Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    Cracking session Johnas. Really like the look of that one. I've always wondered, 5K pace increases Vo2 Max, Threshold develops lactate threshold. But what is the main benefit of 10K pace? A bit of both or just a harder version of threshold pace with higher benefit yield? I'll definitely take that session into my 10K training though.

    So Chris... after asking us all if you should rest then agreeing you should you ran until you couldn't complete the session and your legs gave out? image Good lad! Ha ha! I'd have done the same (and have done many a time) image

  • It's one thing knowing what you should do. Doing it however...

    Im my defence, I did tell the others in the group I wanted to take it easy. Oh, how they laughed.

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    Bit of a dilemma, supposed to be running the sale sizzler tonight and then a 5000 track race for my club on Saturday. If I don't run a sub 16 on sat ill more than likely miss out getting picked for the play off. 

    Whats people's thoughts on doing both? Too much? It's also supposed to piss it down on saturday so don't want to miss tonight then have a rain affected attempt on say where I could end up with nowt. 

  • **delurks**

    Hello all,

    Just wondered if I could ask the southerners among you: what is the general consensus on how much time the Wycombe half is worth over a flat course like Silverstone or Wokingham?

    Thanks

  • mattl - one day recovery is pretty tight but you're a fit lad. i'd say do tonight and at least if things don't pan out, you've got Saturday as a back up. My view points have changed a bit about races close together after the other week where I ran an ok 10k on the Saturday and then ran by far my best race ever the next day at The Anniversary 5 miler.

    hi JD - SG, Bus or PMJ are well placed to give you a good answer to this and I'm sure they'll be along sooner rather than later.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Howdy JD3, stats for the 4 years I'd done Wycombe the same year as Silverstone or Wokingham below...

    Year                       Silverstone            Wycombe
    2004                         1:31:07                1:28:42
    2005                         1:29:53                1:34:21
    2006                         1:25:46                1:28:46

                                  Wokingham          Wycombe
    2010                        1:19:21                  1:24:49

    That Wycombe 2004 stands out as a particularly good performance on a hugely hot day if I remember right.

    2006 marked the end of my 5 year sequence at Wycombe, and only went back for the half once, in 2010 which was pretty shoe horned in, and as you can tell, when you do that you come out underpar!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    JD3 - Wycombe consistently comes out two and a half to three minutes slower than Wokingham for me. My best at Wokingham is 1:19:07, and at Wycombe, 1:21:46. I've not done Silverstone. 

    Combination of hills, pavements and temperature difference.

    Having a crap week this week for lots of reasons, but running is no exception - had to abandon Tuesday night's long run after just 6.5M as the legs were just having none of it. Time for a rest and to take stock....

  • SG / Bus: Thanks - I would think that profile wise Silverstone is comperable to Wokingham, perhaps marginally flatter- but at the pointy end it's a bit of a ghost town. 2.30 - 3 mins discrepancy is about what I hoped, and seems to tie up with SGs times (except 2004!)

     

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    Cheers johnas, it turns out I can't make the play off meeting in September anyway as I'm doing Ben Nevis so I can't be picked anyway. Looks like its all in on sale tonight. 

    Hope the rest does you good Bus. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Silverstone certainly is a bit of a chimp's tea party times wise these days. I think i'd be top 10 nowadays.

    I never used to get there early enough to start where I should do on the grid either. Always started in the sub 1hr 45 pen, and one time, from the back, 5mins after it had started!

    In the old days of racing I didn't even think about courses profiles, conditions etc, it was all so easy as you didn't really have targets. These days I'd probably lose 1-2mins in my head before I even got to the start line at Wycombe!

    Bit of a ropey spell at the moment, one where the niggles seem to drag on. Kinda not missing any runs but minimising the quality stuff that brings you on.

    However, today, wondering how the pelvis/hip would be, I realised  I had a really sharp feeling in the ribs, one that ached to fully exhale on.

