Moraghan Training - Stevie G



  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    I am thinking of that time I fainted at Robin Hood half, narrowly avoiding tumbling down the steps into the river. Obviously I didn't know I was ill; I'm not a complete idiot. The 'virus' diagnosis was by process of elimination afterwards. It did take me quite a lot longer than I thought it would to get over the post-viral fatigue even once I could run again and I wasn't hitting anywhere near the level I had been in training for a few months.

    I was a bit careful, too - I have a friend who did too much road cycling with a virus and he's still not back to full energy levels years later and has chronic fatigue. I think you have to be very unlucky AND push things way too far though.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    That was a pretty sacry episode indeed Lit.


    No thanks Ric - I'm enough of a hypochondriac as it is! Every time I brush past a blade of grass I'm convinced I'm being pounced on by a Lymes carrying tick (and most of my running is through undergrowth image)

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Touch wood Bus, I've never been nailed by a tick. Gives me creeps just thinking about it.

    I've fished, walked, run most of my life, and spent the last ten years working in and around vegetation and undergrowth. Not ticked yet.

    Only reasons I can think of why I haven't (been nipped by a tick) is that I've hardly hair on my legs, but mostly I'm hyper sensitive to any insect or bug on my skin. Even an aphid will get swiped.

  • Burnham 5k last night and came out in 18.27 on the Garmin so will have to see what the official time is. Course is a hard one, half mile fast downhill, turn and half mile back uphill to complete the first lap, then the same again but longer with effectively a mile downhill and mile back up. The gradients are nothing too bad and are steepest at the start and finish but still it seems that you have to push all the way and no relaxing on a nice bit of flat. Downhills were good speed-work, I have 5:22 pace for the first km so must have been close to 5 for the fast bits. Weather was awful, started seriously bad and just got heavier and heavier rain. The slower runners looked drenched as I finished, jogged straight to my car and drove out at the end in my 4x4 and wondered what carnage lay ahead for the other hundred or so cars in a muddy carpark at the bottom of a grassy slope.

    Still not absolutely happy with the running but reality is that the plan was to come into May and race myslef fit and I have had 8 races and ended up with some 18.2x 5ks so if Sunday and a track 5000m comes out 18.1x or better it will be plan achieved.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    All that water must have been worth at least half a minute Phil. A couple of years back I ran the Aldershot Road Relays in similar conditions and discovered that my 8oz shoes had become 12oz shoes plus a couple of ounces of wet socks (I weighed all this later at home).

    I was really fit that year and finished with an up hill sprint. Last year I'd got a 20 mile crap race in the system and ran slower (2 seconds) in perfect conditions. 

    Different training for me this week. Last week was significant for having two speed sessions added on to a 10k race. The subsequent (BUPA) race indicated that this was not great.

    So I'm having a nice easy jog about this week instead. The race on Sunday is only 5 miles and 31:15 will get me an 80% age graded result. I've over 30 of these so far.

    By contrast, Martyn Rees has over 130 age graded in the 90% plus bracket. In fact, 90% plus is all he has on the list. That and ten of 100% plus.


  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    agree with Ric, that weather would indicate a much faster time is due for you Philip.  racing your self fit looks like it is working

    ric - there are a handful of vets on this thread who are handy runners and do well in the vets category in most races but the Martyn Rees and Antony Whitemans of this world are a different level.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Dean, yes, vets on the thread being handy runners. I occasionally look at old training diaries and see the training I was doing.

    I also look at the times Rees and Co are fielding and can remember being able to run that fast, almost.

    There's nothing I was doing then that was anything special, all I had to be was 'not fat'. Being 126lb's was 34 minute 10k pace almost guaranteed.

    At least I can still run ok. In my neck of the woods there are joggers my age who used to run 10 miles in around 50 minutes. For them, seeing the winning times of most road races today is upsetting.

    Upsetting because running 5 minute miling in a 10k got them nowhere. Now days they would be serial winners.


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Philip - I'm another one who thinks that was probably a sub 18 in better conditions.  It was horrible last night! Long (ish) run for me later. Can't face the total quagmire that the off-road stuff will be tonight, so I'll stick to the pavements I guess...

