Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Nice record there Bus. I don't think I ever got under 1hr 24. Yes, I tended to do the 10k most years once they brought that in, but still. 

    Battersea Park 5k last night, 7th 5k since Mid May, and 19th race of 2018, matching 2017's total, just over half way through the year :)

    To be filed as a "solid" efforr rather than the excellent one 5-6 weeks back, but always enjoyable to turn out (afterwards!)

    Let's have a lil report
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Had pencilled all the Battersea Park races in, I think there are 6 and 1 3x1mile relay to choose from.
    Definitely wanted to get a couple in, after doing none last year.

    Therefore, grabbed Sid from the club, and we wheeled off there. Stupidly early arrival again, at 5.20ish, and had to hang on until 5.50ish to sign in.

    Having a little jog around, every so often we'd be under trees and think, conditions are lovely today, then quickly come back out into an opening and get the full heat :) 
    It was hot last time I remembered.

    Last hour whisked by, 1.75miles warm up banked and to the start line.
    Last time, my 16.56 was 29th. I'd made the mistake of looking at the last event, and 17.00 dead was 7th! Top 7 get medals!

    However, any "glory" idea was quickly reduced when noticing quite a few fast looking types about.
    Jamie from DT2 (where is he these days?) club Clapham was about. One of these runner buds I see what they're up to on FB and Strava week in week out, but haven't seen in the flesh for about 10 years! Blagger talk is out, and he's talking 17.30. No chance son!

    Despite telling myself i'd start not at the far right this time, I started in exactly the same spot!

    Organiser helpfully says something about how "if you're Australian, conditions will suit you, if not,  good luck"

    Off we go, seems a tonneload of people in front. I feel like I'm going off at the right level, not too crazy but ok. Overtake a few people. Get ahead of Jamie before the bandstand.

    Past the 3k marker laid out for the 2nd lap, wishing we were there already!

    Up to 1km, the acid test..what's the pace. Last time out I went through in a very sharp 3.15.

    3.24 today! Heck. That's my 17/sub 17 threshhold to the limit already I think.

    Maybe i'm doing it the even splits way today, for erm..the first time in...ever!

    We crack on, second km up at 3.25. Not too bad, kept it consistent. 
    Past the finish, wishing it was for real :)

    Second loop, 3rd km is up in 3.26, losing a second a km, but not too bad, a big last km might still get me sub 17 I think.

    It's a lot more humid than I'd realised earlier. That tends to get hold of you more than heat I feel.

    Jamie is a bit ahead now. Every so often some Australian fella on a bike is shouting tips to him.
    I'm starting to feel like offering him a few "tips" myself. Like rucking off.

    Fourth km is the one that ends up killing the sub 17 dream, by quite a way, despite not especially feeling a big drop off.
    A guy ahead is breathing very rapidly, in a manner I can only describe as a mixture of a guy "enjoying" himself in a very personal way, mixed with the women Wimbledon players after a hefty hit.

    Can't take it anymore, so monster ahead of him, just to not hear him anymore.

    4th km up, 3.34! What the heck is this son?

    It feels alright, not any sort of noticable meltdown, but I keep on going, knowing any sort of time to match the last one has long gone.

    A km is quite a nice short distance at times, and I'm glad to turn a couple of bends and see the finish.
    Having overtaken the leading woman in the 4th km, I watch Jamie over the line from a distance, and then I'm over for a 3.22 last km in

    17:14

    I then cheer Sid in to just get an 18:xx with a 18:59. He was probably after 1840 or so in fairness, so a similar result to mine really.

    Therefore, a solid one.
    Maybe 63.5miles, a 12miler on Sunday and 2 sessions was too stacked a week for it.
    Maybe the conditions were harder than last time, or maybe I just didn't get going hard enough at the start.
    Before the last one, I'd done that Marlow "5k" 16.51 and was determined to see what a full 5k would come out as - so maybe there was some more focus there.

    Who knows, we'll go again soon :)
  • Nice report SG - Was pretty humid last night, look at the weather now - cooled quite a lot, which is typical, but there you go..still a decent time in the conditions.

    I did the canal again this morning, but about 13 x 60 secs this time with 60 secs recovery

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Humidity won't have helped, but then neither will a dozen miles on Sunday! Still, as you say, a solid performance though. Tempted to give it a whirl next week.

    Double day today, with 7.5M early doors in relatively cool conditions.
  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:

    It feels alright, not any sort of noticable meltdown, but I keep on going, knowing any sort of time to match the last one has long gone.


    Like you say SG, a solid run but reading your reports it comes across that there's a shed load still in the tank. Reminds me of my parkruns, as a good effort for me usually ends up a touch faster than HMP. 
    My last 5k though I was on my absolute limit at 3k. My legs were bouncing and buckling over the last mile and I was in a heap at the finish. 
    I really think you could smash your pb to bits as your track paces are similar to mine. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Probably a rep hero :)
    Try and keep it together for longer and its a different game.

    Although this course, tapered, not on a hot humid day was the acid test.

    I think the "limiting" factor is always the breathing. I can't remember the last time I felt it legs wise. Maybe when trying to do 300 or 400s at the top zone.

    There's a chance that subconsciously there's still a remnant from the problems years ago_ so when i "feel" the breathing ease it down when there's a bit more available. But will have another go soon.
    Need to get out harder next time, as that banked time keeps you engaged rather than having to make time later.

