Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Note- I have been told I am running to quick but I always listen to my body and I'm never pushing each time-  I wouldn't say I run threshold pace but maybe I've just been lucky and am over doing it.. I plan to upload a monthly summary this weekend with runs miles and stuff 

  • Scott, it's not just about avoiding injury.  Keeping your slow runs slow enables you to make the (far fewer) ones that are supposed to be fast faster, from which improvement comes.  And enable you to make your runs longer, which builds endurance, which you will need for 3-5K.

    You've clearly got some talent, it'd be a shame to waste it.

    Maybe SG wants to offer one of his lovely training plans?

  • Thanks Dachs, what I'll do then is post the summary as planned and then everyone can see an overview of last few months and see if there's a plan that can be made.. Next few days will be easyish running as I plan to race parkrun Saturday for sub 17 attempt.. 

  • Scott - we can all go out and blast every run. our bodies would allow it, it's physically possible but it's just not smart training and would eventually lead to a breakdown one way or another

    If you want to build an aerobic base, you need to run long and slow.

    If you want to get faster, stronger and more powerful then you need to run anaerobically - that's much faster than threshold pace. 

    If you want to build speed endurance, you work at threshold.

    I don't see any structure that is going to help you acheive your goals in the long term. if you're buildilng mileage and only running everywhere at the same pace (which is too fast) you're just going to burn out. 

    get some structure and you could build on the talent you've got.

    x-post with Dachs. I thnk we're coming from the same place. Train SMART

  • I hope Johnas is just capitalising SMART in order to emphasise it, and isn't referring to that terrible business-speak acronym.  Otherwise, very much agreed,

  • Dachs wrote (see)

    I hope Johnas is just capitalising SMART in order to emphasise it, and isn't referring to that terrible business-speak acronym.  Otherwise, very much agreed,

    yeah, sorry. Wasn't implying business speak BS. I meant using your noggin to make sure every run has a purpose. 

  • Yeah, ok I see. Thanks. I forgot to add Tuesday and Thursday I will be running with southampton athletic club doing speedwork/ intervals hills etc- so I will be planning around this - my other days will be longer slower etc.. My spreadsheet has Tuesday Thursday Saturdays highlighted red which will be hard days and then I will start planning a long run in starting with 50 mins and adding 5 mins each week or every other week.. Upto to say 70 I'm not sure- steady running IN between.. I will use my bike more to commute so I can then run properly instead of "having" to run to work ..

  • Scott, as entertaining as the 2.26 or 5.13mile updates have been day by day, I think you're now ready for your own training thread...

    time to spread your wings and get some bespoke advice....

  • image

    For what its worth, I agree with all that has been said Scott....

    Anyway, sociable but hard lucnhtime run with the man SG himself today. I did a 2.5M warm up before we hared round together for 6 miles with strides thrown in for good measure. It felt very quick, and tough, and left me shattered (though Mr G was hardly out of breath image) .The extra 1.5M back to the car after was almost a crawl!! Not sure why it felt so tough, as although some of the splits were fast, they weren't crazy and certainly slower than last weeks 10M tempo. Guess the big hill, short off-road section and constant nattering were whqt tipped the balance (that and a fair amount of residual tiredness in the legs from Sunday's race I suppose!). 

  • Thank you guys 

  • The Bus wrote (see)

    Guess the big hill, short off-road section and constant nattering were whqt tipped the balance  

    But surely SG's constant nattering won't have made you out of breath, Bus?

  • It's the pretending to listen that wore me out Lit image

    (and I can also talk the hind leg of a donkey!)

  • scott - without wishing to go over it all again if you get fast race times it will be inspite of your training and not because of it.  you are training like a local league footballer who has a race coming up.  everything fastish, no light and shade.  I could go out and run all my mileage sub 6 and whilst i would see some improvement off that it initially it isnt sustainable and i would break down.   i have been told plenty of times in the early days by people on this thread that i was doing my reps too fast (they were right) but i was also doing lots of slow miles to compensate.

    you clearly have ability but its not being applied right yet. image  

  • Im going to work on a schedule for the weekend and start doing longer slower stuff. Thank you guys! 

  • scott - just seen a bit of your history on the other thread and ex hockey players on this thread tend to do alright mate image

     

  • Thanksimage! I played iow first team with some very decent players.. Played county 1 season and strangely enough my brother played same time too - he was goalie - he was much better though image .. Ended up giving it up to focus on other stuff and  that it cost £15 per match subs! I hope to have my own training thread starting up soon- maybe even tonight when I'm in from work- day off tomorrow so can have an extra hour on the computer without worrying image 

  • DeanR7 wrote (see)

     I could go out and run all my mileage sub 6 and whilst i would see some improvement off that it initially it isnt sustainable and i would break down.

