Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • You all know I love numbers and stats but even though I have the Garmin 305 (which is the 205 plus heart rate monitor) all I ever use it for is recording time, pace and distance. I like the ability to programme a route into it so I can plan an 18 mile run in a strange city and end up running 18 miles and not have to lap the block to pad a run.

    What does the heart rate stuff do for anyone? I see some people train using heart rate zones but there are so  many variables that come into heart rate, I don't see how this can be any more accurate than going by feel. I have come to work and had a double expresso and my heart rate is now faster than when I was in bed a few hours ago. If I went for a run now how do I adjust for this?

  • Matt where are you working on the wirral? not that far from me maybe you could bring you're running kit and we could meet for a run?

  • It wasn't as bad as first feared, an easy 4 at 7.28 pace. I only do doubles on the days when not doing sessions so all at a nice easy pace. 

    Phil, I was toying with the idea of getting the HRM with it but I'm not sure I'd use it enough. 

    RobT, I'm in bromborough at the minute on a site but due to start about a months work at Capenhurst uranium plant in the next day or so. Unfortunately only getting half hour for dinner and working on a building site It makes a dinner time run near impossible. 

  • im exactly of the same opinion as Philip.  my 220 was a present but i had the option of any watch and looked at the 620.  but i rarely wear the HRM, and you need to do so to get all the additional features like v02, amount of time you are in contact with the ground, vertical movement, estimated recovery etc...  its all very well having all this extra data but if you dont use it it doesnt turn into information or mean anything.  An example on the 220 it calculates my cadence.  so there i am sitting on the minibus on the way home from the race thinking what does 179 ave mean.  and what will i do to make it better or worse or will i do nothing with it.  however the watch is really light and much better screen and user interface that it was defn worth the new watch.

  • I use HR during my tempo runs. I quite like getting the feedback i.e. sometimes when I'm thinking 'this is really hard', I like to check my HR to tell me that yes.. it is hard! it's supposed to be, and it's not just feeling hard because I'm mentally weakimage

    Matt.. 70+ weeks. Well done. Take it easy... and that's coming from meimage

    6.4m easy for me this morning. Very enjoyable!

  • the most efficient cadence for running is av 180, so i'd say that you're employing a pretty efficient running style Deano. Could be better but not by much!

     

  • i've been using my HR monitor recently purely to ensure I'm working hard enough on the eliptical machine. Seems to be doing the job and reasonably accurate too - I seem to naturally be in the right zones for the training I'm doing (i.e. zone 1 for easy runs, zone 3 for threshold etc)

  • I agree with Phil and Dean on the Heart Monitor subject. They measure your HR that's all. 

    I bought one in 1990 and discovered 7:30 miling was in the 160's, a brisk but oxygen debt free run would be in the 180's and racing in the 190's.

    Knackered leg muscles would reduce the numbers. 

    Now 7:30 miling would be in the 130's, racing would be in the 160's, maxing out at 173bpm.

    The numbers mean nothing since you can have the same rate feeling tired or not. Hot, cold, hydrated or not, eaten or not and so on.

    Training zones based on pace are better since most variables can be controlled or adjusted for.

    Having said that, there's enough runners who run 'to feel' during their zone training, look at the numbers, don't like what they see and decide that some force is required to make the grade. Then they are happy. And knackered.

  • I with the non HR guys run to feel is my mantre image

  • best runner I ever knew was a keen HR fan (won the Wokingham half at about 45 in 05or 06), so there has to be something in it.

    But i agree with Ric, on pace based training zones.

    You just have to realise the terrain and conditions will affect it, and not still try and do the same pace, as you'll hit an entirely different effort level.

  • I'm too lazy to do a max HR test.

  • I just don't fancy wearing the strap myself. If it could pick up the heart rate via your wrist I'd be interested.

    7.5M xc this morning. Was very hard work after yesterday's session!

    Is cadence effciency influenced by leg length at all?

     

  • I wouldn't say I was against HR training, simply some of the claims made for it.

    Its a good distraction while on indoor machinery though, as I was this morning on the indoor bike. HR up to 140bpm. 

     

  • literatin wrote (see)

    I'm too lazy to do a max HR test.

    That's the exact same reason I have never properly used any of my HR equipment.

  • just sprint up a hill...that'll give you your max...

