Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Top jogging Rob! Back at the sharp end where you belong! image

    Did my long run 15.25 miles average on 7:24 min/miles. Legs weren't keen on the last 3 miles to be honest!

    SG - I automatically assume your long runs have been the usual 14-15 fair. I think in my no internet time in the wilderness I've missed what's been going on. I see in RW this month is advocates the kind of tempo running you do. Where you go hard and then recover at MP pace to really teach the body to cope with removing lactate.

    Any Northerners doing the XC relays in Sheffield on Saturday? I'll be there.

  • Stevie, you're judging me on my top level, not today's pale version of that! Thanks though!

    Jan to May was top notch, best I've run.

    Then after that a pelvis niggle hijacked things slightly, if not in mileage, in progression. Some decent 3ks and relays were thrown in.

    Victory 5 showed that proper training was needed, without any special race plan as such. So that's where I am for a bit. Can't say i'm missing having a race to train for!

  • Well done RobT! And very well done Tim: having worked in Macc for a number of years I know parts of the course too well to ever consider running a half on them there hills!

    And some nice long runs being banked.

    Think positive thoughts, banish negative ideas and visualize your success
    Ale
  • Rob, back in form and flying.  Congrats

    tim, having raced the macc half I can testify how hard that course is if you attack it.  2nd is an excellent position and I think that course is maybe 60 to 90 secs slow due to the hills so definitely not a PB course.

    12m lsr for me today and struggled with it, managed 7.25 ave.  I'm finding endurance runs a problem at the moment but its easy enough rectified with just volume in my training.

  • Nice racing RobT and Tim.

    Easy 10km ran off road today. Trying to enjoy as many of the local trails as I can before we move.

    Tuesday's club session is a road 20min fast run followed by 2 mins rest, follwed by another 20 mins run back to the start point. Obviously WU and CD runs at the beginning and end.

    Any suggestions for how I should use this session, rather than just going flat out? End goal is a good HM in Feb.

  •  

    Iron - good news that your patient approach to the achilles means your literally getting back up to speed! I'd just run it as threshold on Tuesday (surprise surprise I hear you all cry!) - good engine building for a half marathon.. 

  • Johnas wrote (see)

     

    Iron - good news that your patient approach to the achilles means your literally getting back up to speed! I'd just run it as threshold on Tuesday (surprise surprise I hear you all cry!) - good engine building for a half marathon.. 

    Thanks. I was thinking something tempo-ish in the back of my mind.
    It's been a long road back. I still get strangely excited about running after my self imposed ban.

  • image

    Good day for the forum I'd say.  Tim - 1:20 is always a good half result, but on that hilly course and for 2nd, with a bunch of vouchers is a great result.

    Rob - quality, just quality. Still an inspiration to us vets!

    Johnas - another really positive session. Hoep the steak and beer were as good!  Iron - tens to agree with johnas for that session. Only variation, might be a 3 x 2M, but that wouldn't fot in with the rests....

  • Great run Tim, I've done Macclesfield before and can vouch for it not being an easy run! I never would have thought a 79 would have got 2nd though! Although the year I did it, it was a Cheshire GP race so that filled it out a bit. Can't sniff at £80 though!

  • The Bus wrote (see)

    Iron - tens to agree with johnas for that session. Only variation, might be a 3 x 2M, but that wouldn't fot in with the rests....

    I did some reading up on 3x2M. Interesting... care to share your thoughts on this (cruise interval?).

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Rob - great stuff, you're really back to where you were nicely.

    Tim - well done on the silverware

    Johnas - seriously, if you're running like that, you're going to smash your 2:42 to pieces.  That's nuts.

    Bus - that still looks a pretty pacy 25 miler, things defiitely looking up. 

    I marked the 3 weeks to Abingdon point with my longest run of the campaign, a 24.  Wasn't really aiming for any pace, just to get round comfortably.  Came out as average 7:06 pace.  I did a  24 3 weeks out from Berlin last year, averaged 7:21 and died a death in the last few miles and threw up in the night.  This time, although starting to tire, I felt strong, enough to push the pace in the last three miles to 6:28, 6:17 and 6:26.  Not marathon pace or anything.  So it bodes reasonably well, particularly since that rounded off a 92 miles week.  Don't think I'll ever see this side of 90 mpw again!