    Numbers don't help as we are all different. Sub 6 for elite is easy, sub 6 for casual is impossible. I was listening to marathontalk the other day and they interviewed Paul Pollock. His coach had him doing a gentle 10 miles followed by a hard 10 miles so he got used to working hard in the second half of a marathon. Turns out gentle is faster than all our 10 mile PBs and hard starts when you get close to 50 minutes. It is odd hearing him talk about 1:48 for 20 in training and I was thinking if I got to 20 in 1:48 it would be a cruise home but he has a PB of 2:16 so that is 28 minutes for the last 10k so he has to race well inside 1:48 for 20 within a marathon.

  • Yeah but now you're just talking Pollock's image

  • Me and Bus cruised past a couple of scofflaws at sub 6 pace today and it was pretty easy.

    Ok it was down a steep hill, but still.

    ps Phil, where did you have this pic taken? You look quite glammed up.

     

    /members/images/104999/Gallery/Phil_RW.jpg

     

  • WTF is a scofflaw? Is it High Wycombe slang? Are you lot developing your own language hemmed in in that funny valley of yours?

  • It is SG's special idiolect.

  • Track Tuesday for me.  6*1 mile reps target 5.13 with 4 min recoveries.  They came out 5.13, 5,13, 5.12, 5.13, 5.13, 5.06.   Mentally was tough going but as you can see I took the brakes off on the last lap of the last rep and it felt good even though it wasn't a smart thing to do image

  • Dachs wrote (see)

    WTF is a scofflaw? Is it High Wycombe slang? Are you lot developing your own language hemmed in in that funny valley of yours?

    I dunno! Only lived here for 12 years so still an in-comer and haven't learnt the lingo image

    Blimey Dean!!!

  • Nice work Dean!

    As an example of the kind of well thought out training we are advising Scott to do, I did the last 4.5 miles of my 11 today at slightly faster than MP, because when i popped home in the middle to drop my rucksack off, my wife told me she was putting on the potatoes, so I had half an hour to finish.

  • Dachs wrote (see)

    WTF is a scofflaw? Is it High Wycombe slang? Are you lot developing your own language hemmed in in that funny valley of yours?

    I'm surprised so many borderline intelligent people have to ask this!

    It's erm....someone who...scoffs, at the law!

    scoff·law   /??skôf??lô/   Noun A person who flouts the law, esp. by failing to comply with a law that is difficult to enforce effectively.
  • Borderline ... charming!

    I see.  I thought it might have been something invented by Dr Seuss, maybe a creature that lives in a truffula tree.

  • I'm looking at that session now Dachs looks good and nice running from you dean.. I am going to start working on my training plan and stuff now - I have an old diary when I was running in 2007 with some tasty sessions on there..and I did write out some custom sessions a month or so ago that I wanted to try and do but never did... I will be improving my training as I will have proper sessions with soton AC hopefully twice a week...

  • There it is - today's new thing, one of those that we're supposed to learn every day! Scofflaw - brilliant! The way I had to dodge those tiny apples, that bloke with the big coat and that van all together by scoffing at the law was a perfect example...

    Dachs - even Lydiard's training rules have a section about the need for increased pace when there is spuddage waiting, as outline is his seminal work "Distance Training for Potato Eaters"

  • Hi guys..Started my thread with my training

    Gonna post some sessions here which I did back in 2007/2008.. Can anyone shed some light on them? Are they suitable etc..

    I am on the IOW tomorrow and realised I can actually do a track session instead of my typcial work runs (day off anyway) so I will post my session later tomorrow night at some point ..I do not know what I will be doing.. Theres probably going to be at least 3 top top athletes there that I ran with long time ago and sometimes talk to..Jack grundy (triathlete) Wade brothers and Harrison Curling.. 

     

    But here are some things I used to do - my coach had a spreadsheet typed out and I still have the copy in a folder with some nice photos..

    Days 1,2,3 Hard sessions - not back to back

    1) Threshold on grass - 5 x 6 minutes (60 second recovery)

    OR

    2 x 10 minutes (2 min recov) + 4 x 3 minutes (1 min recovery) 

    2) 8k volume - 5 x 4 minutes (2.5 reoovery) + 5 x 2 min recovery (90 sec rec)

    OR

    6 x 3 minutes (2 minutes recovery) + 8 x 90 seconds (1 minute recovery) - Coaches notes are this is quickest session of the week

    3) Hills 6 x 3 minutes (90 recovery) los altos park-IOW-was a tough steep hill loop

    Day 4 - long run slow/easy - 50 minutes building upto 75 - this program was December 2007-He wanted me upo 75 minutes end of January

    5 + 6) steady running

    7 ) rest

     

    Thoughts?

  • The main thing is, did it work? did the program take you from a position of 'obviously' being a worse runner to a position where you were obviously better.

    Many coaches are concentrating their efforts on this 'fine detail', 'precision' session type of thing when really the reasons their athletes are apparently underforming are far more basic.

    Most of it's down to 'power to weight ratio', endurance, strength, power. If there's a weakness somewhere, eradicate it. The methods are endless.

    My suspicion is that the majority of track sessions devised by coaches have more to do with keeping the troops entertained than anything else. 

    Best laid plans and all that, it only takes one poor recovery or a bad day at the office for the 'running fine print' to get thrown out the window.

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