Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2017

    As per CC, Reggie, just on numbers alone 22nd to 6th is a terrific improvement, nice work indeed. And you're well placed to smash yourself at your big one.

    I remember with Dean years ago, he was trying longer distance races, when the track reps screamed for short distance focus. With you, I guess it's a no brainer not to ramp the running up, although we'd all be intrigued what you could do with just that focus, and much more a case of fuelling the talent in the multi sport. Not to mention the injury side seemingly brought on by the running.


    HA77! I'd clocked your forum name before, and vague mentions of the XC series from others, but i'd been off that scene for ages now, so didn't really register.

    What a small world to see who you are, i'm not even sure i'd have realised from the pic! However, feel free to contribute on here as much as you like, quite a few locals on here, and if I can regain some heart for the harder races of XC, rather than the flat road stuff I've been doing, i'll try and join you and Reg, albeit very much the 3rd man home, the way you're going and the way Reg has that as a speciality!

    At least in the winter it won't be humid, my weather enemy!

    ps, agreed a random choice of name, before the days  a certain Liverpool player became famous for it too! As a United fan it makes it even more ridiculous in a way!


    Yesterday was a day off, with drive to Manchester for the game, and then back to Birmingham for a overnighter. 100miles back just then, and now off for a 6 miler for just a single today. Should be ok, not pretty but ok.


    Matt - made me chuckle...i'm not sure what number rep that pic is on, but we're at least lapping them by then, maybe a second time.Shocking socks I agree...not as bad as the time I wore Simpsons socks, and some guy on a RW race report mentioned how gutted he was to be overtaken by a "kid" wearing them. :)

    Scott, and others, that race walking is ridiculous. Like a combo of pulled muscle and having browned yourself. Mad.

  • Reg Wand said:
    so guaranteed GB qualification for the Euros and or World Champs next year.
    OK, triathlon is confusing at the best of times, but how does that work? Triathlon is basically a swim where you swim for an approximate distance and are allowed to follow other swimmers and so benefit from the drafting. You then "transition" (I got up and transitioned from my pyjamas to my clothes) and you get on a bike and pedal for an approximate distance and you may or may not be allowed to draft other riders but everyone does so anyway.  You then "transition" again (wait a second while I pop into this transitioning room and see if I like these clothes) and then run an approximate distance and drafting is again allowed. 

    You then take this arbitrary set of events and try and compare it to an equally arbitrary but different set of events that take place on a different day in a different location and make a selection on what basis?

    I am not questioning the athletes, anyone who can swim (about) 1.2 miles, then cycle 56 miles in a shade over 24 mph and still run a (short) half marathon in under 1:25 is an athlete in anyone's book, but times are not comparable and position depends entirely on who turns up and pays. 




  • A  lot of stuff to get through - nice race report SG - love a bit of grass running..good to hear from CC again too. Likewise not a Tri expert, but Reggie seems to be getting up to a great level now, international honours etc..Decent training from the two Matts and Bus.

    Football was crap Saturday - then had a bit of a hangover Sunday morning, but had arranged a longish Sunday run with a guy we used to train with, so a few of the training group came over too. Felt really good, but remembered that I was carbo loaded and had 2 Anadin extra at 5am so there were no aches or pains! About 9 miles to end the 'fat boy' 2-3 weeks and herald proper training again.

    So the Alcester 5k tomorrow then looks like I am doing a 1500 fro Herne Hill in the BAL at Lea Valley on Sunday.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Reg Wand said:
    so guaranteed GB qualification for the Euros and or World Champs next year.
    OK, triathlon is confusing at the best of times, but how does that work? Triathlon is basically a swim where you swim for an approximate distance and are allowed to follow other swimmers and so benefit from the drafting. You then "transition" (I got up and transitioned from my pyjamas to my clothes) and you get on a bike and pedal for an approximate distance and you may or may not be allowed to draft other riders but everyone does so anyway.  You then "transition" again (wait a second while I pop into this transitioning room and see if I like these clothes) and then run an approximate distance and drafting is again allowed. 

