Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Recovery pace run at lunch. Thought I'd run with music. Didn't like it one bit. Music packed away after 1km.

  • That sounds great Dean a National vest! Next year for sure if no reserves are called up this time round.



    Good tapering/training all and nice mile in training Dachs. Did you have someone to chase?



    Tapering does suck, Personally I want to run more than ever but have backed off significantly, yet now the niggles appear, hamstring issues for me including a dull ache most of the time. Not looking promising for this weekend.
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    What do you have coming up seb?

  • Phil seems to have a knack of finding bijou lunch time races. Or is it me? Future congrats for 50th parkrun. I think that will take me about 4 years.

    Can't stand tapering (when I last had to do it).

  • Well Dean for some reason I blindly followed my training plan, of course all training plans come to an end and most have a taper. I should not have tapered at all and probably just rolled it onwards. It just happened to coincide with a HM this weekend (Great Eastern) and the Cabbage Patch 10 next weekend. If the hamstring holds up and weather bearable I'll set off at 5:45's and see what happens...
  • Bus, were you actually considering a Thur night tempo, sat park run, and then the Ridgeway race all a week before your marathon!?

    Looks like an interesting October of racing. well from you lot anyway!

    Time was going to be tight today, with Wembley tonight and it looking tricky to get my tempo in at lunch.

    Therefore, I ended up doing a session I've always told myself I would never do in a morning, a tempo.

    After last week's 10miler with 5miles MP, this week was a natural step up to 6m.

    Wasn't quite sure how it'd go at 7am, but in the end it came out very nice indeed.

    Last week's 5 was 5.58 average, the 6 this week was 5.57.

    Started witha  slight incline for a 6.06, then 5.57,5.51,6.01,5.51,5.53.

    By mile 5 i'd hit a bizarre wave of euphoria thinking this is brilliant!

    We're back on track.

  • Great early morning tempo Stevie G image

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    SG - welcome to my world image, due to family i do most of my running at that time and i found tempos very difficult to hit.  i only ever did one where 6m came out as fast as yours and i did a 73 hm a few weeks later.  maybe you are in better form than you think?

  • PhilPubPhilPub ✭✭✭

    That's a good run SG. I think I've managed all of one tempo run in my life before 10am and sluggish would be the best word to describe it.  Very difficult to get going.

    Dean - congrats on the England call-up.  I've been discussing this with one of my fellow speedy old-man club mates for next year. We're gonna have a go at some of the BMAF races I think, with an eye on next year's international XC.  Maybe see you at a race or two!

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    cheers Phil would be good to catch up, although i could do without additional competition im on the fringes as it is image 

  • ta chaps, Dean, you were also doing some super fast reps, and maybe we have a key reason for your unease with tempos now if earlies are your norms! Certainly have to be up for it!

    4mile easy just done and we're ready to see out the rest of today and enjoy some football. Well, watch some at least!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    SG, I'm not that mad! It would only have been parkrun plus shorter tempo last night OR Ridgeway, not all three!

    Nice tempo looks like the form is coming back...

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    So which two is it Bus?

    tempo/ parkrun,

    tempo/ Ridgeway

    parkrun/Ridgeway

    A week before a marathon! nothing compared to what some do. 

    There's a guy in my club who does whatever race is in front of him at any moment in time. And that includes a meaningless Saturday morning event the day before the VLM.

    We're talking of someone with zero sense of consequences. If I mentioned he once thought it a good idea to kick one of a trio of Rottweilers in the middle of nowhere, you'll get the idea.

    Yes, he got nipped.

    Mind you, Steve Brace ran marathons the day after playing rugby.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Right, to clarify image

    Original plan was Ridgeway, no tempo, no parkrun easy week. Dropped folowing sensible comments here!

    Then - fall abck plan was 6 mile tempo Thu plus parkrun tomorrow. Dropped, following horrible weather forecast meaning Rye course not in good condition for a PB attempt.

    So - ended up JUST a tempo last night, but extended. One easy run tonight about 5, and one easy run Sunday about 8 to make 35 for the week...

    All seems remarkably cautious and sensible (for me image)

    Still not sure the original plan wasn't the best though, but as its now forecast to be peeing down all weekend, and Ridgeway could be slippery as hell, I'm glad I decided to err on the side of caution image

    Some people just have better powers of recovey - I used to, but age is catching up!

     

  • Not happy with all this wind and rain. At least it's curbed your tapir induced enthusiasm Bus!

    I dislike morning runs. I understand needs must; my body takes some time to wake up though.

    Met with a coach last night. All very interesting. Nice long run today, leaves Sunday free for recovery image

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Rain after dry conditions will turn the Ridgeway into a skating rink. Rock hard ground with a layer of damp chalk dust on top. Yikes! or spikes.

    Hoping to have a try out this weekend but the rain is a bit off putting, especially on MT courses.

    I really need a 5k on tarmac somewhereimage.

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    tapir! induced.

    /members/images/493151/Gallery/download_1.jpg

     

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Mornings for me. Earlier the better. Wake before 5:00am, 3 mugs of tea and out I go. Speed sessions the lot.

    If it gets to 9:00am and I haven't started, I never will. Can't hack having to negotiate traffic, people & dogs. 

  • Over on the Tri forum the taper is referred to (humerously) as the tapir.

    I obviously meant to spell it correctly in the presence of pure runners, but failed. Honest!

    Great pic Ric.

     

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Ric-Ridgeway will be perfect then, i has about 5k oh tarmac back to the finishimage

    I also like early morning runs,but maybe not as early as Ric!

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Bus, Exactly how dangerous is the Ridgeway Run?