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    Ric - but there were less races back in the old days so of course they would always be won in smart times. Plus we are more mobile so can pick and choose races more further a field.  plus of course it probably makes a difference the races are accurately measured now rather than "that looks about 10miles draw the finish line there Frank!" image

    nowadays i can choose from loads of 10ks in the same month if i want.  so the talent at the front end is watered down on many of these races. 

    i have heard similar comments from guys from the 80's who did 10m in 50min but its funny i never hear any of them critcising the front end of Leeds Abbey Dash, Trafford 10k or even telford 10k.  they pick on "village fete" 10ks won in 35mins.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Dean, that's true. I've a picture somewhere which might be indicative of one of those courses.


     Only a 'might be'. Bedford reckoned I.S could have broken 27 minutes for 10k.

  • RicF wrote (see)

    That's a bit scary Lit.

    I should have added that running on a virus can compromise your immune system so much, that a bacterial infection can get hold.

    Interesting... that would certainly do it though.

    Ticks. I think I got ticked MTBing. By the time I realised, I had something stuck in my leg, which then disappeared after lots of scratching. Mrs made me draw a biro line around the swelling, and again, every hour. I could track how the swelling got worse. Then one day it just went.

    Some good going in those conditions Phil. I hope you get your target on the 5000 track.

    Speedwork at last! 10x 1min on, 1min jog. Along the North bank of the Seine in the shadow of Notre Dame. Paces worked out at (mi/km):

    4:11, 3:40, 3:40, 3:45, 3:34, 3:19, 3:48, 3:26, 3:19, 3:28.

    Pacing needs some work, and it shouldn't take too long from here on in to get back to where I was. 10k race on the 8th June, the first running of an event near my parents.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Good speedwork there IC. I notice how the faster speeds are achieved after ramping things up for a few minutes.

    Shows the benefit of a really intensive warm up prior to races.

    Actually, an intensive warm up was one thing missing from my London 10k. Compared with today's outing can I hardly have warmed up at all. 10 minutes jog about with a few strides wasn't really good enough.

  • Thanks Ric.

    A very good observation about warming up too. That was an easy 2.5km jog down to the river. For track work I'd have done at least that distance to get to the track before the WU starts, then some laps, butt kicks, high knees and finish up with 800m of strides before going in to the reps. Probably 5km of WU in total.

    I think in hindsight the 4:11 wasn't lack of pacing practise, just lack of adequate warm up.

    Glad I did a very easy 7km the night before to scout out the location for some reps. Some of the roads I ran down were pretty busy - a bit like running down Oxford St!


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Definitely moving in the right direction those Iron, and along the Seine for good measure - how very cosmopolitan image

    I've picked up lots of ticks, especially in the Lakes, and now take a special tick removal card with me at all times! Can't be too careful anywhere though. My cousin caught Lymes after a single tick bite in his garden in Oxfordshire! It took him over a year to fully recover, despite a relatively early diagnosis.

    13.1 road miles for me tonight to get the long run in early before racing on Sunday. Didn't aim for a half, just came out that way! 1:35:59, so not too shabby on a hilly route just a few days after my last long run. Left quad/groin a little sore, but hopefully nothing to worry about.

  • A good run Bus. Easy effort?

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Morning Iron - thanks. Medium effort rather than easy. Started very easy, did the hills easy but also put in a couple of MP miles for good measure between 8-10

    14M bike this morning. Roads were much wetter than I was expecting - not good having removed my mudguards image


  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    Good sessions iron and bus.  

    First session since recovering form cold.  1000 at 3k pace, 600 at 1500 pace and 200 at 800 pace * 2.  With 2 min rec and 6 between the sets.

    they came out

    3.01, 1.42,  29

    2.56, 1.41,  28

    happy 2nd set were stronger but the 600 both came out a few seconds slow. No ideas why as I wasn't struggling must be lack of concentration as I was doing them on my own..

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Looks good Dean. Certainly enough to keep things ticking over.

    Last two mornings for me was an exercise in checking out my 'warm up' procedure. The results show I need at least two miles to get things up to speed. I'll see how things pan out tomorrow at the first Summer League fixture.

    Dulwich Park 5 miles.

    I've won the V50 category for the past two years, in fact, if there was a prize for the largest amount of points scored by anyone, I'd have won that too.

    The system is that the winner gets 300 points, 2nd 299 points and so on. However, a V40 gets an additional 5 points, a V45 10 points and as a V50 I get 15 points.

    So if I end up in 6th place, I get 295 + 15. Which means its impossible for a senior to accrue as many points, even if they win every race.