    Now to start tapering...

  • it's all looking up for the marathon trio.

    by reading your training you have confirmed to me that i prefer racing 2 laps of a track rather than 26 miles. 

  • jealous of the tapering Dachs! oh well, only a couple more weeks to go thankfully but a 92 mile week?? Sheesh... if that doesn't put an end to your endurance woes, nothing will!

    iron - to be fair, 3x 2miles isn't that different volume wise to 2x 20mins

  • Nice 10k outing from Dean. Tim, know that second will irk but it is there for the taking next outing, £80 may make it seem not so bad. Good marathon training but I am not convinced: I did an autumn marathon in 1990 and the miles in the heat are a lot harder than the miles in the cold.

  • Ah, Dachs - that answers my question on the Abo forum. Very positive.

  • Race report: Windsor Half marathon
    So this wasn’t on the long term plan but as I have explained before, it is a Datchet Dashers Club Champs event so when a spare number came up a few weeks ago I thought it would be useful to squeeze an extra race in with the chance of a few extra points towards the championship.  I put a few numbers into the calculators and they said 84 so I set a target of 85 minutes (6:28 pace). Preparation was minimal with no specific half training but I knew I could run the distance and I knew I had the pace; it was just a matter of if they both held up or if one or the other failed under pressure.
    In the day or so before plans started to form. Having a quick look at po10 showed that 12 Dashers were faster than 85 in 2013 but slowly it appeared that all 12 were not running. A few pointed postings on facebook showed that in fact only 3 of the fast boys were up and that left me as a candidate for 4th home and the team prize (which is presented at a swank do later) was for first 4. The plan was hatched therefore to get round with a solid time and not take any risks and hope that the enough fast shirts appeared to win the prize but not too many to bump me out.
    The website was advertising traffic chaos so I parked a mile away and walked to the start. Met up with the defending champs and go the low down on the course.  The profile showed an uphill start for about 2 miles, then 9 miles undulating over 2 laps (one short and one long) and 2 back down at the end, but he started counting 5, 6, 7, 8 uphill sections so it sounded a bit harder than first appeared. Starting pens started to fill and we took position at the front of pen 2 (sub 90) behind a handful of sub 75 hares. Quick check showed three fast boys in place and happy but then another appeared who had run 82 at Maidenhead a few weeks ago. Quick chat and the gun went off: hares disappeared and I tucked in behind a few wind breaks to see how things panned out. First mile straight on the Long Drive to the Copper Horse, 6:26 so nice pace with the rise. Miles 2 and 3 (6:18 flat and 6:12 downhill) sorting out places and starting to form a nice looking group. Probably 15 or so runners ahead by now, first two Datchet out of sight but 3 and 4 100 and 200 metres ahead. 3 to 4 was a nasty uphill and cutback and the 4 to 5 downhill (6:26, 6:16). The weather was hot and at the second water station I poured two cups of water over my head and had a sip to drink and immediately felt cooler and more in control. I was now in the middle of a group of 5 and was able to relax and ride the bus. Miles 6 and 7 (6:24 and 6:17) in the bus and ahead there was a Dasher coming back slowly to the bus. At first I thought it was just the hills making distances look odd but, no, he really was coming back. We caught up with him at 7 and I moved onto his shoulder and asked him how he was feeling and he said he was great but hating the hills. The bus kept on moving and he tucked in with us, seemingly getting a second breath. Mile 8 was flat or gently downhill and with the wind behind us and across the polo lawns in bright sunshine. I was pulling on all my years’ race experience: even though it was obvious we were going head to head it wasn’t even 8 miles in and I had plenty of course left and had reeled in a big gap so patience was the key and he had already told me he was struggling on hills and I knew that there were plenty of uphill sections which appeared daunting when we set out but were now my saviour. 6:09 for that mile and he even charged by on a steep downhill section but I knew that my only tactic was now to beat one guy. 8 to 8.5 was a steep uphill and he fell back. I dared not look over my shoulder and just kept on pushing and tried to judge where he was from the supporters. 6:33 and 6:36 for miles 9 and 10 with two long uphill sections.