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Eh, why do I fell like I should be making one of those "off-raod running is an inherently hazardous activity and all participants take part at their own risk" type statements  before I say "you'll be fine" image

    There are some downhill sections that are likely to be slippery if its been damp, as they are on chalk, and with the odd tree route etc to watch out for but a bit of sensible care and you'll be fine. Most of the course is pretty straightforward and very runnable and there are plenty of people who seem to manage OK in racing flats, including the winner for the past few years. Personally I've always worn trail shoes to feel more secure on those downhill bits, but on a dry day have been tempted to ward racing flats  the long run in on tarmac would be much faster in road shoes.

    Like most races though, the most severe danger you'll face is the road crossings! (thought TRC are very good at marshalling!)

     

  • Hi all. Clearly some excellent training and racing going on. Congrats to Dean on the selection, and good to see marathon plans are going well for some - even if Bus wants to sabotage his image

    I'm stepping out of the shadows for some guidance on Tempos. This week I did what I think is my first intentional tempo session, 2 x 2 miles with 5 mins recovery at McM's Tempo Interval pace. Due to no recent good races and a pick up in training I had to guess a bit for the calculator but the session was good and felt strong at the end so must be ok.

    So..
    1. What do you refer to as tempo? There seems to be a variety of interpretations on here...
    2. How do you execute them? I dread the thought of going out to do it on the road which seems really hard, so I did it on a treadmill. Guaranteed pace but less external elements.
    3. What should the progression be from 2 x 2 miles? Longer reps, more reps, or shorter recovery

    Thanks!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Morning! Personally I would call 2x2 a long interval session rather than a tempo, but it's borderline. For me, a tempo would be 4 or more miles at a sustained effort somewhere between MP and 10M target pace, depending on what you are working towards. The effort level is proably best described as "comfortably hard", approaching "hardly comfortable" on some of the shorter stuff.

  • I understand tempo running as roughly defined by its pace. The pace at which lactic starts to accumulate in the blood as the body can't clear it as fast as its being produced. By running around this pace you train the body lactate threshold. I tend to think as a guide 1hr race pace is a good starting pace for a straight 20min tempo run, with the appropriate warm up and down.



    There are the variations of this of course. Cruise intervals say 5 x 1 mile or 3 x 2mile with short recoveries so the heart rate doesn't drop too much. Max 2min recoveries. The recoveries just help you out psychologically, you know your getting a break soon!

    SG has inadvertently triggered this discussion by using the term tempo for a long almost MP stint. However, he's correct to call it that. The less used extended tempo.

    If you search hard enough. it is possible to find a spreadsheet with scientific foundations thats shows the variations of tempo pace with longer versions of the 'go-to' 20min tempo. For example SG's extended tempo was roughly 35 mins. The table shows that he should add 9 secs/mile to his true tempo pace and run at that pace for the 35mins.
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    Hi pc2 - I'm not as well read on the subject as others  but my view is if your race is on a treadmill it makes sense to do your tempos on it. Otherwise do them outside.  Of course it's fine to do them occasionally but as you say it's easier indoors.  Pace wise 10m race pace is norm.  i wouldn't have called 2*2m a tempo though, that's an interval for me.  Tempos to me are consistent sessions with no break.

  • PC, where you been. And why do I always think of TC, aka Top Cat as soon as I type PC!

    As per all the fellas really.

    A lot of people say "Tempo" for anything quicker than easy pace I find, which is a bit generous. I've caught runners I know saying it on facebook, even though they're sub 1hr 20 runners, and the actual pace they've run is Steady.

    To me there's 2 uses of the word Tempo. One an actual pace I work to, which is "true tempo" pace (a bit quicker than HMP), and secondly doing a Tempo run. This is classically using MP and HM paces, usually in the base periods. You'd start with the pure MP based sessions, then build in some HMP over a couple of months.

    Then you'd step it up and add some true tempo work, split like you did, as it's a more demanding pace, so you kinda end up with "tempo reps" such as the 2x2miles session you did.

    When I've done that one, and my zones have been fairly fresh I've found that a hard session, although I've used 2min recoveries. However, when I've been nearer a breakthrough I've handled 2x3miles at tempo if I remember right.

    Of course, Threshhold is a bit of a different story, but I think it's only right if Johnas explains that one...

  • And Crispy, I can certainly understand why you say you dread a tempo!

    From the start, when I used to see reps and tempo, I always thought, reps, yeah hard pace but you get a nice rest, but tempo, continuous for so long! Wow. That was no doubt my football background making me more cut out for that stop start nature though.

    I've tried the tempos in various places. On the road covering half the town, round a track, and round a 0.9mile loop.
    Although I did mine on the road yesterday, I find the 0,9mile loop the best mentally for the hard ones.
    Though If I ever start doing Threshold runs like Johnas I think i'd use a track like him, as those must be super hard on the road with distractions

  • Thanks guys. I was going with the McMillan Tempo Intervals:

    Tempo Intervals
    • Further development of your stamina
    • Usually eight to fifteen minutes long with two to five minutes jog between
    • Effort is medium-hard

    Which is essentially the feeling here that this is long interval reps - just no clarity in the use of the word!
    Treadmill was useful to find out if I was fit enough for the pace at the moment in a consistent environment. From that I'll go out next week and either do the intervals again or make it into a proper 20 mins.

    Most importantly I'm just glad to be feeling fit and getting consistent mileage in and now introducing some harder work.

  • SG - As for where I've been, a reasonable track season led to dodgy end of summer. My runbritain does not make pretty viewing for the last few months. Appear to be finally getting over my hammy problems now though. 4th week back to proper training - I realised I hadnt done more than 30ish miles in a week since April, most much less! Not getting into my clubs road relays team was the kick up the backside I needed. image

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