Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Scottish runner - your friend has more than two boyfriends?!

  • Scottishrunner -  we've probably passed each other running around Holyrood Park. Did you go round Arthur's seat twice to make it 10k? There's no way I'd do a tempo run up that hill, the innocent railway is much more forgiving!

  • it would be more unusual if you didnt have excuses round here.

    right....vdot ---- seb, johnas or anyone help me catch up. i plugged in 32.30 for a 10k and it kicked out a load of training times. against intervals it says it should be 5.01 min miles which is 5k pace. so what does jack daniels say is the amount of reps and length of recovery if i run at 5.01 pace?

  • I think you best buy his book Dean as it has 4 pages of 800m specific workouts at the different training times, laid out in a 24 week training plan. He breaks down the training into phases and focuses not just on outright speed but also endurance for an 800m runner.



    Pretty sure you'd find it interesting reading
  • Dachs wrote (see)

    Phil - should I be shit then?

    Sorry missed you off the list, must be subconscious: your marathon PB is the only one I beat you at on po10. Definitely don't have a shit one.

  • come on share the knowledge image. im after 10k training and you guys have done that.  whats a gardan variety standard 10k session where i would use his interval paces?

    unless you chaps dont know and only started to throw around made up words like vdot to impress the new girls image

  • 30 x 200m in 30 minutes, averaging 35 seconds apiece. (200m speed = 10k speed x 91%)

    The runner I knew who could do that ran 32 mins for 10k.

    Or doesn't that fit any known spreadsheets?

  • Haha... The honest answer is that it's too complicated to write in detail here. JD spent 15 years putting together the 1st edition! JD breaks training down into phases so if you want some examples:



    Phase 1 is easy intensity and base building



    Phase 2 is the a move to quality including 2 or 3 quality workouts: 1) repetition workouts with full recoveries (10 to 12x 400m in 69s with 400m jog rec) 2) threshold work (5 to 6x 1 mile @ threshold) 3) intervals (6x 3mins at interval pace with 3 min recoveries)



    Phase 3 focus is on long intervals (3x 1 mile at interval pace with 4 min recs + 3x 1k with 2 min recs) with continued work at threshold (15 mins thresh, 3 min easy, 10 min thresh, 2 min easy, 5 min thresh)



    Final phase is phase 4 and is the high performance phase when toughest days should be races.



    There's lots of examples but it's all structured and far too comprehensive to write here
  • Agree Ric that everyone has their way and if there was one simple spreadsheet or formula for everyone, we'd all be totesamazeballs innit



    Was talking to a coach the other day who was telling me of a Bruce Tulloch special called 123. Basically 100 fast, 100 recovery, 200 fast, 200 recovery, 300 fast. Thing is you only get 100m rec after the 300m. Repeat 3 times
  • Any of the AbbeyDash mob received their numbers yet? I'm presuming the colour of the number is the starting pen you're in. 

    What colours yours? 

  • Phew, I'm in good company. 

    Excuse my ignorance but it looks like I've missed a fair bit. Welcome to the new posters. 

    All the training paces baffle my head (which doesn't take much). I go by the method that my reps need to be as quick or quicker than my goal pace and the less recovery the better. :-/ probably end up in a heap in a few years. 

    Got a 5 miler on Sunday which should blow a few cobwebs off or look like I'm tangled up in one. I'm hurting just thinking about it. 

    Good luck to everyone that's racing and those that are eating and resting. image 

    has Samir raced Scott yet? 

  • My Abbey dash number came through. 348 red. Does that suggest I'm going to run 34:08? Probably.



    Its good luck time for Bus and Dachs! Hope your all good to go. Your both as fit as ever so go for it. Also Johnas and Slinkz at 'dam. Careful where you re-fuel mid run, no cookies! Have fun at CP Phil, not going to make it. Going for the hour I take it!?



    Dean, as Johnas alluded to, phase 3 of the JD schedules is where the quality training sessions are done. But only makes up weeks 13-18 of a 24 week programme, although first six weeks are base training. Long intervals are the primary focus and tempo sessions the secondary. The intervals are up to you. 1000, 1200 or miles with 50-90% of rep time as recovery time.

