursday night in Leicester I might smash up to obliterate my 18:3x road 5k

    All ok Bus? And hope your getting close to recovery IronCat!

     

  • TippTopTippTop ✭✭✭

    lol Seb. It works for me if I do a morning effort image The hill work was 6 days a week initially, but dropped to 3 days in later editions of the book. It's apparently quite hard on the body. The idea is essentially bounding uphill (focus is on good back leg extension and power off), and then striding out fast on the downhill (Peter Snell apparently used to run the 800m downhill in ~1:50).

    Ric - so was it the proper Lydiard uphill bounding/fast downhill you were doing? My understanding of morning efforts is that, by necessity, it forces your body to metabolise more fat than it would otherwise do for the effort (hence why you will go a little slower). Whether that's a good or bad thing, physiologically, depends on your race distance I guess. Snap on allowances for pace here too. It's either that or be prepared to work harder for the pace.

  • Had a guest pass to a local Total fitness so went there this morning to use their indoor 200m track.

    Had the intention of running 16x200m with 200m jogs but found it way too hard!

    Managed 12x200, first in 29.8s then settled to 32-33s with the 200 jogs.

    The first few felt ok, but seriously painful towards the end! Those corners on an indoor track are severe too! 

    Will run an easy 6m after work. 

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    My morning runs are always shocking, I also race far better in evening races. I read a while back that your lungs are 12% more efficient in the evening then the morning to add to the glycogen issue.

    Seb, I'm hitting a 3K tonight at Trafford. Had considered the 1500, but need to keep the goal in sight and think about the most beneficial sessions/races. 3K is obviously more beneficial to an aspiring sub 17min 5K runner. But I’m definitely getting another mile before the end of the summer.

    Which Lyiard book makes best reading? I think I enjoy running theory more than the actual running!image

  • Stevie, I was thinking of the 1500 at the Trafford meet on the 16tg but swaying towards the 3000 too. Good luck tonight and may see you in a few weeks unless you're doing the Sale sizzler on the 4th? 

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    SG - you must know my real name by now!  You forget how conspicuous you are when you're running, until someone says they see you out and about.  How's your coaching role coming on then (PMJ, that's not an excuse to post any pictures of coachees!)?

    Lydiard - if his schedules involve running up hills more than once a week, I think I'll happily avoid optimum training.

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