Moraghan Training - Stevie G



  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Been back a short while so doing a spot of sorting out and catching up.

    Well done Bus and the other racers this weekend. As for my own race, here's a snap shot taken at the half way mark.






     Certain amounts of information contained within. 

    The first couple of runners behind me, I had just passed. My club mate had been hanging on to me, until now.

    By the finish I was over 2 minutes ahead of him, as for the other guys, no idea but judging by the speed I passed them at, not much better.

    Temperature at 11:00am 26c. Preparations as stated. Forgot the sun-glasses.

    Some speed merchants (800m & 1500m) from the host club fancied their chances and promptly tore off at the start. I kept things nice and steady and a 5:44 1st mile was ok. 

    The fast starters were already coming back and a rather breezy 2nd mile of 5:55 was a tad too fast for a few of them. Mile 3 came up in 5:48 which considering the tail wind had reduced all cooling effect to zero, was ok in the oven like conditions.

    I wasn't flagging, anyone ahead that I could see appeared to be getting closer all the time. Very windy awkward 4th mile yielded a mere 6:01 split but the final mile of 5:52 took another couple of runners out of the frame.

    Finish time of 29:21 for 8th place wasn't high speed, but one second faster than last year which was run in cool conditions.

    60 minutes on the indoor bike as recovery, glass or two of wine, pizza on its way. Great!

    I'll enjoy tomorrow's 12 mile recovery run. That's a 5:30am start, a one mile jog, scoff a bagel filled with tuna, chased down with 500ml of water and then spend the best part of two hours stop/start mucking about.

    Multiple pit stops inc.

    So hot conditions, scant water replacement. Explain the benefits, anyone.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    I love the relish with which you bitterly destroy the over jealous starters image

    Tidy race.

    Eating a bagel and tuna right before running? Sooner you than me. And just how much water do you take on that makes you have to stop so much! image

    ps I get the Murray Tennis thing, but the amount of people raving about it, when i'm certain they wouldn't watch 5mins more of tennis in the year is truly baffling.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG. When I wake up, I drink a mug of tea. Over the course of an hour I'll have another two mugs, but of black coffee with the full consignment of caffeine. No sugar.

    I then head out with 250 ml of water in a bum bag & holding another 500ml of water in one hand and the bagel breakfast in the other.

    One mile later I empty my hands and off I go. After 6 or 7 miles I drink the 250mls.

    If I've got things right I'll feel like stopping once every 15 minutes. Bench mark of getting the hydration completely right is having to stop just before and after the run finishes.

    At one level it does sound like a disjointed mess until after a couple of rounds you realise you don't feel tired after a run anymore and could easily smash out a fast one (mile) in the latter stages; which of course during a recovery run is not done.

    Tennis does appear to induce examples of mass hysteria. I'm immune to such things myself. As for Murray his ability to run fast 400m's as part of his training is not widly known about. Sub 60 seconds if interested.

  • Great racing this weekend in the heat!

    I ran 18 miles / 2'10" after work, capping a 67 mile week.  I aimed to throw in 4 miles at MP towards the end but didn't have it in me.. Was hot and my Achilles hurt. Did a few miles in the no-man's land zone between easy and MP that I could describe as either not so easy pace or a theoretical Ultra Marathon Pace (UMP). 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    big run Tim. I might have missed it, but presuming you're Autumn marathon training then!?

  • Yep, Chester for me. Sort of wish I wasn't.  I was enjoying having my toenails back and not being knackered! 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Marathon training definitely seems to bring some people on majorly for other distances. Can see that from this thread.

    But personally, I think it'd destroy me.

    Even yesterday I was thinking, I wish this was a shorter leg, and that was only a 5 1/4 ish leg!

  • Stevie, I see where you're coming from. I'm dreading a 10k next Sunday! I've been ramping up Sunday runs but not much threshold over the past few weeks, so whilst I'm increasing fitness, my endurance is not there for 10k and HM yet.. 

    My interval sessions have been quite 5k specific... Sort of easing into the marathon with long runs and a longer midweek run.  Will start changing my quality sessions over the next few weeks. Less need for the fast pace sessions every week I suppose. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    yeah, i'd think you'd probably cut the short stuff out completely, and start smashing the longer MP miles out

    I've got a 6miles MP Tuesday. Will be my first proper session in a month. Earlier this year I was doing tonnes of these types of runs, but then it went to shorter distance stuff, so threshold got parked.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Busy busy weekend then...