    You then take this arbitrary set of events and try and compare it to an equally arbitrary but different set of events that take place on a different day in a different location and make a selection on what basis?

    I am not questioning the athletes, anyone who can swim (about) 1.2 miles, then cycle 56 miles in a shade over 24 mph and still run a (short) half marathon in under 1:25 is an athlete in anyone's book, but times are not comparable and position depends entirely on who turns up and pays. 




    • The criteria allow for 5% +/- variation in race distance.
    • It must also be deemed competitive, which basically means there's a minimum of 250 competitors
    • Chip timing
    • Draft illegal 
    • It has to be sanctioned and proof provided of the course accuracy.
    • You submit your overall time to the BTF,  calculated as a % of the winner of your age-group.
    • You need to be within 120% of that time for the Euros, to be considered or 115% for the World's. 

    There were several time penalties dished out for drafting on Sunday but obviously if you're capable of hearing a motorbike coming up behind you, you can just change your behaviour! I hate seeing drafting as I don't do it. To be honest there are very few other riders fast enough for me to draft off anyway.

    Drafting on the swim is legal and a skill, one I am not good at. It basically means you have to go out hard to get on the toes of the faster swimmers which is a gamble, it's very tactical and a good element of the sport, it's by no means cheating or arbitrary, the best cleverest swimmers deserve better times.

    You can't draft on the run I didn't see anyone for 30 minutes  :D 

    The shorter events, like the ones you see in the Olympics, have actual qualifying races but that's not practical for middle and long distance.

    There's a bit of luck involved in who wins your age-group and how fast they were but that's part of it, all races are available for all to enter. It's worth doing some research to find the event that suits you most. Ultimately, I want to win a medal at the championships, not just qualify, that's the point at which you're definitely very good. You can represent GB just by being pretty good.





  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭
    I did what I thought was an epic Sunday morning hilly 12 miler to round off 58ish miles for the week (off 5 days) - I think that was 131 miles for the past 2 weeks.  About 8 minute miling for the run.  i say "epic" because I got up early and was out the door at about 6.15 whilst everyone was still asleep.  First time I've managed that for some time - child number 2 (now aged 1 and a bit) has been a pain in the arse at sleeping.  I used to get away with these early runs all the time with child number 1, in fact, it was very unusual for anyone to be awake before I got back from said early run.
    I was feeling all smug with myself as I got back into the house before 8am to be met by a slightly grumpy wife having just been dealing with an hour and a half of screaming 1 year old, who woke up a tired 4 year old...  I, of course, was getting blamed for waking her up, but I'm sure it was just a massive coincidence...
    Another 7 at lunchtime today and gearing up for the first of my ridiculous pre-work 20 milers tomorrow morning...
  • AG, well done on your result, as well as qualification for Euro and World's! As for not being full tilt, I await what you come out with at your IM!!

    Great running SC, it's tough getting back to it, especially with a long run - but I'm sure you'll do just fine tomorrow at the 5k!

    Legs were complaining a bit yesterday, but all good today. Starting to think about when I should up the ante back to 6x a week - maybe give it a few more weeks, as running will likely be disrupted with moving into a house, as well as a wedding
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    CC -damned if you do and damned if you don't!

    Cracking long run Matt - any reason for running 4 fast miles, but not including the whole parkrun in them or just fancied leaving that group standing ?!

    Good work Reg - great performance and nicely tactical too. I got a (cheap) wet-suit today. I'd be challenging you in some Tri, except for the fact it's both too baggy but also too tight across the chest so is going back! Oh, that and the fact you would beat me by a country mile in both the swimming and cycling (and probably the run too!). It's also not for doing a triathlon, but for messing about in the sea in Cornwall in a couple of weeks.

