Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    I tend to agree Dean. Usually half litre of OJ/water mix for me, but a bit more if hot. Maybe one or two pee stops over a couple of hours. 

    Also-ran - that's an absolutely fantastic VLM time and you should be able to turn that into a cracking 10k time, but only once the fatigue has left your legs!

  • Thanks for your comments. Thanks for the link PMJ, although I set myself a fairly soft target for the summer due to time constraints and a bit of downtime.

    On reflection, I've done what I wanted in training - pushed out my 10k time. I would like to put this 'in writing' by running it in a race. So I have 3 weeks left, and maybe the question is more, what should I not do in the run up to a 10k race.What for example would the final week look like in the run up to a 10k race, and when would you run your last hard session if it was an 'A' race

    7 miles at lunch in the sun was run at a steady 6:50 pace which was 80% max heart rate.  Yesterday about 10seconds per mile quicker, with heart rate over 90% - something was up so I'll stay positive for 3 weeks time and get back on the horse I just fell off.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Interesting views on hydration Dean ,Bus.

    Ok then, a session for me this morning. 2 mile warm up then 20 x 400m at 5:20's. I commenced one rep every two minutes so the recovery wasn't too long.

    Finished the session, had something to eat and drink and then another 4 miles as recovery. Back in the house at 7:15am, so an early start.

    Also taking advantage of the relative peace and quiet of the morning was a middle aged guy in a suit, carrying a violin. He walked past me while I was mid session.

    On the run home I came across the same guy having a dump on the pavement in broad daylight. Like the good Samaritan I am, I stopped and gave him my prodigious supply of toilet paper. He was very grateful, and drunk!

    Speed session at 6:00am, plus that!

    You couldn't make it up.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Classic! did you give the violinist the loo roll with no strings attached though?

    No run today, just 6 miles paddling, the last mile of which was not only against the current but also into a fierce wind - not so easy in an inflatable kayak!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Bus, my demeanor was that of someone who comes across this sort of thing on a daily basis. Hell! when you gotta go, you gotta go!

    However, I did notice that the projected average mile split on the Garmin ramped up after the encounter, as I put some distance between us, rapidly.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    even I'd tick the guy off for not at least having my powers of always finding somewhere discreet.

    but let's back track...you did a session of 5miles at quicker than your 5k pace, off tiny recoveries?

    You best lay a fast race down soon, or we'll be asking what all this training is for old son.

    As for me, i'm in a kinda pointless zone of ticking over, achieving nothing, and it's all very dull and pony at the moment...

    hopefully that'll change at some time, or I might beat you to a retirement party Ric!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, The guy was completely stymied having been caught out on a road called George V Avenue near Hatch End. 

    Its a piece of dual carriage way flanked on either side by high chain linked fences to stop the cattle wandering onto the road. No hiding place. Bummer, literally!

    Ticking over & pointless zones. I've had any number of those, some lasted for months on end. At one point that I began to think if I could break 40 minutes for a 10k again, I'd be doing well.

    In the end I decided that being able to run pain free was good enough. My aim is to remain that way.

    Training numbers are confusing at the moment. Firstly, my weight has dropped to 56kg which has caused problems with co-ordination. Namely, I'm not used to running at such a light weight, so my timing is a bit out.

    The second thing is to remind myself that if I want to race faster then I'd better snap myself out of the comfort zone; which used to be hard work, and move things up a level.

    So I'm not sure what my 5k actually is at the moment. When I ran the 18:31 on the track, it was off minimal training, a cold and I weighed 61kg.

    I'd probably take one or two seconds off that time at the moment.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    You'd smash 18.31 by miles I guarantee it.  Cripes, off that session you'd have a go at beating my pb!

    Be careful with the weight business though, sounds like you're straying slightly into obsessive mode...and I'm not sure on kg, but that sounds pretty light...

    I don't really ever weigh myself, but I know I must be at a good "racing weight" as I attract the odd comment about being very slim, and also my boss giving me a light punch on the arm today blimmin hurt image

  • Bluenose74Bluenose74 ✭✭✭

    Top training and racing guys, including you Stevie with your set backs...

    Ric... I'm envious mate, I've struggling to lose a Kg (shit, just got some crumbs on the key board), upped the mileage, but hasn't a effect yet...

