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Nikkii, on top of the sensible periodisation stuff above, there is also the basic fact of recovery-when in any of that does your body get a chance to adapt and muscles repair themselves? Unless you are an elite, 4 doubles is insane! The first thing I would do with that schedule is do a longer run on the Sunday, but cut out the second run, on Saturday I would swap to just ond easy sessin and do the long MP sessin mid week instead of one of the other speed sessions. Do you do stretching or pilates type stuff at all?
Thanks Seb, it was a blessed relief for her at the end. Funeral on Friday.
On the subject of feet, which includes ankles I guess, many moons ago I twisted my ankle on a XC relay held on a Saturday. Ankle swelled up and I could hardly walk, and I had the Cabbage Patch the following day. My mother said, "you should put ice on that", and fetched a bag of peas. Worked a treat and the next day broke the hour for 10 miles for the first time. Thanks mum.
Set back today though. Easy jog three days ago was ok, so a repeat of the same today should in theory be safe. Not so. After only two of the three miles I felt a split second feeling like someone had given the area a tap with their finger tip. It didn't hurt but very quickly the ankle became sore.
Not quite limping, I suspect ligament damage. Anything up to 18 months to sort out, the last one took a year.
Seb, Mike Gratton had a dump truck drive over his foot and shatter it. He still managed to win the London Marathon. Can't semasoids be removed by surgery?
Ric, 18months for ligament damage would be monumental damage!
I snapped ankle ligaments in 2004, and couldn't play footy for 3months, but was back shuffling some jogs out 5/6 weeks in.
And that was can not walk at all for a week seriousness....ankle the size of my head.
The Bus wrote (see)
Unless you are an elite, 4 doubles is insane!
Unless you are an elite, 4 doubles is insane!
wouldn't go quite that far son!! Way less taxing to split in doubles if you're doing bigger mileage!
An easy option of a midweek 7 miles turned into a 3 mile walk. Just couldn't be arsed. This last 3 weeks at work have finally beaten me, a poor run at Leeds and general tiredness have left me with noting left. Physically and mentally. Not great timing since it's boot camp time on Friday. I'm going to bed now and hopefully a good nights sleep will help. I currently don't want to run again if I have to run down a bypass in the dark again. Never mind 26 miles.
Ric, sorry for your loss mate. Hope everything is ok on Friday.
SG, nice XC outing on the weekend. Always throws up a few surprises when you look at the results in detail.
Seb, relax until a doctor has diagnosed what's wrong!
Sorry Seb, missed your worrying post, is this the plantar again? Like See-man says, wary on the self diagnosis...we all do that...I was looking up stress fractures this week when in reality it's "I can slightly feel something in the foot but could race and do hard sessions through it" Fret not yet.
Stevie, almost Christmas, and a good couple of weeks off, or at least not "In". Hold on til then son.
SG, I'll have to admit, I haven't much appetite for training through injuries. I run more because I like running rather than for competitive reasons. But only if that running is pain free.
Seb, that sucks, particularly now we're at the time of year you come into your own. Don't assume the season's a write off yet though.
Bus, to be fair I double 4 or 5 times a week, and am far from elite. It's necessity though as I run to and from work. I usually double on a session day, but see little ppint in doing it on a long run day - just make the run longer, you'll get far more benefit.
Anyway, track tonight, 4 x 2000. 6:41 average. Not the fastest, but at least I completed the session. Well, kind of.The session was supposed to be 3 x 2000 @ 5k pace and then 1x 2000 15 seconds faster than 5k pace, all off 90 seconds recovery, which i am pretty sure is not actually possible
All very cheerful on here tonight!
Seb – like others have said, wait until the xray before getting too despondent – self diagnosis is very dangerous and often makes us think the worst of what turn out to be fairly innocuous injuries. I hope this is true of yours mate!
Dachs/SG – I agree about doubles. On their own, not necessarily insane to do so many, but a 10 mile tempo plus second run, with a long run plus second run the day after??? What purpose is that second run serving except to aggravate recovery (and possibly burn a little fat)?
Ric – having lost my mum in what sounds like very similar circumstances recently I really feel for you. On one level, knowing it was a blessed relief for her in the end and what she wanted, was a comfort, but it didn’t make it that much easier to take nonetheless. It felt like the loss of some universal constant as she had always been there for us, even if only in the background in later years. Her death has left a gaping hole in our family that can’t be filled by anything except time. I hope it all goes well on Friday and that everything that you need to get done afterwards is as simple as can be.