    27M on the bike yesterday, intending them to be fast miles, but the legs didn't want to play! Lots of upper body work after (of sorts!), with an hour rowing the family about at Windsor yesterday afternoon, then a few miles kayaking to a riverside pub and back from Henley today with the Mrs. To kayak on the Thames you need a licence.  I've paid around £60 a year for one for two years, which ended up costing about £15 a time to take the kayak out, and as I've never been asked to show it to anyone I didn't renew it this year. Of course today, the bloody lock-keeper at Henley asked to see it! I had to pay for a week licence, so will be going out next weekend too, to get my money's worth! Grrr!
  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Haha Bus. He must have known that you looked like a novice. ;-) 

    I was down to do 18 miles and then do the last 4 quicker but I didn't get out earlier enough for it to coincide and I didn't fancy doing the last one of the parkrun and then 3 on my own. 

    Easy 30 mins this morning and another easy hour after work so a 12 mile day. 
  • Reg Wand said:
    There's a bit of luck involved in who wins your age-group and how fast they were but that's part of it, all races are available for all to enter. It's worth doing some research to find the event that suits you most. Ultimately, I want to win a medal at the championships, not just qualify, that's the point at which you're definitely very good. You can represent GB just by being pretty good.

    I suppose I look at it from a runners point of view, and with some envy. There is a 40 year old guy who I used to run with when I was running for Wycombe Phoenix and he is nothing special: my head-to-head on powerof10 says 12-1 to me and that 1 was this week when I was pacing 21, but he is an age grouper so has a GB tri-suit with his name on the front and it all and is all very fancy. He obviously is not winning medals but my reward from over 30 years running is representing my college at university and various running clubs at the National XC (when entries were limited) and the odd 12-stage relay and a bronze county medal over 10 miles and a gold over 5,000m when I was the only entry.

    CC82 said:
    gearing up for the first of my ridiculous pre-work 20 milers tomorrow morning...

    What is ridiculous about a pre-work 20 miler? That is the best way to do them, then get a day to recover at the desk.




  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Great result Reg.
    I only have to look at the bike average speed to get some idea of the standards involved.

    Only on the bike myself at the moment. Average speed is way down. Then again, it's impossible to go flat out in the places I end up in.

    As for Tri. I never got involved, since for me, it was an open ended challenge too much. Even when I could be bothered to train well. I couldn't face training to swim, and cycle and run all at once.
    One clue is that the number of bike rides over 50 miles I've done I could count on the fingers of one hand.

    Maybe it doesn't matter enough to me to want to win.
    Or too lazy.

    🙂

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭

    CC82 said:
    gearing up for the first of my ridiculous pre-work 20 milers tomorrow morning...

    What is ridiculous about a pre-work 20 miler? That is the best way to do them, then get a day to recover at the desk.

    Glad you agree Phil - I thought everyone else in the world would see it as ridiculous!  The ridiculous part of it for me is having to get up at 4.15am due to a 1 hour commute to work as well.

    20 miler done though.  I was going for a fairly ambitious set of:

    8 easy; 2@7:00; 2@6:50; 2@6:40; 2@6:30; 2@6:20; 2 cool down

    Came out at:

    8@ ave. 7:32; 2@ 6:59; 2@ 6:51; 2@ 6:43; 2@ 6:47; 2@ 7:04; 2@8:21

    The final 2 reps just turned into a "let's not completely fall apart" fare.  Felt pretty comfortable through the 7s, 6:50s and 6:40s (not quite sure how that dropped to 6:43...), and I was hitting about 6:20 by accident at the start of the 6:30s but as soon as I started to go "uphill" (very gentle ascent) the pace fell away and my legs were knackered.  I decided to try and keep it progressive all the way through but the pace kept dropping back, so I then thought I'd concentrate on keeping it sub 6:50s through the final 4 but that obviously didn't happen on the last rep where I then pushed to try and keep it sub 7s...  Also didn't happen!