  • Highest HR I've ever seen, in order:

    - 202, end of a warm, windy 5,000m race, getting over lurgy
    - 201, end of a hot 30k off-road race, perfectly well
    - 198 - 200, various times absolutely going to the well in races typically over 5k-10k
    - 186, sprinting up a hill during a "max HR" test

    Sorry, but unless you're a mentalist, a standard "max HR" test will never produce your max HR.  image

    (I don't use HR any more.  I lost the chest strap in a pub, and it was pissing me off anyway.)

  • Sorry, when I say highest ever, I'm not counting my yoof as a keen cyclist, where a bit of shuttle running in a school gym would regularly get over 210.  Oh to be young, etc...

  • What were you doing in a pub with a HR monitor on?  Were you trying an alternative maximum heart rate test of picking out the biggest, henchest bloke in the pub, cracking onto his missus in front of him, then trying to leg it?

  • I was supposed to be doing a stealth change of kit in the pub toilet having turned up for a quiz, directly from a track session. Unfortunately the half glass of Prosecco that was my part of the prize for coming second must've gone straight to my head and I lost it.  image

  • Lots of  marathoner (inc PP) and IM folks like to race to HR as it gives them an upper limit to keep below...........I dodnt even have a GPS let alone run to HR. There is a famous story that an ex-pro cyclist called Steve Larson was leading the race at IM Kona (world champs) but was so freaked out by his HR data being differennt to what he wanted it to be  that he DNF'd when he was leading the race !

    Respect on the early morning running, I'm doing some of Steve Ways marathon sessions this VLM campaign and tomorrow I have 3x15mins at 6am, last week it was 24min,18min,12min, next week its something like 18min, 4x4min,18min !

  • You heard it from PubPhil folks, the way to find out your true max heart rate is to get yourself nice and ill, do some long obscure distance race, or to overdo it in a race, preferably all 3 image

    TR, are those actually at marathon pace? Or something quicker? Presuming the latter?

  • SG - the longer reps are supposed to MPish but I reckon they'll come out somewhere between HMP and MP, the shorter reps are supposed to be more tempo pace. I do mine up and down a measured 2M stretch, so know approx paces, I would expect the 3x15min to be middle ground too, but its more effort based for me. The BAC (Bournemouth AC ) folks that do these as a group end up quicker than MP, they would be more HMP for the 15min reps. At moment the "work" time is ony 45min, it builds to about 70min at peak.

  • I think I saw that Steve once did a session that is basically 26 loops of a 1mile route, so just be glad it's not that one!

    Loops can be good. I remember when I was first realising I could run a bit without stopping, I used to do this 3 or so mile loop, and one time I just thought, that was good, i'll do another loop.

    And it went on from there

  • I did 3x10km loops once. Never again though it did split the distance up nicely. When I first started I did out and backs, then plotted it on mapmyrun. I remember the first time I saw that'd I'd done 2 miles. I was very chuffed.

    Still have a horrendous throat, cancelled meetings tomorrow as I can't talk. Sore muscles and crap sleep (though lots of it). I know I've ill as I've happily written off the entire week. Next week will have to be all easy. I guess it takes 6 weeks for the body to adapt so the Wokingham training is in the bag already...

    I see from the grapevine that Ben L, formerly of this parish, has an elite start at VLM. Undoubtedly due to a begging email and some warm clothing image

  • Sounds like it was well done to get through Sunday's race then Iron, and this has been in the mixer for a while.

    Ben is a mental runner. He was already national standard in his brief time in Marlow, but he's making the kind of gains people make in their early careers.
    I thought as much, I always thought he didn't sound like he trained enough, but thought I was being churlish for someone of such a ridiculously better standard than me!!

    But it was obviously the case, as he's well up there now.

  • Looking back I don't think I've recovered properly since the pre-Xmas bout.

    Shame I'll miss Bracknell. I did it in the 2010/11 series but haven't done it since. Was lined up for last year but I recall snow caused a cancellation.

  • I'm also OUT.

    Bearing in mind Thursday is the rest day. That makes Friday a hard session day...which means organising a night out Thursday is ridiculous planning on my behalf, but will be good image

  • Iron I've said it before, but - get some Echinacae down you! It really does work!

    I remember seeing Steve's 26 x 1M session before on the sub 3 thread. Absolutely mental, but that sort of steely mental grit is what makes such a good marathoner I guess! The worst multi-lap anything I've ever done was the Luton Marathon! 3 laps, each more horrible than the last! Still, at least I knew what was coming on 2 and 3!

    SG - I sent you a PM - you ignoring me image

    Bloody RW - why have the emoticons still got Christmas hats??

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