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Scott Edgington wrote (see)
Dachs the program looks good. Was it a planned 8-9 week build up or was that what was in between the starting point and "that" race! I have a few questions for thought though if you don't mind? The mileage inbetween the sessions (day to day) doubles? singles? Obviously you built up length of reps and were running them fast, as you said you wouldn't have been able to do that at the start.. But now would you consider going back down (length) for 4-6 weeks and shortening the reps going for some speed then coming back up again 4-6 weeks with increasing the length again? Would that theory even work??
Dachs the program looks good. Was it a planned 8-9 week build up or was that what was in between the starting point and "that" race!
I have a few questions for thought though if you don't mind?
The mileage inbetween the sessions (day to day) doubles? singles? Obviously you built up length of reps and were running them fast, as you said you wouldn't have been able to do that at the start..
But now would you consider going back down (length) for 4-6 weeks and shortening the reps going for some speed then coming back up again 4-6 weeks with increasing the length again? Would that theory even work??
Scott, the easy miles were mainly doubles, simply because running to and from work is the only way I can fit in the mileage, rather than any firm plan. 8 weeks was definitely pre-planned, it seemed like a good build up time to avoid peaking too soon.
In terms of shortening the reps and more speed, I would if I was aiming for some more quick 1500s or 3000s. However, I want a bit more varied racing in the autumn, so a 10 mile and a half marathon will both be on the agenda before the 10K in November, so I'm going to settle into more of my usual pattern, keeping up the speedwork (one session only), reintroducing a weekly tempo and upping the long run. However, I may try to crank out a couple more short races before I do that.
Dean - yes, I'd been doing 80+ weeks at the height of marathon training, so the 60s weren't really much of a problem.
Difficult to say what effect hill sprints had relative to the 200s. It was just much easier for me to fit them into a running commute to work, particularly since the track seemed to be constantly booked for school sports days. I think they helped with legspeed, which was my main post-marathon issue, but hard to be sure.
Cheers for posting it Dachs. After last weeks 12x 400 which I'm calling my first session, I've 4/5 weeks until the last Lancaster 5k which I'm targeting. It's the 3rd one in the series tomorrow night and I'm going to run it to see what I can manage. I'm going to keep my mileage where it's at now (60+) and hopefully get two track sessions and a tempo in each week.
Im also thinking of throwing a 10 mile race in instead of one of my long runs. I ran 58.40 a couple of years ago and I've not ran one since and i should shave a good bit off that. ill do the tues, thurs session that week then miss the weekend tempo tomorrow it.
RicF, if I didn't race I'd still definitely run. I enjoy the easy miles but really have to work myself up to do the sessions and racing. I'm not a fan of racing at all in all honesty. I hate chasing the clock. Thats what appeals to me about the trails and fells, it's the conditions and others you race and not the clock. That's what I've enjoyed about doing some races this summer, racing the runners and not the time.
Matt, I used to read people saying how they'd moved from road to offroad as they found pb hunting a bit soul destroying in the end. Didn't use to understand it at all, but do a bit now.
However, I know one person who couldn't be further away from that view at the mo..but they can pop on later and explain why
Matt, as I've become older I've become less inclined to race, as in, enter the things in the first place.
Fact is, I don't run races, I race them. I toe the line and switch into a state of mind that never appears in training. Not good when unfit or carrying a niggle.
At least twice I've been in a race knowing that when I stopped, I wouldn't be running again anywhere, indefinitely. That's smashing yourself.
Also, the group of guys I went to races with have all gone. Not much interested in the solo outings which I used to do before then.
Having said that, one of them phoned up earlier today. The upshot of that is that I've entered the 'Hooky 6' which is in about two weeks.
Last did the race four years ago. Feel I've a chance to beat the time I did then.
Something to go for.
So, in seven paragraphs I go from never racing again to lining one up.
Matt, I wouldn't worry about being beaten by people you normally beat. Its part of the game. Just beat them back later.
I once ended a guys running career because I beat him. Couldn't cope with the fact it was me. Such is the danger of believing that everyone has 'their place'.
Daley Thompson, the serial decathlon champion had a place. It was 1st. Then in one competition he picked up a niggle. After 'day one' he was trailing. The media didn't expect to see him again. 'Day two', he appears and grinds it out to the end. Finished dead last.
That's respect to your fellow competitors.
Jugen Hingsen, a German who was always beaten into second place by Thompson said afterwards, "I always thought Daley was a great champion, and now I know he is".
I prefer running in the bigger races where i can run a PB and finish outside the top 100 like at Leeds last year as opposed to winning a cock and biscuits NAD race. Lancaster should be ideal tonight. Little breeze, 20 degrees and usually one or two low to mid 15 min runners.
6.30pm on a Saturday is a right weekend wrecker though.