Bus, I think Nikki's starting to realise the schedule she's got might need a slight tweak when more and more of the peeps on here are saying it as it's not like this thread is exactly populated by casuals!
Thanks Bus. My mum lived less than a mile away so I dropped by a fair bit, especially as my work involved many of her nearest neighbours. That change of routine along with the weekend 'paper round' will take some adjusting to.
One bit of good news is that the ankle has improved beyond all expectations. Can hardly feel anything now. Yesterday's twinge must have been something un-sticking itself. Good. I'll take another two days off.
18 for me today. Since VLM 2012 I have done one 19 miler in June 2012 and nothing else much over 15. I would have liked to build up a bit more gently but November started with a 15.5 and has crept by without bettering that so I needed to realign else I will not get a 20 this side of the New Year.
The route was very nice, out to Richmond Park and through the park, then through Ham which is a really pretty village and onto the Thames at Teddignton Lock, then 10 miles downstream on the tow path back to Hammersmith. I found the last few miles a bit hard and the pace for the last mile was 8:49 but I think that was more mental than physical. Overall 18.05 in 2:20 for average 7:48 which is MP +20% which is a reasonable pace for this time of year.
That brought November up to 198.3 miles so 200 will be met and that leaves 146 miles to clear 2000 for the year.
Ric - glad the ankle is on the mend. that will at least allow you to have some time out running by yourself.
Philip - sounds like a very nice route that. Good to get the first 'proper' long run of the campaign under your belt.
I did 26 miles at lunchtime - unfortunately it was on the bike . Still, a pleasant enough ride and good to be able to at least do something to try and maintain fitness. I'm getting desperate to try and run, but I am definitely going to wait until at least Sunday. Might try some very easy stretching of the area tonight.
Bus, I had such a time out from running around 2004/2005 due to some injury, I took to cycling in a big way. You should do a time trial. I only did three but they were unlike any running event. Pure eyeballs out effort but not even the hint that you could hurt yourself.
Haven't been out on the bike since an episode of 'Transient Global Amnesia'. The ultimate WTF moment I can say.
Imagine that one second you're at home watching the football and then in the blink of an eye you find yourself ten miles from home standing alongside your bike. You don't know how you got there or that you even planned to go out on the bike at all.
In my case I phoned home to check. Couldn't remember cycling home that day but six months later I did. Once home I spent a few hours forgetting everything as soon as it happened, as if it never happened at all. All ok by the evening.
But that was the cycling finished.
An email in from the University of Sheffield has just made my lad an offer. Just wondered if it was from the University of Sicily it would be an offer he couldn't refuse.
I've had nights like that Ric, but never a bike ride. Sounds quite scary. Hope tomorrow is what you want and need it to be.
I second the recommendation for a time-trial. There is nothing quite like it, not a 10km or even a fast hard track rep. Imagine 20something minutes of nothing but hurt and sweat pouring of your nose knowing that you are so close to the edge you could explode or fall off your bike. Seeing the clock tick down and then giving it the final push before crossing the line.
That's a 10mile TT.
Good early season long run Phil. Nice reps Dachs.
Yesterday morning I did 2x1200 & 4x800 off a 2min RI. 1200s were hard 4:24 & 4:34 vs 4:27 target and the 800s never ending (2:55, 2:55, 2:56 & 2:58 vs 2:54). Unkeen on morning track sessions. I guess the workload is also higher than a club session where it is a bit tame. I seem to be able to bang out 23s 400s and multiples thereof but 22s or 21s is a big ask. Maybe I need Nikki's ability to handle volume
Ha Bus, I just read 26 miles at lunch Cycling, I see, slightly different. Still a good effort though!
Nice reps Iron.
I have been reviewing and reading and thinking and trying to incorporate ideas/take on advice. I'm going to try and reduce my mileage, and maybe take up another "hobbie" to burn the calories. Some sort of fitness class perhaps... could probably do with some strength!
Can't remember my last post but yesterday was 8m v easy and no double, and today (small steps, small steps!) was only 8m (instead of the usual 10m!!) with 6k on the track.. 3 x 800m/200m jr/300m/300m jr (800s at 2:56, 2:57; 2:59 and 300s at 61s) then 4 x 200m off 200m jr (39s). 13h of work and no dinner = shite session today.
Cutting back on the mileage tomorrow and Saturday and will only be easy pace.. so it will be much closer to a 50s week than a 60miler!
