Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    Excuse my ignorance, just read Iwans post. Congrats. I've also got Deans sessions saved on my iPad. I've not followed it ruby the book but I've been doing short reps and long reps each week. 

    Well done on the win Johnas!

  • Matt, excellent pb.. Really good race there! 

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Bloody hell - just finished typing a long post explaining my absence etc only to lose it! Grrr!

    Anyway, as I was saying - evening all! Not been on hols this week, (but almost right as I was away for a long weekend last weekend) just had a totally manic week at work and at home with a heap of IT problems thrown in for good measure! Apologies if I've missed anything , and will try to catch up (a summary would be good image). Had 3 days of non running last week, but its not made a jot of difference to the hamstring problems. Lots of kayaking instead inmy new toy, which was great fun!

    Had a quick flick through the latest pages - many congrats to daughter #2 Philip - doesn't get much better than a 1st at Cambridge, so you must be very proud!

    Matt and Johnas excellent 5k and parkrun time respectively.SS - similar parkrun story to me today - I was 2nd in 18.23 on a very blustery Rye. Should have caught the young lad in front, but I thought he looked like he had plenty to spare if I'd tried, whereas I would have had to really hurt myself to catch him, only to find him doubled up tretching after the finish line! hey ho...

    SG - sounds like you are making good progress?

    First serious LSR of the marathon campaign tomorrow - aiming for 18M. Will be especially ahrd after a tough week image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    cracking 5ks people, making me feel jealous i'm skirting around at the moment.

    Rick that's some good lawn mowing

    welcome back Bus. well...not that you've really been away then!

    I can still feel the pelvo, but am doing a 12 shortly...to make up a 62mile "easy" (dipping into steady here and there) week.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Morning all,

    15 miles done, a quick snack and I may go back to bed.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    you live the dream Ricco.

    12 for me, 6.58 average, style a bit like Elvis at the moment, but hopefully keeping the level topped up for when I can properly re-commence the quality stuff.

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    14 in 6.50 ave pace. been a while since I did an lsr so I expect a few tight muscles today.

    great race matt.  a nice sighter ready to go sub 16 next timeimage

  • Thanks dean and Matt. 

    Yeah it was good to hit the target, I think it's a great plan to do maybe once or twice a year when you have a target 5k coming up. The only issue I had was a bit of DOMS after the 200's.

    I'm also quite lucky in cardiff in that the Parkrun Is pancake flat and all on tarmac paths which doesn't sound like its the case elsewhere so I can have a crack whenever suits me. 

    Unfortunately will have to start upping the mileage for HM training now And will probably lose some speed!

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Stevie G . wrote (see)

    you live the dream Ricco.

    12 for me, 6.58 average, style a bit like Elvis at the moment, but hopefully keeping the level topped up for when I can properly re-commence the quality stuff.

    Well Elvis Presley's dead and Elvis Costello's flat so the only way onwards must be improvement.

    Oh, haven't been asleep, yet.

     

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    Just back from spending two hours on the local fells with three mates who are doing one of them Total Warrior races. Took them up some belting climbs and descents which left them absolutely ruined. You take it for granted just how fit you are although I enjoyed seeing the pain on their faces. image it will be interesting to hear how they're feeling tomorrow. 

  • 18 slow undulating miles for me this morning.. 2:12" Seemed a long way after only running a maximum of 15 since January. Took my camelbak and had a flapjack en route.. I like these types of runs.. Take it easy and enjoy the view.

    on a bad note, my Achilles have been tender for the last 2 weeks. I'm icing them when I can and doing the odd stretches.  I hope they don't become a problem.. Not had issues with Achilles before..just shins.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Tim, I can identify with taking food on the run.

    According to the Garmin I can still operate at 8:15 mile pace while eating. Though usually I stop and get a load of water down at the same time.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    18 for me too Tim, but considerably slower! 2:21 image To be fair though, it was baking hot and I was running in the hottest part of the day on a hilly route with little shade. I even took a bit of water for once today - glad I did! Longest run since VLM 2011 and a nice OCD pleasing 60.0 for the week

    Legs feel completely mashed now and am very light headed - weighed myself after and I'd lost 6lbs since this morning image. God knows what the hamstrings will be like tomorrow!

    Still, I can look forward to the next one, which is programmed to be the first 20 image

    Your run sounds much more fun Matt! Hope the Achilles turns out to be just a niggle Tim.

    SG has left the building.....(perhaps a few Elvis moves might actually help!)

  • 14 for me, out and back on the Thames from Marlow to Temple Island and back. Out in 54:30 and back in 52:40 so nice and tidy, average pace 7:39 so steady at best. It is definitely getting hot, I would not have wanted to do another 7 for 21 without water and other aids, so glad I killed the autumn marathon. Nice to go out and enjoy running in beautiful countryside.