    Finished the 6, but aches a bit just breathing fully on it now.

    This might be a sign to take a proper bit of downtime

  • Whatever you do don't google 'rib pain', SG. You've probably got tuberculosis.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Rib pain!

    John Hurt in the film 'Alien' comes to mind.

  • Or pleurisy. Had it once. It's not as bad as it sounds. But yeah, step away from google SG! 

  • Back from Sale. That was the second hardest 5k I've done this season. Even my warm up was difficult. We suddenly experienced 30 degree temps . 

    Started off with a 78s lap then 1st k st 3:20, which was my goal pace. Thought I was on the same pace but noticed I was way off at 3k, going though in 10:12. I felt like quitting at 3k, felt like dying at 4k, just about held on, gained a few places and crossed the line with a less than explosive last 200m. 

    My watch displayed 16:58... Hope they don't add on 2 seconds! 

    It was at least 10secs off last time's result, but felt happy as others were 20 secs off  because of the unusual heat! 

  • Official result... 16:57.. At least it's under 17.. 

    Mattl... Did you run? How did you get on?

     

  • That's a good result there Tim. I was tempted but big miles and gym sessions have put pay to any racing till next week.

    10.5 miles Tues, then 7.8 miles yesterday. I brought my rest day forward as I couldn't walk today. The strengthening sessions are all body weight based but really playing hell with my quads and glutes. Must be working though.

    Bus, hope everything is OK. Don't get too disheartened. Just keep trying to tick off the easy miles, that way you won't lose much (if any) fitness.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Nice work Tim - when I first went well under 17 last year, a frustration was that I couldn't consistently do it in subsequent races (likewise sub 35 for 10K), so consolidating at under 17 is not to be underestimated.

    Sorry to hear it's been a bad week for Bus and SG.  Bus, I honestly think canning the marathon and taking some time off may be in order.  Shame, was looking forward to seeing you there, but not sure it's sensible to keep pushing yourself towards that as a goal.

    I'm hitting big miles at the moment.  78 last week.  Set for 83 this week.  295 for July.  Certainly feels like a lot.  Most of it is well boring though. traipsing around at 7:xx miles.  Really looking forward to hitting the track in the last few weeks of marathon training, to see if I can still run fast.  Tried it yesterday, at the end of a 15 - 10 x 100m strides.  Well the first one was hilarious, it was like I had suddenly had my legs swapped with a shrivelled old man, could't manage anything more than abrisk jog.  Loosened up a bit after that though.

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    Just back from Sale myself. I'll echo Tims comments regarding the heat. First time I've raced when its been really warm. Had plenty of fluid before but the sweat was just rolling off me. 

    Watch was in miles so I tend to ignore the km markers. 1sI mile in 5.05 then the pain, doubts, confusion, fatigue kicked in. Really had to dig in and was absolutely certain that by the time I was into mile 3 I was looking at a 16.30 or so. A lad who I went past after mile one came bounding past me and another who I was trying to tail the whole race was slowly getting away. The amount of thoughts I have during a race is unbelievable. the urge to quit and throw it in was there from mile one onwards as I was finding it so tough. 

    Approaching the track for the last 200m i looked at my watch and it went to 15.20 then you've to run around the outside lanes. Gave it everything I had and crossed the line before falling in a heap on the grass unable to breath. 15.58 was my time so really pleased as thats 2 sub 16s in 5 days. 

    I don't know what goes on in my head during races but I very nearly threw it in thinking I was way off pace when in fact I wasn't. I found Lancaster a much quicker course IMO. obviously it was really warm but having to overtake runners on the second lap and the number of turns made it seem really difficult.  there's 16 turns that are all pretty much 90degree bends. 

    Nice running Tim! I've just the small matter off a 500m on sat now. image 

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    I wish it was 500m. 5000 unfortunately. 

    Solid mileage there Dachs. I think the two 70plus mile weeks I had early July have benefited me. I'm hoping to keep it there in the coming months. 