    Tasty Tuesday morning workout though.  Pretty pleased with that given the lack of long running since I got injured in February.  Until a few weeks ago it was ages since I'd run longer than 10 miles.  Since then I've done a nearly 25 miler (very slow) on the South West Coast Path, a 16 miler with 8 @ about 6:50 pace, 20 miler @ 7:45s and then that one today.  Plus a couple of 12 milers in amongst it.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    I've also done a few pre-work 20s as marathon prep. It's quite a nice way to get them done without wasting your day - you just have to get on with it at work!

    Good work, but pretty sharp paces though for a long run CC. Any particular reason to push it so hard?

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭
    Bus - yeah that's pretty much my thinking.  Trying to not eat into the weekend.  I'm doing my sessions as part of my long run and medium long run.  And running everything else easy.

    It's how my previous 2 coaches set up my long runs as I got to the sharper end of marathon training.  The 2 longer runs are the key to marathon running surely - it's not like the 12 mile easy run as part of 10k training.  That's the way I'm looking at it anyway!
  • Can't imagine doing marathon training now - when the hip flexors are screaming after 14 miles! Although I would like to do some 15/16 milers at some point to get ready for the xc season. Sadly, there's so many bloody Sunday races I will have to fit them in some other time.

    BAL this weekend is Sunday at Lee Valley, now I have to do a 5k, not a 1500. The b/h weekend is free - then Sundays in Sept are silly! 3/9 - Southern Vets final, 10/9 - Eastern Vets final, 17/9 - helping out with Leighton 10, 24/9 - southern road relays!!..

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Reg Wand said:
    There's a bit of luck involved in who wins your age-group and how fast they were but that's part of it, all races are available for all to enter. It's worth doing some research to find the event that suits you most. Ultimately, I want to win a medal at the championships, not just qualify, that's the point at which you're definitely very good. You can represent GB just by being pretty good.

    I suppose I look at it from a runners point of view, and with some envy. There is a 40 year old guy who I used to run with when I was running for Wycombe Phoenix and he is nothing special: my head-to-head on powerof10 says 12-1 to me and that 1 was this week when I was pacing 21, but he is an age grouper so has a GB tri-suit with his name on the front and it all and is all very fancy. He obviously is not winning medals but my reward from over 30 years running is representing my college at university and various running clubs at the National XC (when entries were limited) and the odd 12-stage relay and a bronze county medal over 10 miles and a gold over 5,000m when I was the only entry.






    Come on son, just a couple of weeks ago, 2 guys on our own thread showed where you could quite easily represent GB!
    Yeah you may not be the top quality and winning medals like our two boys, but with no qualifying standard,  I'm certain you'd not be embarrassed. I wouldn't have even been last in the V35 cat!



  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    cc, 20MILES, and doing faster stuff in there? That's one heck of a morning session! I can only imagine how little work you got done the rest of the day!

    A more humble 6 & 4 for me today
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Nice work on a tough session CC, you certainly don't mind extending yourself. I'm a bit like that sometimes and I think it can lead to injury.

    I did consider the Masters Athletics, it is very similar. I looked at the v40 rankings top 25 and it's quite funny, 100m goes from 11.3 to Kim Collins running 9.96 and the 10,000 from 32:xx to Bernard Lagat running 27:xx

    6.5 mile recovery at lunch for me.
  • CC82, nice 20. If I am picky, and I am, you didn't complete what you set out to do so you either over-cooked it or the plan was too ambitious. Do you have an idea which category it fell into? The big thing about marathon training is getting a handle on pace (so being able to knock out a run according to a schedule) but also understanding what pace you are likely to be able to run a marathon at so you don;lt set off too fast or too slow but, like Goldilocks, just right. You, or your coach, should be setting achievable goals and not overly ambitious. You can leave a bit of a door open at the end but if you are running out of steam at 16 miles and holding on for the last 4 it is not a progressive 20. Still, kudos for a good run. 