    Positives for last month, completed 200miles of training and racing in a month, first time for me... Knocked a second off my 10km pb on a course way out of my comfort zone... And sadly thats it, two positives...

    Strangly, at this moment, I feel confident in acheiving my aims for 5k & 10k that I set myself for this year, if tho they may appear ridiculous at the moment...

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Lets face it,  distance running is an extreme activity and prone to areas of obsessiveness.

    If I am obsessive about running then those around me are largely unaware of it, as the subject doesn't warrant any discussion beyond this thread.

    As for weight, I don't see too many comments about Mo Farah's weight. 

    Actually its about losing 'fat' not weight. The weight loss is simply a byproduct of losing the fat. Avoiding weight loss due to muscle wastage and dehydration is the priority.

    That's obsessive.

     

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    Serious case of DOMS for me at the minute. It's like someone's injected my quads with concrete. Theres me sniggering at my mates and I've felt the full force of the hills. 

    What do you lot find helps? Was hoping to run the sale sizzler on Thursday. Had a 4 mile trot yesterday morning and was fine. Had to drive to Watford and back yesterday and getting out of the van crippled me. 8/9 hours sat on your backside is good for nobody. 

  • Also-ran wrote (see)

    So I have 3 weeks left, and maybe the question is more, what should I not do in the run up to a 10k race.What for example would the final week look like in the run up to a 10k race, and when would you run your last hard session if it was an 'A' race

     

    OK, so evidence based approach. I ran a marathon on May 8th 2011 and then got stuck into sped work fairly soon afterwards. 1 easy week (32 miles) then 3 weeks of 5k races and track sessions and about 40 miles a week, then one odd week which had a 1:28 half in training and then an easy week of 5, 5k race in 17:56, 7 and then day off, 5, day off and race 10k. So my last hard session was the Tuesday, Wednesday recovery, Thursday off, Friday gentle, Saturday off and race Sunday.

  • Just exercising a bit of a conspiracy theory here. Saturday is the Runnymede Relays and SG has said his 150th may be a relay and I know Sandhurst have entered the relays so there is a chance of SG running.

    The relays are 6 legs (3 long at 5.25 miles and 3 short at 2.75 miles) but only 3 senior men so you need 3 vets, juniors (under 16) or ladies to make up numbers (and looking at the results there are only 5 ladies in the top 50 on the short leg so it is mostly vets and a sprinkle of juniors).

    I have got leg 6 which I am quite looking forward to. In a relay you have to run to give the team the best chance of winning which means a slightly conservative start and then wring out whatever you have left in the second half. Last leg is a bit different as it is about position so you don't have to defend or develop a time lead, you just have to look at position.

    2.75 is short, looking at times you have to knock a couple of minutes off a 5k so something in the low 16 minutes for me will be the target.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Matt - foam rolling and time!

    Bluenose - two positives is much better than none image

    Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)
    Also-ran wrote (see)

    So I have 3 weeks left, and maybe the question is more, what should I not do in the run up to a 10k race.What for example would the final week look like in the run up to a 10k race, and when would you run your last hard session if it was an 'A' race

     

    OK, so evidence based approach. I ran a marathon on May 8th 2011 and then got stuck into sped work fairly soon afterwards. 1 easy week (32 miles) then 3 weeks of 5k races and track sessions and about 40 miles a week, then one odd week which had a 1:28 half in training and then an easy week of 5, 5k race in 17:56, 7 and then day off, 5, day off and race 10k. So my last hard session was the Tuesday, Wednesday recovery, Thursday off, Friday gentle, Saturday off and race Sunday.

    I'd broadly agree with that, though I'd be inclined to make the Tuesday hard session shorter than normal, have Thursday gentle, Friday off, and a really easy leg loosener of 3 miles with some strides in the middle on Saturday. personally I find my legs stiffen too much if I ahve the day off before the race.

    Surprisingly good run this morning after Sunday's long one. Legs felt in reasonable condition and the pace was a fair bit faster than average for the route (5.5M xc) . will be interesting to see how the double home goes tonight. Easyish week though, as Risborough 10k on Sunday.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Philip_M_Jones wrote (see)

    Just exercising a bit of a conspiracy theory here. Saturday is the Runnymede Relays and SG has said his 150th may be a relay and I know Sandhurst have entered the relays so there is a chance of SG running.