  • Matt, truly great result, well done! I felt so slow.

    i can certainly feel your pain... Felt pretty much the same and really wanted to quit. There was one guy, must have been up with you who quit and walked back.. Looked inviting! 5000 for you on sat? 3000 for me on Tuesday.. I feel better about that.  At the moment, I can just contemplate a mile or 2!! 

    Got a 10 miler next Saturday... Not sure how that will feel! 

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    I felt as though I was putting so much effort in and not getting much out of it. I'm not looking forward to Saturday at all. Strange really as I appreciate its a really good result but it hurt so bloody much. If I'd have run 16.02 or something I'd have probably pulled out of Saturdays race. Ha. 

    The lad who came bounding past me had a really strange style. He sort of bounded along, one stride to my two and it never changed speed, arms, legs or anything. Turns out he's an under 20 with a 32.20 10k. And unattached! 

    The results have someone down as a v65 finishing just in front of me but I think they've messed a few of the results off. My mate ran 17.24 which he wasn't happy with.  he realised they'd missed him off the results altogether so he was pleased about that.  I think those who used the same numbers as previous races have got confused. 

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    Just popping in...I was marshalling tonight and suspect that the "v65" was Damian from Tim's club as I can't seem him in the results. Unusually there seem to be afew errors, particularly in the women's results.
    I agree that it is not the fastest of courses, although the quality of field does drag lots of people to fast times. And yes, it was warm: I ran at 4 pm and it was at least 32...and I still hadn't cooled down when I was marshalling.

    Think positive thoughts, banish negative ideas and visualize your success
    Ale
  • Yep, that was Damian. Saw him after and that time makes sense. Would have been a v65 record otherwise?!

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    My mate has become Wendy woodhead. image. She's got a shiny new PB. 

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭

    Tim: I'd love to be running that sort of time (plus another 3 minutes or so) when I'm 60, never mind 65!

    Think positive thoughts, banish negative ideas and visualize your success
    Ale
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Stevie see wrote (see)

    10.5 miles Tues, then 7.8 miles yesterday. I brought my rest day forward as I couldn't walk today. The strengthening sessions are all body weight based but really playing hell with my quads and glutes. Must be working though.

    Bus, hope everything is OK. Don't get too disheartened. Just keep trying to tick off the easy miles, that way you won't lose much (if any) fitness.

     

  • Help and guidance needed please image

    Doing a HM tomorrow as part of a tri Half Iron Man with some tri mates plan do do as a hard/tempo training run what pace would you suggest? Should I race it the same a a 10 miler?

    Sorry meant to also say I've not eased down other than a 6.5 last night and a 4/5 miler tonight and I have run for 124 days on the bounce!

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Rob - if you can race a HM as part of a Half Iron Man at 10 mile pace, I would suggest your 10M pace is very soft indeed.

    I'm not sure whether you're saying you're doing the whole swim/bike/run, or are doing the run only as part of a relay.

    If you're doing the run only, I'd do it at marathon pace, which will be a very decent training run indeed.  If you're doing all the rest of the stuff too, I'd guess that MP + 30s -60s is about as much as you'd be able to do without it being a full-on effort.

  • Dachs I didn't mean 10 mile pace I meant not going off too fast and maintaining a strong pace say 5.50-6 min mile pace as I find in a 5 and 10k I go off hard and then settle but when I raced the10 miler last year I ran even 5 mile splits of 28.20!

    No it's a relay and I'm only doing the run, I'm a little bit concerned about looking like a prat if I run too hard whilst most others will have done a 1.9k swim and a 106k bike!!

    Always planned it as hard run not a race.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Rob - in which case, I'd either run it at marathon pace the whole way (I'm guessing that's about 6:00 - 6:05 for you?), or maybe get to 7-8 miles at marathon pace and start cranking it up towards proper half marathon pace to finish strongly.  I'd have thought that would give you the most training bang for your buck.

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