    As ES&D are in the league, there's also the possibility that one Samir Haddad will put in an appearance. I'll be expecting as such when Ealing host their fixture in July.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Off to do the Coombe Hill Race in a bit. Closest thing we have to a fell race around these parts! 

    Should be interesting after the whole of yesterday was spent lugging heavy stuff around and building a deck in the garden!

    Anyone else racing today?

  • vets champs for me today, 5000m on the track. Looks to be a nice day, hot and still.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Hope it went well Philip!

    Coombe Hill was fun!

    After a slightly longer warm up than normal to accommodate my round number OCD (!) we set off from Wendover in between riders on the Chiltern 100 sportive at the usual cavalry charge. Far too fast on an uphill start! As we left the road and ht the first off-road section, I started to regain my breath slightly and climbed quite strongly into about 8th place. Just before we turned for the first downhill I sprinted past a couple of local rivals, knowing that they were better descenders than me and that because the steep downhill was single-track they would struggle to overtake! One very young lad did manage though, I assumed I’d catch him on the really steep hill, but never did. We then turned up the steepest part of the race, know as “The Front” - proper fell style hands on knees this bit, before finally reaching the top of Coombe Hill with lungs bursting.

    At this point I was in about 6th place and determined to stay there at least. About 3/4M of very muddy flat through the woods followed before the long downhill. I was working hard to try and keep position, and I knew I only had to get to the bottom of the hill to turn for the finish, so gave it my all – BUT, the course director had changed the last section! Instead of turning at the bottom of the hill into the finish, he sent us back up and over a hill! I could feel the bile rising on the climb, but it was as I tried to hold my position on a short sharp downhill that sent me into serious oxygen debt and just before the final turn toward the finish area the retching started! Four guys came out of nowhere and swept past me, as I stood to one side on the verge of vomiting. I got myself back together quickly and set off, turning on the slippery clay into the clay pit where the finish-line is, just behind a local rival, Owen Byrne. I thought I could catch him, but the buggers had done it again – instead of finishing where they did last year, they sent us up a load of steps and round the back of the clay pit!! This damn near finished me off and I started retching again, but thankfully managed to compose myself enough to stop the guy behind from catching me with a last minute “sprint” through the line. Talk about stings in the tail image

    Had a chat with a few guys after, including the winner who I’d met on the train. He didn’t look that fast when I first spoke to him, but turns out he is a College track runner from the states in the UK for a few days.  He has a 30:30 10k to his name, so definitely no slouch!

    Enjoyed my free beer in the pub after, before dashing back on the train. Got to cut the bloody grass now image

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Nice one Bus, replicates my day entirely, apart from the race.

    Probably as a result of doing too many jobs yesterday ( sorry, who says there's no work out there?) woke up feeling a bit tired. Down for a 5 mile race in Dulwich Park. 

    Ummed and ahh'd for a bit, wondering if to go or not. Easy. The fact that I'm weighing it up means it isn't on, so a 'not'. Easy jog for about an hour instead.

    Its a rubbish drive to Dulwich Park anyway.

    Then back to working all day.


  • Vets AC track champs today combined with the Surrey and Sussex vets so a good field. 3 full 5000m races: women, then men 35, 40 and 45, then then men 50 and older. Couple of miles gentle warm up and then onto the track and a quick chat to try and find someone going at my pace. The plan was to get as close to 18 as possible with half an eye on going sub 18 if possible. A 5000m is 12.5 laps and 90 seconds a lap gives you 18:45 so I needed to make about 3 seconds a lap up on 90 pace.

    Gun goes and the first lap was 83 so fast but felt comfortable and I have settled down to a pace just off the front group so that is OK as the said they were looking at 17 or faster.  Second lap and pace is still high and easy and third lap I am already about 15 seconds ahead and Garmin says the first mile in 5:33 though I pass 1600m in about 5:40 so have 20 of the 45 seconds I need in the bag so just need another 25 seconds over the next 2 and a bit miles.

    By now I am settled in and there is a guy behind me puffing and panting and just staying behind me and holding on so I keep pushing but he keeps hanging on so we move each other on at a nice pace. The laps tick by and the maths says I am still banking seconds so I ease up to 27, 28 seconds and only 4.5 laps to go. Starts to get heavy but I can feel the end coming close and suddenly I am over 30 seconds ahead of pace and I know that a low 18 is there for certain so just need to hold form. The winner laps me with about 600m to go and then I am through the bell and just 400m to go. Heavy breather starts to come past and I can't respond but need to concentrate on my own race and get round to 150m to go and can start to wind it up in a last effort. I can see the clock showing 17 and keep pushing and cross the line in 17:57/8.