    That is what my kids call a shit sandwich, praise, (constructive) criticism, praise. 
  • http://www.bristolandwestac.org/events/aztec-west-fast-5k/

    Maybe a little too far out ffor some but our group have just pencilled these in as target races

    Impressive 20 miler CC and AG uber bike again! Cannot imagine ever being that good. Surely that's inline with some Pros???
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    CC - Philip said what I was thinking!!!

    I've looked at those Aztec West 5ks before Scott, as my in-laws live just round the corner - there in lies the problem though :-). They look quick though...

    Double day today - 7 + 5.6. Bit sore on the second one, but nothing spectacular.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    My observation on the CC 20 miler is that in line with the Seb Coe weight training regime, it's probably better to hit the fastest paces (heaviest weights) at the start of the session and then slow down as one chooses instead of being forced to do so.

    If the control of pace is in line with one's ability, it should be possible to speed up in the latter stages. 

    🙂

  • CC82CC82 ✭✭✭
    To answer Phil - you've called it spot on.  I set the paces too ambitiously.  I'm kind of feeling my way through this to an extent and trying to find what the correct pace is.  It's as much about the process as the outcome for me on this marathon.  I appeared to be headed towards a sub 2:50, perhaps even 2:45 earlier in the year until I got injured.  I'm clearly not going to hit sub 2:50 off 8 weeks' training at this stage, but think a sub 3 may be doable.  I'm treating marathon pace as 6:50s, but trying to incorporate faster than 6:50s into some of the longer runs for 2 reasons.  1. To make 6:50s feel as easy as possible; and 2. To check whether 6:50s is the right pace (i.e. not too slow).

    At this stage, I think 6:50s is probably just about right.  I am fully aware that I'm pushing the boat out a bit with the increase in mileage etc. and will keep a constant check on things and scale back if necessary.

    This is mostly an exercise in seeing whether I can actually do marathon training with the longer runs through the week.

    I've been forced to miss my run this morning, so I'll probably just get a 5-6 miler in at lunchtime.  My youngest was up through the bloody night again so I had to get up a bit later!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Have clocked those Aztec 5ks before. Stand out as there are so many, and they cover so much of the year. A good potential option if needs be.

    Hadn't been to the track for a while, so fancied a version of last Thursday's relay race, so went for 5x1k off 90secs.

    Didn't have a clue what pace i'd look for. When i do my series of sessions, they build over time, so you'd encounter this one about 7/8 weeks in.
    I thought the 1.18 lapping might be optimistic (3.15) and wondered if 1.20 for 3.20 might be better. But then 17 dead  for 5k is 3.24

    3.21,3.25,3.23,3.24, and then 4.04 for 1200, as I managed to misremember where I was finishing (!)  Probbo the equivalent to 3.25.

    So probably ever so slightly sub 17 as an average, which when you look at it like that is probably spot on currently.
    First time I can remember in years getting a rep distance wrong! At least i did more rather than less!
    Local legends Sam and Trev were getting going just as I wrapped up, reminding me how Wednesday track is quite a novelty for me!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Thought you'd leave your vest at the start line as a marker ;-)

    Tidy session that though.

    In the spirit of doing nothing but easyish runs, I'll be out for a lunchtime bimble with one of the guys from the work jogging club today, so probably around 6M at 8mM pace.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Different with 1k reps innit, different start and finish from rep to rep the way i do them.

    Try 8miles at 6mm just for some giggles :)
  • Hi All

    Classic short report as work is manic and bloody CQC are coming in December so obviously we need to send them info TODAY!! (arseholes).

    So Alchester 5k. Decent weather, started off in 4th - my mate Elliott from LBAC, and a  Soton AC slightly in front, me running with a Vale of Aylesbury runner. Slightly uphill 1st K in about 3.05. Can't remember the 2nd K split, still going OK. Sadly the path from 2.5-3.5k turned into a potholy track which slowed us and when we had got back to the road at 3.5 k the VOA guy moved away. Legs felt a bit tired along the road back to the start, ended up 4th in 16.07. Soton guy won in about 15.31, Elliott in 15.37, VOA in 15.57. Bit miffed to be over 16, but on a better course I would have sneaked it. Got 1st V40 and a box of celebrations.