What's with all the philosiphising guys? Sun's shining, legs are working get out and run best as you can, while you can!
Rye parkrun this morning. Spent last night thinking about whether to venture out a bit further afield for a faster course and a go for sub 18 (still can't quite get my head around you running well over 2 mins inside that Dachs ). Glad I didn't bother in the end, as the legs clearly haven't quite recovered from last Sunday's half (not surprising really!) and it was pretty warm. The third mile ended up as a bit of a grind today, and my calves feel very tight after, but OK with 18:21 for 3rd anyway. Beats a tempo run anyway!
very true Bus! Congrats on the parkrun podium!
Dachs, just a shout out of well done with the new 5k PB: I missed it as I was out in New York last week.
I raced a 5k on Wednesday night in sweltering heat and came home second of 166 in 19:08. Bit of an odd race: lots of super-fast high school lads shot out and died very soon, but also another vet who should have known better was ahead of me after one lap and running alongside the 17 year old winner but ended up over a minute back. I wish the winner was a year younger as then I would have been 3 times his age!
Got back to find that I had been signed up to pace the Dorney Dash 10k at 40 minutes: I reckon it is a bit of a stitch up as we have a club champs race on Wednesday and nobody else wanted a hard one so close. Set out and there was a big bunch, maybe 20 runners, all aiming at sub 40. I was told "even pace" so I said "off you go, if you are to beat 40 you need something in the bank" but nobody did. We hit the 4 minutes per km pretty well and got a few seconds banked but even at the 2.5 km turn (effectively 2 out and backs) the group was thinning and 19:5x at half way saw about a dozen enter the water station and maybe only eight come out in the pack. 5 to 7.5 was into the wind so kept it on 4 dead and then 7.5 back home had a tail wind and quite good cooling as well. By then we were about 4 or 5 and a couple pushed on to go comfortably inside 40 and I pulled the last few and swept up a couple more who had gone out fast and needed a push at the end.
Saw a few familiar faces from various threads, always nice to out a face to a made up name.
sounds a good pacing job Phil!
By all accounts I've read horrendous conditions. But then that's the risk with Mid July/August racing isn't it!
Sounds like a top pacing job Philip - nicely done! Well done on the 2nd place in the States too!
It was hot today, and inevitably that will slow you down a tad but really people should be starting to acclimatize themselves a bit more by now! We've had hot, humid weather for several weeks, so if you know you've got a race coming up, you need to get out there in it and get used to it a bit.
wouldn't fancy racing in it....went out temperatures mid day today, and found a 6miler come out quite nicely at 6.46 pace.
Am definitely chomping at the bit for a full return now, but in fairness this will be the 5th week of average 58miles, so hardly tiny fare
Embracing these new stretches, and you see the difference immediately. After a couple, can suddenly touch the floor not just with tips of fingers but lower. And the pathetic lie on floor raise on leg, that was coming out at about 45degrees, came out around perhaps 75 ish?
Obviously when you go and sit for a bit after it shortens up, but it'll be a long term mission.
Watched a youtube vid of some runner woman who did 90degrees easily. Had a physio poke her with a broom (!) in 3 key leg/glute areas, and could suddenly get 100+ degrees or so!
Nice racing Phil. What are the prizes like over in America?
Well you were right SG. ran the Lancaster 5k tonight. Had to turn an invite to a BBQ down today and watch the missus go while I sat at home with my feet up! Painful. I knew I had to run to give me some sort of marker of where I was at and knew that although it'd been warm it was forecast to be 20 degrees and there's usually a strong field with a few mid to low 15 min runners which I could hopefully help me along.
Had a jog out to just past the mile marker as it opens up onto a riverbank and I to locked there was a slight headwind. Nothing major but you run into it for 1/2 mile before a dead turn and back again. Thought if I could tuck in behind someone until the turn and hopefully get pulled along. I could only see a bloke on the start who I knew was going to be around where I was. George Thompson, a V55 who beat me last year when I ran 15.51 there. He's 57! Great bloke too as I had a jog and a chat with him after.
A lap of the track and me and George are tucked in behind a young lad who I knew had only run mid16s to 17 mins. He was 5.06 -5.10 miling so stayed in behind them. Round onto the cycle paths and around 3/4 of a mile or so in I checked my watch to see that we were 5.17 miling. Plan A had to go and I knew if I was to have a solid run I'd have to push on. Ended up going through the first mile in 5.12 and had opened up a gap already and it turned out a solo run from there on. Bit of a headwind for the 1/2 mile to the dead turn but it cooled me down to so can't complain. 5.03 for the second mile and then 5.07 for the 3rd and finished in 15.51.
i never expected to win and although I'm really happy with it I hope there's the quality at the next one at the end of August which may help me knock some time off. Obviously the 'slow' first mile didn't help but I feel there's more to come off it. needed that to keep the flame flickering away!