  • 10.5 miles is the top of the course but also where the laps met up so we were mixing with others who were at 4.5 miles.
    My legs were feeling heavy but the distance ticked off and the watch was showing I was slowing but nothing drastic and I was holding place nicely and indeed I was closing in on the third Dasher who was only about 100 m ahead. At about 11.5 miles I had to shout out to a supported to ask where the other Dasher was behind me but he was out of sight so 4th was mine for sure, third was on an option. We reached the top of the Long Drive at 12 miles and turned toward Windsor Castle. 1 mile downhill with supported left and right and I got a freakin stitch! All bets were off, and the plan was just to get home and minimise losses. People started passing me and the downside of forming buses is that when one comes by, you go back by a handful of places.  Adopted the duck pose (thumbs under the rib cage, arms pulled back, tightens the diaphragm and relieves the stitch) and made mile 13 in 6:30 and with the crowd cheering on the third lady the odd.1 at 6:12 pace.
    So, final time 84:48 and 24th overall. Third Dasher was 83:41 and 14th so that stitch potentially cost me about a minute and 10 places.
    Takeaways: I knew I had not done enough long, fast miles for a fast half but it was nice to see what the base was like. The course is a hard one and the weather also was les than ideal so on a flat course on a cool day I guess it was worth 83 or 82 so I need about a couple of minutes. I definitely couldn’t do two o those back to back in 85 which is the plan in April 2014.

  • PMJ - Sub 6 for a Wally Hayward?!!! Now that's seriously taking the pi$$. Not even Ian Sharman managed that in his epic 2010 run when absolutely blitzed the second half, only to miss out by about 90 seconds. He'll be back next year so I'm keen to see if he can convert that 6:01 into a gold medal. He sure has the endurance these days with all the 100 milers he's doing in the States, but I just wonder if he still has the road speed he will need. It takes about 6:05 miling to get a gold on the down run. That may not sound too difficult for an elite but the pain you feel in your quads at the bottom of Fields Hill, when there is still a HM to go has to be felt to be believed. My personal ambition for next year is 6:3x or maybe if I can improve and go injury free for a whole 9 months then 6:2x (that's hours and minutes, not minutes per mile!)

    But there's a lot of running and other PB attempts between now and then. Going to start a track season here soon so that should be fun. Never done 10000m so I'd like to see how I can do there. In the interim I'll just keep watching you guys improve and pop my head in every now and then to say hello.

  • good report Phil, even without the luxury of paragraphs!

    Suspected the course must have been a little tasty as i think i saw Alex and Rob not too pleased with 1:16 and 1:18s!

    And did i read that 5th was £100 prize money?! What hypes the prize up so much, big field?

    And presumably not up there with your Marlow type courses?

    Interesting with your focus on club champs. I'd completed ignored that my lot have one, and I'd have a good chance of 2nd if i put myself out and did one of each type of event, ie parkruns, choice of certain 10ks, club handicaps etc. But truth is Graham will always hoover up 1st, and there's too many events that would compromise the overall racing year.

  • Well done PMJ, nice racing.

    Windsor was my first ever HM years ago. I was gutted to miss 2hrs and will one day beast that course.

     

  • Warren, I just wonderd why you were targeting sub 7 and I knew there was a medal at 7:30 so just looked at the next one up. Monster gaps aren't they, 9 hours, 7.5 hours, 6 hours.

    SG, club champs at Datchet makes sense for me. There are 14 events and you need to do 7. I'd normally do 5 or 6 as they are popular local races so it isn't a lot extra. It is also a good thing while I am sort of in the age range wilderness. I am 80% WAVA on a good day, for a 40 year old that is about 35:30, for me at 48 37:46 and at 50 38:22. Basically I am over 2 minutes down on a 40 year old me but get no allowance for such. I have no aim to win, just place in the top 5 age graded. Last year I also picked up best vet and hope to do so again this year but next will be impossible as a few 39 year olds have just turned 40.

  • Nice entertaining race by the sounds of it Phil, good work.

    Fast 10k Rob, you heading to Leeds Abbey Dash 10k?

    Good result at the XC Stevie and Dean, strong second half of the race is much more enjoyable that dying a death. The longer runs will soon come back to you i'm sure, a bit of an MT race by the sounds of it but executed well.