    Needed them as I had gone a warm down with a few of the Oxford city guys and was a bit wobbly! Pleased to beat a few that folk might know - James Bolton, Aaron Burgess etc, so not too bad all in all.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Another good one Simon, you definitely have the best knack on the thread for being able to smash our repeated races!

    Sounds a bit of a dodgy course too!


    Noticed my spreadsheet didn't have the splits for the last time I did the 5x1k session in late March, so had to plough back through to find it!

    Back then it seemed I averaged 80sec laps or slightly under, so 3.20 for 5!

    So today's 3.24 average is a chunk down.

    The difference? Clearly cruising in at this session after a couple of mixed weeks without track didn't help.
    Last time I worked through the session plan, and that was session number 9!

    The first 8 sessions don't see you above 800m reps.

    Most likely had the peak around that late March/April time, but still got a few good 5ks off later on.

    Still hope to get a couple more in before autumn draws in. Depends on football draws.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Pretty much spot on with my guesstimate - 6.3M at 8:01 pace! 

    Nicely done Simon. Wish I could be miffed with a 16:07 5k :-)


  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Solid enough 5k there SC. Cant fault a box of celebrations to boot. 

    CC82, marathon training with one child is difficult but two. :tired_face:
    I'd also massively struggle doing any sort of quality on a weekday morning run. I'm good for 7.30s at best on a mon to Friday morning. Still a 20 in the bank even though the fade. That could be due to being tired in general and might not be an indication of not being in sub 2.50 shape. One run doesn't paint the whole picture. 

    Nice shuffling Bus. Is that 6 miles include about a 1000ft of ascent on the local fells though? 

    If you'd already set your stall out at for a pace and not killed yourself SG then that's a good session.

    Crap day followed by a right slog of a run tonight. Some whopper decided to open his door onto my van this afternoon. No problem with that but he then thought it'd be funny to try and make a joke that he couldn't open his door fully so started scraping his van door (a company rust bucket) against my van. 

    Went from 'what the fuck have you just done that for you clown?' 
    To him trying to get past the site manager to me after it got a bit heated. Haha. He's about twice my size and although I normally get on with him I had a run in with him a couple of years back which ended with me telling our boss at the time that he'll be wearing my lump hammer. 

    Anyway an adrenaline fuelled 3 x 3 miles off 4 mins. An SG special of rampaging round town but every fecking turn was a brutal headwind. My usual stretch on the canal is closed hence the tour of the town. Had to work far too hard and prob averaged 5.45 or just under over the 3 efforts. 
    Up to now I've 8 x 1200 tomorrow which should be a hoot for another back to back day session. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    3x3miles at a wind reduced 5.45. Probably quite tough to find somewhere safe enough to do it for one challenge, and pace another!

    Problem with the track v road conundrum is often down to safety versus mental stimulation. I loved rampaging across town, everyone thinking "who's this legend" (or something else ;-) ), but the risk of getting smashed by vehicles, people, cycles all sorts is very real. How the heck I ever got a 4mile at HMP off across town i don't know. Or the even riskier, 2 miles 5k pace across town!

    10 today, less soul destroying then on a Wednesday. Felt a bit delirious for the first mile or 2, but soon settled. Threw some random wood in midway, which slowed things, as you get tempted to follow minor paths, and then are stuffed when they either stop abruptly, or are completely untended to, with stingers and twigs all over the place. At one stage i had to stop and clamber over a tree.

    Seting off at 7.48 for a 1hr 10 paced run was always going to be a bit cheeky to get to my desk for 9am! Let alone with woods thrown in.

    7.03 pace in the end, and "close" (coughs) to 9am post stretches and shower!
    Done for the day!
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