Nice racing + win Matt, shows some good things though, that even without some structure / targets lately you are now in sub 16 shape when not in shape so to speak! You'll knock a good 3 minutes or so off that 10 miler too I think ..
Phillip, showing experience and pacing working well there!
Dachs my Eastleigh build up was around that aswell.. (6-8 weeks) But my general mileage was smaller too.. Will see how larger mileage etc pays off for me.. Will be doing 2 big sessions and 1 smaller (ish) one per week. Rather than 3 big tough ones.. But over 15 weeks..
Cheers Scott, the next one in the series is on 30th August so hopefully I can squeeze a bit more out which I think is doable Even though its only 4/5 weeks away. Hopefully there's some quicker lads there then.
Looking at macmillan off yesterday's time I should be running 55 dead so will try and run 5.30s. I know there's a couple of climbs in it with a couple of descents but hopefully they're not to bad.
Joe Monk? Yeah he ended up 4th. It was Joe who was leading up until 3/4 mile. They've got him down as a V45 in the results!
Nice one Matt - sub 16 thrown in just like ! Good stuff!
Going to treat myself this morning, by doing a medium long one instead of a proper long one! The way I look at it is that all miles this week are a bonus, as I was expecting to have to take several days off after Wycombe
Yes he is only 16 and left school this time. Seems to have plenty of dedication so with the right guidance I am sure he will get down to some interesting numbers. Most importantly he is needs to avoid all the temptations that most of us don't!
Matt, great run, even more for the way you make 5 minute miles sound like our 6's. Or even 7's.
Most casual 'speed' reference I've heard about was where a clubmate overheard a locker room chat concerning the London Marathon. "Not bad, I went through 10 miles in 48 minutes, I thought it a little fast but I didn't let it worry me".
15 miles for me this morning. Ran it a fair bit easier today, averaging 7:55 min mile pace. More interested in how much fluid this was going to cost me.
Tale of the tape: Following a 'carbo loading' strategy, my base weight was 129.5 lb's. Drank 3 large mugs of tea (+ 2lb's). At 5 & 10 miles drank another 500ml (+ 2lb's).
My weight on return 2 hours later was 127.5lb's. I hadn't stopped to rid myself of excess fluid.
So the total cost was 6lb's of fluid. Bloody hell!
So, rather than shatter the cells in my own muscles to keep my major organs alive during a run, I'll stick to drinking.
Nice work on the casual sub 16 5k and win matt.
again some top experience and pacing from pmj.
i had went out for an impromptu track session this morning. Got to the track and all around it was busy as some regional cheer leading completion was on. Lots of twentysomething ladies in Lycra. So did my session to the backdrop of this, Pom poms and cheers....though that could be a normal response for me training in a vest Mind you when deciding which way the wind was blowing, I stumbled fell over my feet and landed on a heap, water bottle went flying. I cut knee, leg, arm and hands. So it might have been sympathy.
6*300 off 4 mins target sub 45s.
very tidy Matt, 15 anything is some top local level running! Think you said the other day there's a whole swath of you on here doing that now. Some of us would settle for dipping into the 16s again!
Nice long one Ric. That length of run is massively satisfying isn't it? Something about it feeling like the longest you'd generally run outside of marathon training isn't it?
With my new found flexibility. Ok, ok, with my flexibility back on the scale of actually having any, I fancied a rampage out to Marlow and back a "quicker" way.
It's 8miles out, and my perception is that the "quicker" way back, which features a steep hill and turning off the route is a lot less than 8miles.
It's 7.5miles, so ended as a tidy 15.5miles, which is the furthest I've done for 2months now! And a bit of a step up from the 12 and 13 of the last 2 weeks.
And whereas the last 5 or 6 long runs have tightened a lot after 6/7miles and I've been delighted to see 12 up, today was just flashes of tightness.
7.05 average, with a couple of miles offroad, a few gates to open and a super steep 1/2mile at 12.5miles. Very nice. Even if I have been tight the rest of today, but that's pretty usual after that length run anyway to be honest.
With the last 5 mileages now being 61.5, 57,58.5,59,58, probably haven't lost too much and have just maintained the original level.
Yes SG, certainly satisfying, and definitely the furthest I intend going any time soon.
No tightness in my case but a number of minor 'point' pains dotted about. That's a warning in my book. Tomorrow will be a very careful outing.
It would be a shame to 'duff out' at this stage. Two weeks ago I ran the same loop at maybe half a minute per mile faster and was really tired. Today I wasn't even aware of breathing.
The lower legs don't feel so fresh, mind.
if you feel fresh after a 15mile run, chances are you've taken it too easy. So your "aftermath" sounds about right.