    Not ran since Saturday unfortunately, the prize came with a drawback, some sort of groin muscle strain. Im going to try a run in the next day or so and see what the deal is. I thought I'd be careful since all the hard work leading to the great east run has already been done.

  • PMJ, missed your race report with x post. Nice going on the tricky course. You're right on the medal gaps. I just wanted a sub 7 as 6:5x sounds better than 7:0x. Plus it earns you huge respect on the local club scene here to have a sub 7 up run on your cv. Going sub 7 on the down run isn't as special so to me the next big target after sub 7 is to break 6:30. 

    Sorry to derail the thread with all the talk about comrades. As you were.

  • That's running for well over twice what I did on Saturday - impressive and scry in equal measure!

    Good race report Philip, and a good soild time for sucha hilly course (what's the total ascent?). You need to pick the handful of races with a V45 catgory! It is a big gap though - what do you reckon Geb's chances of running sub 60;40 for half at 49 will be image

    Seb - hope the strain eases up quick.

    Double xc for me today. Bit odd - i was expecting this morning to be slow and heavy legged after Saturday, but it ws OK, and actualy felt quick until about 5 miles in. Lots of areas where I know its close to pushing too hard though - calves, quads, hamstings etc, so a day off tomorrow with lots of stretching in the evning.

     

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Seb, sorry to hear that, hope it clears.

    Phil, good long report, nice one.  You Datchet people and your club championships, you bloody love it.  It must be a nice trophy to make you all turn out in a great phalanx every time.

    A 9 featuring 6 x 2min fast/1min easy tonight.  Running 5K pace on unlit pavements after dark is pretty hairy.  But a fairly light session generally.

    Whilst in the library at the weekend, picking out books for the kids, I stumbled across Julian Goater's book and got it out to give it a go.  It's very readable, once you get past his man-crush on Dave Bedford, and pretty useful, but then I came across this bit:

    "Speedwork, broadly defined, is any running that's faster than your race pace.  If your 10K time is 45 minutes and you'd like to improve it, you need to do a significant amount of your training at faster than 4:30 per kilometre.  Of course, your speed will vary depending on the sessions you design.  But that means that, for you, a session of 10 times 1K in four minutes with two minutes recovery between each would qualify as speedwork - and that's not sprinting.

    But while that is a useful session, I think that's still too similar to a pace you know you can hold for 10K without stopping at all.  It's much better to do just six repeats, but at 3:30 per kilometre pace.  That's still not sprinting, but it is significantly faster than race pace."

    WTF?!  What 45 minute 10K runner could manage a single 1K rep at 3:30 pace?  That's ridiculous!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Crikey, can't recall ever managing a 6 x 3.30 1k session myself image

  • Dachs - as a 45 minute 10k runner I can say that session wouldn't be possible. If I am doing 6 x 1k on a good day I would hit 4:00. If I am doing 200 intervals I may see 3:30 pace image

  • My trusty copy of FIRST* tells me that a 3:30 1km rep is ideal for an 18:50 5kmer. image

    A 45min 10ker suggests 4:14 for a 1km rep!

    *subject to conjecture about how a book won't tell us how to train, all a study of one, etc.

  • bus, Windsor isn't a great deal of climbing, Garmin says 194m up and 194 m down. The big issue is more the number, the profile looks like a saw-blade with easily over a dozen up-hills. (Just looked at my runs, it has VLM 2012 as 1058 metres of climb, that is tunnels for you). So you run a bit, slow for an uphill and then you need to get going again over the top, and all that upsets the rhythm of the race.

    dachs, I agree with the session being hard but not the pace. One is possible, six not. 10k in 45 equates pretty much to 3:30 or 3:40 for a km, 60% open WAVA. To test the theory, I looked at the Leeds Magic mile and picked out a runner who did about 6:20 for the mile and his 10k PB is 47 minutes. Did it gain, and again, same result.

     

  • 10k PB is 44:15 and I have done a mile time trial in 6:10. On a good day I think I could run 1k in 3:30 - 3:40. I would then lie down at the side of the track for a good ten minutes before staggering off to get changed. I see from other threads bold claims are the new order of the day but if I am honest teh only way I could do 6 at that pace would be on my road bike!!!!

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