    If you can find where I said anything even hinting at that, I'll give you a biscuit.
    image

    And Ric old son, you didn't just bring up an elite African runner as an alibi for your weight obsession did you?image

    RicF wrote (see)

    As for weight, I don't see too many comments about Mo Farah's weight.

     

  • biscuits are bad for my weight

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, the last 28 days have been: Off one run per day.

    12,9,12,11,10,12,12,10,12,12,8,10,10,12,12,12,10,12,15,11,12,12,10,12,12,15,11,12

    Bold italics are the sessions.

    Bold underline is the race.

    All the rest is easy recovery stuff.

    Only wish someone had showed me how to achieve this sort of thing 25 years ago.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    almost like you're under going some kind of running mid life crisis, what with the talk of crazy sequence one minute, and talking about quitting the next!

    I at least am feeling borderline like a runner again. Got a really light session prescribed, 3m easy, 2m steady, 2m MP.

    Felt a bit achey midway, but bizarrely the 5.59 + 6.04 miles to close felt better than the rest.

    Step by step. 4miles this evo. 12mile tomorrow morning, then nothing until Friday.

    Just for value got heckled with the classic "GET THOSE KNEES UP" for the first time ever.

    Bizarrely was by some granny who must have been 80+ and she barked it with an incredible amount of resentment!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Not the running SG, just the racing. If it is some sort of mid-life item then I'm destined to live to 104!

    I've had that "knees up, shoulders back" nonsense. My first thought was 'where the hell have you been for the past 30 years or so'?

    The sequence is based on a training block from the book 'Winning Without Drugs'.

    It takes into consideration the three components that make up most sessions of speed, power and endurance and gives greater emphasis to which one is most relevant to up coming races.

    Since my next race is on Sunday, and on the flat. Its the speed element that has been the chosen element of late.

    As for speed. According to the Garmin I'll have to be really careful not to over cook things on Sunday. My capacity to operate in the sub 5:50's for any length of time is still quite limited and along with my capacity to really hurt myself in a race standing at nil, I expect caution to be the strategy.

    I'll confess that at the last race I was slightly put out that a certain V50 just ran away from me despite him nursing a torn hamstring.

     

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Myself and a friend were once heckled by an old lady when we were at university in Swansea when we were just walking along the street minding our own business.  She started yelling about students and giving us V signs.  She even put down her shopping bags so she could use both hands.

    Hi all, by the way.  Good running all, nice to see SG back amongst the sessions, and a very impressive 800 from Dean leading to unjust disqualification.  I am prepared to join in any mass protests you have planned.

    I haven't reported much, as I haven't had much to report.  Mainly slow marathon training.  Tried 17 with 8 @MP on Sunday morning, but couldn't complete the MP - not used to sessions first thing in the morning, plus it was hot - wouldn't usually struggle with 8 at 6 mm pace  I had a look at my training leading up to Berlin last year and compared it to my training plan this year, out of interest.  I note that in the 18 weeks leading up to Berlin, I ran 11+ miles 20 times, whereas my current P&D plan has me running 11+ miles 45 times.  Therein, it seems, lies the key to my relative underperformance last year.  More medium long runs needed.

    Yateley 10K again tomorrow.  Hopefully I haven't forgotten how to run at 10K pace.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    edited, remembering my status as an "obvious online presence"

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    I got loudly sworn and shouted at by some random mad old lady on Sunday too (must have beeen the heat!)

    RicF wrote (see)

    Lets face it,  distance running is an extreme activity and prone to areas of obsessiveness.

    If I am obsessive about running then those around me are largely unaware of it, as the subject doesn't warrant any discussion beyond this thread.

    As for weight, I don't see too many comments about Mo Farah's weight. 

    Actually its about losing 'fat' not weight. The weight loss is simply a byproduct of losing the fat. Avoiding weight loss due to muscle wastage and dehydration is the priority.

    That's obsessive.

     


    Obsessive is the word the lazy use to descirbe the commited.