    Nice (long) reports from the relay men SG and PMJ.  Congratulations to both on your top-2 finishes.  I was asked whether I wanted to run as part of our team, but I mistakenly thought it was a different weekend, so I said I couldn't.  To be honest, in yesterday's heat, I was quite happy with that.

    Sounds like SG hadn't as feared lost the ability to run fast at all.  I'm sure on your day you'd have been closer o the times laid down by those Datchet chaps, but I reckon that will come back quickly.  Good to see a trademark SG keen start again (it's been a while since there's been one of those), and also nice to see your team photographed from a variety of angles.  How come there's only 4 of you?

    PMJ, the chap you reference as cutting corners and taking shortcuts is the same bloke who finished 10 seconds ahead of me at Yateley on Wednesday (and finished behind me in the first race).  I was chatting to him afterwards, seemed a nice chap.  He didn't take any shortcuts at Yateley.  His record has a load of Camp Bastion parkrun wins on it, maybe finding alternative routes to avoid IEDs is just part of life out there.

    Still, nice work on anchoring the team to victory.  Did you use both arms to celebrate, or just the one? image

    Johnas, full marks on the win.  The track is usually the preserve of smooth faced youngsters, so it's good to see a gnarly chap such as yourself strike a blow for the over 30s. Long distance on the track must be an odd thing psychologically, they do often come out slower than your road time.

    Bus, well done on celebrating  crossing into a new category by winning it.  I wouldn't have wanted to run anywhere after about 9 am today, so I certainly don't envy you, and it sounds like a good time given the conditions.  Your races really always seem to generate the same old faces, you must be getting bored of it by now surely.

    Ric, likewise good performance in the heat.  Clearly the complicated hydration/fish based approach to nutrition is paying off.

    My training plan had a 10 including 5 at LT for this week, so I did it yesterday morning incorporating a parkrun - 5.5 easy, parkrun @ LT (17:04, so a bit eager than I should have been, but I was out in front so I thought I should secure the win at least), then a couple of minutes breather to say hello to some people, then 2 miles @ LT (5:40, 5:38), and finishing with 1 mile easy.  Nice session, much easier to do tempo when it's part of a parkrun.  Then 16 at about 6:55 pace this morning.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    your training is seeing you off into the sunset old Dachs. Hard to remember sometimes you've swept in and got here off a couple of years of work. Rather than the scenic route me and Bus took.

    Saw a chap on my run from my old club who reminds me of Bus. Not in age, as he's 60+, but the same old school approach of doing the same fave races year in year out.

    I'm certain he was driving to Risborough.

    He's a good guy, but i'll never forget his less than warm "I don't know who you are" greeting at the first XC I did at 2006.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Even Colin Steptoe commented to me that I do Risborough every year when he gave me my medal as he recognised my address from the entry form!

    It's not so much that I do them as fave races though, just more that I can't be arsed to travel further than the local ones too oftenimage

    Nice LT that Dachs - I've been considering whether using the local parkrun for a simialr session kight work myself. 

    Ric - very good result that and you are in a good place if you are feeling strong toward the end still on a day like today! Mind you, your long run of 70+M weeks must have helped a bit image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    just one last random post before bed...I know a chap on my fb who did 234miles this week!!


  • Geez! That's absolutely mental! I'm feeling it at 67! 

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    234M? IS that actually possible???

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    he's always favoured high classing 100miles as a cut back week, but then got into ultras and it's jus escalated...

    it's by this thread's standards very slow miles.

    but still!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Must just be running the whole week!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Quandary of the week - I've scheduled in a 20M road run for tomorrow evening, but the exact time I would be doing it is forecast to be the hottest part of the week!

    Unfortunately it's not really practical to do it another time this week due to work, family stuff and the practicality of getting to work. So, do I cut it short and stay on road or do I go off-road, where the pace will be easier and there will be a lot more shade, for 2.5 hours, or do I simply cut my losses and do 2 hours off-road? 

    Philip - how many 20+ runs did you do in the run up to VLM? I know they're are not the only measure of that exemplar campaign, but a good starting point!

    Decisions, decisions!

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Bus - I've also got a road 20 planned tomorrow, albeit maybe a little later in the day (early evening).  I'm just going to do it as planned, albeit maybe do a couple of loops past the house with some water waiting for me outside.  That way, if Abingdon is unseasonally hot, I will have done the warm weather training.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    If the end of October is as hot as tomorrow evening (26+ deg!) then we'd really better start worrying about those ice-caps!

    How can you run past your house, not just once but twice, on a 20 miler?? Talk about mental toture image (why not just take a drink?).