    Need to wait for an official result but will be sub 18 and the aim for the year was to get at least one sub 18 so that is ticked off. Now it is done, plenty of time to try a faster one.

  • Great result Phil. Well done. 

    Nice race Bus. I did the C100 t'other year and know how lumpy things can get round that way. 

    Woodley parkrun on Sat. 21s faster that the other week so something is working. I held 5th or 6th on the back of a small group until the elastic broke. The chimp came out as usual at km 3 and 4 but managed to ramp for 5th km. I need to work on pacing better too. 11th overall, including a chicking image

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    21s faster is not to be sniffed at Iron image. 100M round the Chilterns is a big day out....

    Well done Philip - cracked the sub 18 already this year image

    Ric - I wish I had your ability to listen to myself and do the right thing!

    BBQ in the garden this evening, drinking beer, eating sausages and playing with my new mini-chiminea. I thought it was all going well and the chiminea was ideal in the corner of my patio until the plastic guttering 6 foot above it started melting image. Doh!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Well done on the races Phil, IC and Bus.

    IC, 21 seconds is quite a lot, especially if worked out in distance terms.

    Phil, great result, I could do with a track time of that nature. Last year I had an opening lap of 83 seconds which turned out to be a closerimage.

    Bus, my neighbours are always having BBQ's, in fact I get the impression that in summer their evening meals are BBQ's.

    At least now know why theirs smell like plastic burning. I assumed it was because they were in too much of a hurry to take the sausages out of the packet.

    I tend towards the 'if in doubt' way of thinking these days.

    Found this while jogging about.



    Brightens things up.

  • Ric, summer is all about the BBQ. Though I do take your POV regarding risk - I sent a steak back to the kitchen last week in France. And some slightly pink chicken. image That was a worrying evening.

    Is that a Red Admiral? We had some great butterfly pictures the other year using a macro lens. Great to see how their long tongue rolls up.

    I quite fancy a chiminea, especially as our new house doesn't appear to have any evening sun. An expensive oversight image

    Hopefully you both noticed the lack of PB in the previous post. Agreed 21s is good over 4 weeks though this is me getting used to using previously accessible speed. Still 1m08 behind PB.

  • Odd thing with the track is that you get different tables for WAVA grading. 5000m on the track in 17:57 is 79.08% WAVA but same time for a road 5k gets 80.86%. The equivalent time turns out to be 18:21 which is silly: I have run 18.2x a number of times this year on courses which have had a selection of wet, windy and hilly adjectives applied to them. Means I am still looking for my first 80% WAVA of 2014.

    Anyway, onwards and upwards. Ealing mile on Friday (5:13 is 80% WAVA which is too fast for me at the moment) and then Wargrave 10k on Sunday (37:46 is 80% WAVA and I did 38:06 last year and I am about in the same form so that will be hard).

  • JohnasJohnas ✭✭✭

    Nice race reports Bus & Phil and very respectable outings indeed. 

    Plenty to come off that Parkrun time Iron if the photo of you showboating on FB is anything to go by!

    Worthing 10k for me yesterday. Had come to the conclusion after Eastleigh and Highgate that my 33.15 of last year is going to take a while to get near to again. So, rather than go out at 5.20m/m pace and fade massively like my last 2 10ks, the plan was to be more sensible and go off at 5.30m/m and see if that works better and helps me keep things more consistent (and enjoyable to be honest!)

    After a false start (!), the initial cavalry charge included a 16 stone bloke with headphones and a 15 year old kid being ahead of me at the 1 mile mark. They soon died on their arses and it was a case of deciding whether to stick with the group of club vests I was with or push on. The pace was slipping already so clearly the group I was with had started far too optimistically too so off i went to keep things on track and that's how it stayed for the rest of the race. At this point I was in about 15th of the 2 lap course so could see the vests ahead of me at regular intervals and just set the target of working hard, picking them off and not being passed.

    Please to finish in 8th in the end in 34.22. Pace slipped at the end so still lots of work to do on the speed endurance but things moving in the right direction and it was a much better ran race on my behalf which is what I’m most satisfied with.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    34 minutes looks pretty good to me Johnas, well it does until about the 1 mile point, by which point they are all out of sight.

    IC, the Butterfly is a 'Painted Lady'. Its a relatively scarce migrant to Britain.

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