    My 6 track sessions were, in order. 5 x 1km, 6 x 1km, 5 x 1200, 6 x 1km, 5 x 1200, final session was a pyramid. 1k, 1.2, 1.4, 1.2, 1k. Never made it to 4 x 1miles, too tough. 1600m reps at Vo2 Max pace isn't for the faint hearted, however looks like I will be doing the training programme again with the same interval paces so will nail it next round.

    You may notice I only ever did 6k of quality. 8% of weekly mileage up to 10km max is not meant to be exceeded. Again as total training volume is increased next time sessions will be longer.



    I'm interested to see the outcome of your 10km pace training Dean, at least stick with that till Leeds.



    Sorry Ric but the session you described IS actually very similar to a not a very well publicised but apparently optimum session. Think its a Vo2 Max session. Will try to find it. Possibly 30 secs hard 30 secs easy continuous. A lady did the research, possibly Swedish. And no its not fartlek. My session using that research is 200m in a set time, then 100m in the same time. 2 x 15mins of that.
  • .Seb wrote (see)
    Have fun at CP Phil, not going to make it. Going for the hour I take it!?

    I will start out and give myself a chance at the hour but one day it has to go.

    The WAVA open standard for 10 miles is 44:23 so 80% (which is where I aspire)  is 55:29. 10 miles is not a young man's event so the age factor do not start to creep in until you are 30, and when they do it is gradual at first ...

    30 55:29
    35 56:10
    40 58:09
    45 60:28
    48 61:58
    50 63:00
    55 65:45
    60 68:45

    so somewhere between 40 and 45 you have to better 80% to break the hour, at 50 you need 84%. From 45 to 50, the 80% point moves up by over 2.5 minutes, so more than 30 seconds a year slower!

    So, as I say, I will aim for it but if it is not going to happen I won't bury myself and die but I will try and salvage 80% WAVA which is just inside 62. I went through 10 in 63:40 on the Windsor half  so that is eminently possible.

  • Had a super easy 4 planned for today, so decided to do Woodley parkrun back in the pack. Passed the dad of one of my eldest's friends, and stuck with him to pace him round for sub 23. He just missed it in the end. Unusual experience! Didn't cross the line obviously, one has to think of the Po10 record. Then added another easy mile with a couple of MP strides. 

    Nerves are building...

  • Just about to go out and do a couple of easy miles to loosen the legs up. Already got most stuff ready before the party mayhem begins including pinning the number on my vest! 

    What time are you aiming to get there Dachs?

    Interesting re the 80% WAVA for 10 miles Philip. Must be a big leap from 44-45 as my 58:44 at age 44.3 (!) got me 81.9% WAVA

     

  • And playing with the calculator, I'd have to do a 2:43 tomorrow to get that again image


  • Bus 7:30 to 8. Are you planning on doing anything to warm up? P&D recommend 2 runs of 5 mins each, with the last one ending at 30 secs of MP, so i may do that.

  • bus, 81.9% WAVA is good but at 44 you are yet to start on the steep dowhill bit: when I did 59:26 at Cabbage Patch in 2011 I hit 82%. The same tomorrow would be 60:25 so 30 seconds a year loss.

    I am told that a good performance for marathon is to keep the decline to a minute a year after you peak. Challenge for me at VLM will be to see if I can improve or have to start watchign the decline.

  • That's pretty depressing Philip-no wonder it feels like I'm working twice as hard just to stay still!

    Dachs -I'm aiming to get there a similar time. I'll also do a short, easy warm up to get these ancient legs moving. That P&D one sounds ideal, short enough not to use up too much energy, but long enough to work.

     

  • Just landed in the Dam. Just in case I don't get the chance again for free wifi, best of luck Bus & Dachs! You've put the hard work in - just stick to your game plans and don't be shit. image



    Good luck too to Ric, PMJ and anyone else racing this weekend.
  • Thanks Johnas. (Nasty feeling I might be shit though!) Good luck yourself.....