  • Long runs order of the day then. tunbridge wells half marathon course for me in just shy of 90 mins. Scorchio indeed! 

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    Great running Matt! Sub 16 is there for the taking this summer!

    I 'paced' a charity race last night, I was given a walkie-talkie and was told to stay at the front and announce my arrival at each K marker. This was literally 50 runners as part as one of those midnight stomp things, so nothing official about it.

    Set off, a guy blazes past much quicker than I wanted to go, kept him with 30 seconds so I could radio through and tell HQ where we were. Ended up doing 6.78 miles and going through 10K in sub 39:30. Which was plenty enough after 10miles of parkrun and hills in the morning! It was pitch black in places and the guy ahead had a head torch, he looked pretty tired at the end.

    Chatted at length with him at the end, turns out he's similar to me and runs for a local club so no shame. Find it strange how up for it he was!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Bus, that loss of 6lb's in fluid strikes me as potentially damaging. I expect to drop a pint in sweat every 30 minutes, so it must be replaced. If I'm pushing the pace, the accompanying glycogen depletion will double the loss.

    Since my last 3 runs of 12, 12 & 15 miles were run at average paces of 8:20, 8:02 & 8:01 minute miling, glycogen use was limited. So the pattern of drinking was at least 2 pints on board when leaving the house. Carried another half pint and visited a tap at a local running club. No idea how much I drank there, but at least another pint.

    Overall result was partly, no real fluid loss on completion of the run but mainly no damage.

    84 miles this week, with a six week average of 74 miles. Last day off running 10 weeks ago.

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    Last day off 10 weeks ago? That's a bit mental, even to me. Surely a rest is needed after such high mileage? Great totals by the way. Really putting it in at the moment pal.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Ss, each day is weighed up on its merits. And the measure is how well have I recovered?

    If I have recovered beyond the level of the previous day, then I move on a step. If not, I back track until I do.

    Example: Today was supposed to be a speed session but since I felt not recovered enough from the last session, replaced it with another easy run.

    I ran that session in my lightest racers so some extra recovery was likely to be required. 

    Probably going to retire from racing this September so might as well give the remaining fixtures a decent shot.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Ric, what's going on pal? That is some madcap training! And then then even crazier idea of packing racing in?

    Of course I may be applying the logic of anyone running more than me is doing too much, but I remember I used to do a couple of 70mile weeks and need a break...

    Stevie, so you're there to pace a race, expecting a bunch of slowbies, and some nutter makes a break for it meaning you have to do a semi MP effort at midnight!

    Sounds horrible scenes image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)

    Odd, suddenly a lot of 2012 races have appeared on po10. The summer TVARC series has been addded en-masse as 5KNAD.

    http://www.runbritainrankings.com/results/results.aspx?meetingid=88523
    http://www.runbritainrankings.com/results/results.aspx?meetingid=88524
    http://www.runbritainrankings.com/results/results.aspx?meetingid=88525
    http://www.runbritainrankings.com/results/results.aspx?meetingid=88526

     

    Seems odd. I expect your Datchet chap just sent them in.They certainly should be NAD as well, I remember last summer tracking an old Marlow rival and his times were way off what he would likely do, due to short courses.

    Johnas , Tim, Bus,Phil, very nice long runs.

    At the moment, obviously my runs are a little uncomfy, so I just need to remember if I'm ever running 100% again, to never even dream of moaning when I wake up at 6am and know I'm running long at 7am!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    SS - that's an interesting bit of running!

    Ric - that's some mighty mileage there. All power to your elbow if it's controlled and not damaging, which it certainly seem to be. Wish I could follow suit!  What's this about retiring from racing? Surely if you can be avering 70+ miles a week there's still a fair bit of life in the old dog yet!

    You are probably right about the fluid - very dark pee earlier, whihc was the first one 4 hours after running and drinking about 1.5L of liquid! I wasn't even going to take any water with me, as I've skipped it on all my long runs for the past few months, with no (noticeable) ill effects, and even seem to recover easier. However, today I decided that in this heat, and likely to be out more than two hours I should, so took a 600ml bottle of water, but that didn't even touch the sides. I feel OK now though and am completing my re-hydration with a quality beer!

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    Yep, some lovely 7 miles @6:15 pace at midnight. Random. Never to be repeated!

    14 miles today @ 7:25pace. Felt nice to be running long again. 55 for the week.

  • Hi Guys

    Sorry to crash your thread - just popping out of the lurkers bush for some advice.

    Over the summer I have been putting a bit of focus on 10ks. Reason for this is that I primarily train for marathons, but recently the gap between MP and 10K pace has reduced dramatically (less than 15s!)