    According to the team GB website, Mo Farah weighs 58kg and is 5'4".....

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    I think Mo Farah is closer to 50kg if not under. Gebrselassie is 7 stone 12lb's. If you see these guys close up, one look and you know you're Billy Bunter!

    Dachs, with 24 runs of 11 miles and over in the last six weeks myself, maybe I should  have a go at a marathon. My club is conducting a marathon on a running track in a few weeks, I might turn up and have a go.

    On reflection I think that some aspect of the Mental Health Act may have some bearing on a decision like that. I'd rather be free to go for a run than be locked away somewhere safe.

    Bluenose, my weight held on in a stubborn fashion until I stopped putting milk in my coffee. How much fat is in that stuff?

    PMJ, I worked at McVities for a while and it really was a case of product testing. You could grab a new pack of Hob Nobs straight off the line and tuck in. I saw guys nail almost an entire pack for lunch.

    I was in charge of Mini Cheddas.

    I don't eat Mini Cheddas now or ever again.

    Spent several of the past few years living on biscuits. Soon after coming on to this thread I eradicated them all 99.99%. I'm still in the process of burning off the trans fat. It may prove medically impossible.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    I saw Mo Farah at that Bupa 10k from about 1/2metre range. And he is super midget and super lithe. Incredible.

    Ric, joking and fear of meltdowns aside, your training does promise some interesting times ahead I'm sure.

    Agreed on the track marathon. You have to be a special kind of weirdo to get involved in those.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, my experience of decent volume training is that there is a 'pay off' at some point. When that point is can be a surprise, that training goes somewhere and isn't wasted.

    When I had best part of 18 months off from May 94 until Nov 95 (I gave up since I just couldn't improve) I spent the whole of 96 building up miles until in early 97 I had some set-back. I ran minimal mileage until May of that year and following some illness which caused a weight loss entered a race with the idea of just getting around.

    I won it at sub 5:30 pace!

    Went on for the next 18 months to shatter every PB I had. 

    So even if there's no immediate result from my latest antics, if I stick the pattern for 12 weeks then I'll get something out of it.

    Its an investment approach. You just have to believe its going to pay off. Takes some nerve if your idea of long term is about 10 days. How about 18 months, or more?

     My second claim club is full of weirdos.

    Including me I guess. I've been awake since 3:00am.image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    you must regret messing about not running for 18months!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    So, all I need is a serious case of Crohn's and my times should tumble image

    It's funny how that picture of Cooray next to Mo on the VOAAC website makes Cooray look large image

    I love Mini Cheddars by the way! My biggest lard intake weakness is not from biscuits (thought they do feature) but danish pastries and beer (usually at opposite ends of the day!)

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    Track Tuesday for me.  2*4*400 target 66 secs off 90 rec with 5 mins between.

    63, 66, 65, 66. Then 66, 65, 66 but on the 7th rep I felt my Achilies and limped in.  Stretched during the recovery but realised after 5 steps of the final rep it wasn't right so I stood off the track.   Currently icing it so hope I caught it early enough.   Was flying in the session so annoying it ended the way it did.  

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    Only missed a rep Dean, and a wise decision to step off and live to fight another day. Try a cold water bath to full emerge it, they work wonders for me.  

    1200 x 2, 1000 x 2, 800 x 2, 400 x 2 for me. Rec 3, 2.5, 2 and 1mins.

    4:08, 4:08, 3:28, 3:27, 2:44, 2:43, 78, 74. BIG headwind on the back straight and felt pretty grim all the way through so just pleased to finish.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Stevie G . wrote (see)

    you must regret messing about not running for 18months!

    Not at all. Before I was a runner I had made a name for myself in the Angling world.

    I spent that 18 months proving once and for all, that I could catch anything if I felt like it. Which is why I don't fish anymore. Nothing to prove.

    Here's a typical day at Startops Reservoir Tring.

    /members/images/493151/Gallery/tring.png

     And I was catching these things.

    /members/images/493151/Gallery/perch.png

     No, it isn't dead.

    Its a perch weighing over 2lb's, which is; for an average angler, a fish they might catch once in their lifetime.

    I caught over 100 like this in less than a year.

    You would have to be an angler to appreciate any of this.

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