  • Good luck Johnas. Save something for Frankfurt.

    Bus do you want to meet somewhere? 8 or 8:15 ish? Not sure where there is to meet though.

  • good luck to our handsome heroes tomorrow. 3 big races.

    I'll be thinking of you all as I trot out a morning 14.

  • Back from the Chiltern league. Gambled on lightweight racing flats.

    And lost!

    Well obviously I lost; as in, no chance of seeing the front of the field after 2 seconds, but after all the talk of 'not suitable for spikes', on balance I'd have worn some with 12mm points.

    Started off ok and was surprised to be keeping level with the pre race favourite (V50 that is, everyone else can sod off, and did) however the first descent into mud soon had me sliding about; it was a shame it rained just before the start. And a shame I’d forgotten about the hoards that had already been down that hill.

    So he was gone, but only gradually. Using the splits from the Garmin, first mile of 6:04.

    On to some firmer ground, but only briefly. The word skid-dadle comes to mind. Quite annoying running on the spot, the Garmin trace showed much in the seven’s. Once in a while I got some grip and made the most of it. 2nd mile of 6;23 and a 3rd of 6:37. It’s a 2 lapper involving the 2nd and 3rd mile so had the pleasure of having a second course of the mud that slowed me the first time around.

    The work I’ve been doing on getting ‘up on my toes’ seems to have paid off. The trace showed at times I was going sub 5 minute miling, and where I did I had no trouble going past other runners.

    A brief hold up on the second lap where I stopped to check on a lad who was on the ground apparently unconscious.  That cost me a few seconds; he wasn’t dead and there was a chance I could be in the points, so left him there. He was Milton Keynes so no matter. (I’m joking here. I really did stop and check with the two people with him. I knew one of them and she assured me all was in hand.)

    So having the opportunity to overtake the runners again that had had the audacity to go past while I was dealing with more important matters, I took it. I didn’t sense much resistance when I did.

    Had the feeling I was moving well and continued to overhaul other runners when ever grip allowed. Garmin revealed miles of 6:38, 6:27, 6:06. The last section was sub six which considering the lack of grip I found almost unbelievable. I wasn’t particularly tired when I finished.

    Cross country then. The jury is out.

  • The Tulips here are average at best.

    Phil - 'Don't be shit' My new mantra.

    Bus/Dachs - Good luck in Abingdon.

    Stevie & everyone else.. Enjoy the miles/rest whichever applies.

  • Nice one Ric. Though surely just shouting "man down marshall" as you steam past would have served your duty image

    That or the classic "shout if you need help son"

  • Nicely raced (ice skated?) Ric, and a good report. 

    Dachs - from what I can remember, the only place really to meet is on the track, as that was where everyone was warming up when I did it last. I'll look out for your RR vest. Might be nearer 8:30 though, after dropping off the bag, toilet stop etc

    Feeling completely stuffed now after: porridge and bagels for breakfast, another bagel and banana for a snack mid morning, jacket potatoes for lunch, toast for an afternoon snack, then fruit, then chocolate, then some chips (party food!) and then a MASSIVE plate of pasta and meatballs for tea. Almost time for bed...

    At least "don't be shit" is a more sensible British mantra, and a darn sight easier to say in the dying stages of a marathon than the former "relentless positivity" nonsense image

  • Evening all. Just remembered tomorrow is race day for many of you. Smash it! Good luck! 

  • SG, ever since I was a kid and ran past ignoring another on the ground having a near fatal asthma attack, I've stopped. I kept going that day because I wanted a result. I got one, but felt cheap. Some things haunt you. That's one of my ghosts.

    So in those situations I always stop. 

    Good luck with the marathon tommorow Bus & Dachs. I'm sure you won't be shit. Though with the amount of carbo loading going on, shit will be involved.

    I always wear a peaked cap in the rain. keeps the water out of the eyes and the head warm.

    Did I mention rain? I haven't checked the forecast lately, I'm not sure it will.

    Just checked. It'll miss Oxford during the raceimage

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