    I've done some 10k training along the lines of a plan by McMillan. Example last session: 3 x 2M, 5 min rec 5:50pace, I've also run 6miles @6min/miling on a treaddie fairly comfortably

    I am aiming to get close to 6 min/m in a race, which in theory should be well on - Mcmillan prediction based on my marathon time is 5:45min/m (35:47), but I considered that too much in the time I had available.

    Anyway, to cut to the chase, I've run a few trail 10ks @6:10 pace, and today did Thame 10k. First two miles were fine run in 11:58, then I went completely flat, heavy legged and struggled for a mile before throwing in the towel and jogging back in for about 41mins.

    So I'm completely miserable, and have one more opportunity to post a reasonable time before focusing on the marathon. I'm doing Dorney Dash in 3 weeks and looking for advice on sessions between now and then.

    I'm hoping today was a one off as I have had a few tough weeks including a hamstring strain, cold and virus, several course of antibiotics, some big mileage including some trialling of doubles, and one week over 100miles, and an unscheduled trail marathon.

    Any advice on the next 3 weeks appreciated - currently in a pit of despair image

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    What's your marathon time Also-Ran? 

    McMillan does tend to over-egg the shorter distances if you are a long distance specialist. Also, how do you fare in the heat? I'm guessing that Thame was hot today? Not spectaculalry hot, but much warmer than anything we've had of late and acclimatising to a sudden change can really affect race performance. 

    Another factor to consider is what speed-work you do as a marathoner. Not a huge amount you can do in 3 weeks to be honest, and interval work will probably take more than that to have a dramatic effect. For my money, biggest increase in speed you might get in that time would be by adding in a tempo session (if you don't already do one) of 4 miles at close to target 10M pace, plus a weekly interval session of, say, 4-6x 800m at 10k pace, just to get the legs used to that sort of pace.

    Mind you, with a weekly mileage up to 100M, viruses, and a trail marathon thrown in, its highly likely taht you might just be knackered and need a rest more than anything else!!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, madcap training, yes probably is. My neighbours know me as the 'guy who runs 10 miles before breakfast'.

    Bus, I was so hydrated during my run that I had to stop every now and again to rid myself of the excess. But that's another clue of getting the pace correct for an easy run. The clue is that during easy paced running your kidneys continue to process fluid.

    When you start pushing the pace that process shuts down. That's not the same as your kidneys 'failing'. So an easy run, well hydrated should be characterised by frequent pit stops. Inconvenient perhaps, but its a training run. For me those have no competitive element so no pushing the pace.

    Subject of racing. I can do without the nervous pre-amble and travelling. As for racing conditions, Winter is definately off limits. The cold and damp conditions in XC cause too much damage, so I'll pass on that. Road races in ice cold rain are out too.

    I might reconsider racing but only between March and September inc.

  • Bus, VLM was 2:47:51 - I took one look at McMillan and thought no chance in the couple of months I had. I've had a fair few weeks of intervals plus tempos. I'm really hoping  that today was one to chalk up to experience. Without any input, I will probably do one tempo of 4 or 5 miles, and one interval (mile or 2m reps) this week and next week, and fill in with easy running and a long run. 

    My mileage is back to sensible numbers (50 - 60). Weather was ok for me today (I had run 37:20 on a treadmill with no aircon a couple of weeks back!) Perhaps I need more tapering. Is there any merit in doing shorter faster reps (if not for this time, then next time) for 10k training

  • AR, one thing to consider is that the body can't go on for ever and you need to train it in cycles. For elite athletes this cycle may be a year long cycle so they come to a peak once a year at the summer games but for many of us it is two 6 month cycles so we have a vague aim of a few key races in a reasonable window and train for them. On the 3:15 thread this is obviously a spring and autumn marathon but here SG does not like to talk about such foolery so we talk about different race but the same principle.

    You had a great race at VLM and it isn't clear to me how the body reacts after such a run. I raced a marathon in the spring of 2011 (Stratford, May 2011) and I came out the back of that with lots of strength for the next couple of months and ran a good 10k and a few good track 5ks. In 2012 I did VLM but had nothing in the tank afterwards and am only just back on course. My basic assumption is that in 2011 the marathon was at the start of a peak window (so my training began literally 16 weeks before the race)  but in 2012 it was at the end (so my training began on October 27 2011 with a 14 miler).

    So in simple terms, the vague plan is to target a race or set of races, and then after  these take some down time and then repeat. Each cycle should ratchet you up a bit. If you are not where you want to be consider that either you have not rested enough after one cycle or you have rested and are on a building phase.

    http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/running/how-long-should-my-training-cycles-be.aspx

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    there are plenty of lurkers on this thread so its good to provide balance as there are many ways to train.  But i would say if you are stopping to have a number of toilet breaks on a sunday morning long run then you have over hydrated IMO.  2 pints of water before a long run sounds excessive. i probably have closer to 300ml

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