    Mind you, I expect you'll be out in the heat for a lot less time than me tomorrow anyway image

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    One way to make loops less mentally challenging is by doing loops decreasing in length.  My longest run for Berlin was a 24, which I did as 3 loops, 10, 8 and 6.  This broke it down quite nicely, so you knew that the next loop would be shorter.

    I never run with a drink, and am not about to start.  Holding something for 20 miles sounds like a monumental pain in the backside.

  • Bus. I took my Camelbak yesterday. Drank 750 mls and ate a flapjack. Stopped at a hospital at 10 miles to have a pee and throw water over my head. Managed ok, though couldn't run on pace. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Fair play to you fellas, 20milers midweek wow!

    I remember a couple of Friday night 16milers, but that's the weekend and wasn't hot, but midsummer and midweek. Hat is donned to you both.

    Dachs, glad you mentioned you'll be taking on the water outside your house....Ric would be up in arms otherwise.

  • Another good weekend's racing for you chaps.

    Injury update:

    Managed 3km at lunch today. Ran very easy at what I call WP - wife pace (now sub 40min for 5km). Garmin on, but was not looking at it.

    Some calf stiffness for the first couple 100m then it eased off. Always thinking I could feel something in the achilles, but it was fine. Definitely something at the bottom of the LH calf, but that would go hand in hand with my assumption of tigh calfs.

    Depsite the heat it felt great to be back in trainers. I now need to keep a lid on it; may schedule another run for Wed or Thur. I may even wait and do Parkrun with the wife on Saturday - the heady heights of a 5km!

    Will happily take any pointers on how slowly to build milage and quantity of runs per week (up to 3). I have learnt the lesson and will back off at the first sign of a niggle.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Don't don your hat just yet SG - still might not happen! Especially after my trip to the physio today!

    Sounds like a fair strategy Dachs. I carry a drink in one of those holster style waist packs. It can carry up to a 750ml bottle and I hardly notice it's even there (helped by being used to using a waist pack when I run to work I guess as well as for statutory lit in fell races) . It also takes a phone, MP3 player and a couple of gels without bouncing around or rubbing. Juts means you can take regular sips and head off wherever.

    Tim - bit extreme needing a hospital for a pee! Do you not find a camelback makes your back a bit warm? 

    As for the physio, he's still convinced it is priformis, aggravated by an ongoing, underlying back issue. He's given me a few more exercises, but basically said I need to cut right back or risk it just carrying on like this or getting worse and stopping me doing Abingdon at all....

  • Iron... a few years ago I found I would get injured, rest, rush back, get injured, rest, rush back etc so i devised a base mileage building plan after reading some stuff by American coach Warren Finke. It was based on this article here

    In the end, the plan looked like this and worked to get me back slowly but surely. It was purely based on easy running and followed the principle sof the article (increasing mileage every 3 weeks, hard/easy rule etc). Not saying "you must follow this" but it may be of interest when looking at your own come back trail.




    Bus - fingers crossed for you that it's not a show stopper mate.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Iron, sounds frustrating, so good you can see the lighter side with the Wife pace!

    There's those type of injuries, and those niggly ones where you can run through, but not do the top end stuff. Both are annoying.

    Bus, good to have a diagnosis, but piriformis is one of those annoying blanket terms isn't it! All you can do is strengthen and try and carry on, but how do you do that when you're trying to ramp it up for a marathon!

  • Bus there was something on the radio at lunch about chairs that cause back pain. Someone rang in and suggested men shouldn't drive with their wallets in their back pocket as it also causes problems. 

    Thanks Johnas,  I'll review. SG I've run through niggles before but this needs to be resolved up front. 

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Stevie G . wrote (see)

    Dachs, glad you mentioned you'll be taking on the water outside your house....Ric would be up in arms otherwise.

    Easiest most comfortable after race run I've had to date. 12 miles XC, not an ache, pain or element of fatigue apparent at any stage. Result!


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Sorry Iron, missed your post earlier. Johnas schedule looks the ticket. One thing that is tricky though is judging when to stop when building up if a niggle does come back, becuase there may be a bit of residual that eases when you run through it. As a rough rule of thumb, if I get the same pain from a recovering injury and it lasts for more than about 10 mins of running I'll give up.

    Johnas - cheers - me too! SG - if I was sensible I'd take a break now, to leave time to build up to Abo. It's hard to do that though, when I'm running reasonably well and the pain is only when I'm not running! I'm going to take best part of a week off after Wycombe though anyway.

    Ric - I'd wager that's just as much a result of your monster training as the tuna roll and hydration! Incidentally, I did a 6M hilly xc this morning and felt suprisingly fine (nettle rash aside image)

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