Hey what happened to Nikki? The body snatchers have taken over! Almost getting sensible there not so sure about today's session off no food and along work day (remember, those elites have got bugger all else to do but train )
Iron - rough old session that for the morning!
Ric - wtf?! that sounds really scary! I've had a few drunken evenings where that has happened, but that is on another level. No wonder you now stick to the static bike! Well done to your lad - less in-house physio on tap though I guess . I've done a few MTB races back in the day, but TTs always strike me as a bit odd - always on some desolate dual carriageway at a go awful hour of the day!!
All the best for tomorrow.
Echo Bus, Ric. Hope all goes well.
Nikki, gently strip It back, pick a proper goal, and work to that goal. Lovely.
Why would you need another hobby to replace that handful of miles you'd be taking out? If you're doing 50miles a week you don't need any other calorie burning!
Nikki - I sent you a DM with some interesting reading attached. Not sure if the email system is working though and you received it?
SG - As Nikki admits, her need to train stems from an anxiety of putting on weight and/or losing fitness. This is what is driving her. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with substituting a couple of those running sessions a week with a core/strength session instead. In fact, I think those core sessions would probably be more beneficial to her long term running than the current mileage will, as the current mileage is just a short cut to overtraining IMO
Best wishes for today Ric.
that sounds an unhealthy driving point then Johnas. One that could lead to ignoring warning signs to ease off.
Anyway, a break from abusing Nikki for a while, and some running to report on.
When I see my weekly schedule, I normally look at the long tempo and think, oooh tasty, and look at the reps and think, i'll have some of that.
Today was one of those sessions I like, low-ish overall mileage but some tidy pace aims.
A good old fashioned pyramid, for what must be the first tie in 5 years or so, back in the days i'd do the first one epicly fast, and the last one at basically dribble pace.
So distances, pace aim, and actual as below
200 1500 35s400 3k 1.20800 5k 2.401200 10k 4.04800 5k 2.42400 3k 1.14200 1500 33s
After a bang on first 200, got locked on 5k pace, meaning the first 400 was a bit underpar, and the 1200 was a little too quick. However still a good run around, and ended pretty well.
I'd say weight loss and fitness is a driver and motivation for '000s of runners. Not unusual at all!
Nice pyramid session. Always nice when you have a mixed pace session and you finish strongly!
Johnas - just replied to your DM.
Nice reps SG! How'd you find the pyramid psychologically?
I know Stevie G doesn't like random training posts from irregular contributers but I had to share last nights session
2 mile Warm up and 2 mile Warm down sandwiched with 7 mile fartlek 1 min on/ 1min off, average paces of 1 min on 5.05-5.15 and off 6.00-6.10 covered the 7 miles in 39.51 ave pace 5.41, this was on a mild undulating route
I'm 49 on Tuesday so roll on 2014 life in the old fart yet!
Nice fartlek there Rob, was it solo or in a group? I used to do fartlek on Worthing prom with a group and on a windy night you just tucked in behind the fast guys and get carried along. If you didn't tuck in then it was out on your own after the first few reps and a long trudge of a night.
Phil 3 to start but down to 2 of us after 25 mins then on own last 10!! lost 13 secs to a 31.29 guy in last 10 mins!!
Rob, I thought we'd hugged and settled that you're free to post what you like when you like old son (though not pointing out any of my foibles please )
Sounds an immense session. Never seen anything quite like that. 1min segments for 7miles? Wow, must be a mental battle. Or is it the opposite? Looks along the lines of 3k pace for the On, and MP for the off? Pretty good work there.
And there was me about to answer Nikki saying I found today's session quite mentally nice compared to the 7m MP session on Tuesday.
But yes, with pyramids, the worst point is always when you're near the peak of the distances, perhaps end of the 800, facing the 1200 next, and then on the way down it's a joy.
i vaguely recall doing a longer one of these years back, perhaps with a pair of 600s thrown in, and maybe even a 1600 too? But like i said earlier, those sessions were all a bit poor as there was no idea on pace, and crumbled massively near the end!
I was ready to jack in after 2 miles thought I was runnings shit but then checked time and thought this is ok keep going "old man" the amazing thing was the 1 min off felt like a recovery bizarre really when a little over 6 min pace we went through 10k in bang on 35 mins!
rob, at the risk of sounding like I'm coming on to you, you don't look anywhere near 49 in your photo! Mind you, you don't run like a 49 year old either! It does give me some inspiration though, as I have 4 years to try and catch up with you
SG - nice pyramid session. That's the sort of thing I should try and do for variety when doing intervals rather than the standard half-mile reps!