    I suppose the downside of lots of races is that a lot come out solid rather than those peak ones where youve built and tapered for.
  • I suppose the happy medium is what you have to aim for - I do lots of races, but do 'mini tapers' if there's a race I want to target. I would have probably just done 2 or 3 miles the day before the 5k, if anything.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Will reign it in before the next one. Although having said that, had done an 11 miler the morning before the 16.56.

    On another note, getting a bit of an ache in my right heel, mixed in with flashes of ache across the toes every so often.
    Am thinking it's following a tight calf, so will up those stretches, calf/achilles/back etc.
    Anyone had that sort of thing? Seems to be the heel at one point, rather than the sole of the foot.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Good race and report as usual SG.

    I don't go on 'banking time' myself, but I do believe in belting up to and beyond the hoped for average race pace, so long as I back off before a significant oxygen debt accumulates.

    The evidence from races I've done though, is that most race from the gun and keep going as fast as they dare until they are forced into a state of painful equilibrium.

    That's usually around ten minutes into the race. I suppose that's how long it takes for lactic acid to hit optimum levels.

    Training: My jogging ( 8/9 minute av) daily double figures is having the desired effect.
     
    There was a Strava segment which was about 5 minutes worth uphill. I hit that at a tempo which would usually get me blowing. But this time, nothing!

    A strange feeling going through the gears without undue effort, finishing and recovered in a instant.
    Missed the KOM by a few seconds, but not prepared to go nuts to top it.

    Once again the evidence of my  training is that day after day of miles at an effort akin to a warm down has a beneficial effect on the ability to run much faster if required.

    Also it's a lot more relaxing.

    Bus.

    My dad knew the challenges of landing a Spitfire, which due to the nose, meant landing blind to some extent.

    Technically, the plane was landed after a curved approach to get at least some view of the ground before putting it down.

    After borrowing the aircraft, he told me he spent a lot of time during the flight practicing his landing on clouds.

    It clearly worked. He put the plane down without a bump, and was met by the guy in charge of the airfield who declared, " I can see you've flown a lot of these. Best landing I've seen".

    Who was the old man to argue with that?

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    All quiet on the thread.

    It's like the calm before the storm.

    Choosing to run up a lot of hills (relative term) at the moment. Managed over 800 feet this morning with the limiting factor being that I'm reluctant to do much more than jog down.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Club relay last night, but with a race number on, so I guess if I count the 5x1km pairs relays as races, then no reason not to count this one?

    Teams of 4, all handicapped by some numbers bod. I'd used my BP 5k from Monday (rather than the faster one 5/6 weeks back), but still ended as the number 1 seed on paper... never a 100% science as some of the faster lads would have done their fastest recent time on a less than fast course etc...

    We all bottled the leg 1 face off, thinking some tactics might be better, in our gang they said fastest guy on leg 4. Plenty of people to overtake on the last leg someone said!

    So it's all off and rolling, a guy who narrowly beat me at Burnham 5k leads home leg 1. 8.21 apparently for the supposed 1.5mile course.

    Decent gap to 2nd, and so on, massive gap to my chap!
    Starting to get a sinking feeling about our chances of winning :)

    Gaps get bigger, but plenty of banter with 2 fast guys about how we're going to get our race on leg 4.

    That anxious wait where you're not quite sure what time you're going on, and the 2 fasties have their partners come in similarly, and they're off, down the road and out of sight.

    I'm wondering where my geezer is, as I've already given up hope of catching these 2. I'm not making up swathes on fast guys over 1.5miles!  Let alone the teams lead

    Anyway, my chap is in, I storm off.
    Bit of flat road for a bit, then some gravelly stuff. Saw a 5.00 average start us off, but eased to 5.20s.

    Round a bend, and it's trailly grassy stuff. No visibility of anyone ahead. Basically the reverse of the Datchet 5k route.
    Up a little 5metre climb, through some more grass, "through" a tree and jumping onto the pavement, and a mile has come up at 5.27.

    Now this is the fast bit, all smooth pavement, very slight down, so ramp it up.
    Round a tight bend, and the real run in to the waiting crowd. 
    Full beans once they are in sight, and it's up as 5.01 pace for the last 0.56miles, for a 

    8.18 for 1.56miles.

    Narrowly beat two chaps for the fastest lap, won some booze apparently, but I had to leave straight away to visit the wee lad James in hospital after his park run exertions last Sat! Took the card along, so hopefully a small bit of joy for him!

    In hindsight, the fastest guys should have all gone leg 1 to see if we could get a faster time. May have made it a tighter relay then the monster gaps in between!!

    Fun little low key thing though, and a F OFF today, hoping these weird little shoot/tingles into my toes disappear sharpish


  • Decent run there SG, sounds like you are goinh well.

    track last night 5x (400,300,200) 200 slow jog between sets and 80 secs between reps to keep them quick. the 400's were all 65/66, 300's 46 and the 200's were all just under 30, which was a nice confidence boost. Theres some footage of us finishing our 200m rep, might stick it on for a laugh if I can later.

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭
    Nice going SG. Would've been a good battle with you all on leg 1. 

    Tasty reps SC. I saw ian kimptons post on strava about him averaging sub 60 for his 400s. I might be late to the party but I just read the Mr Whiteman has retired. Was he down for any of the masters events you and Dean were doing? 

    Juggled my week about with a bit of a tempo on Monday (20 min tempo then roughly 300ft climb in about 0.2 of a mile) all on the fells so about 1500ft of climbing in the first 4 miles. 13.5 mile long run on Tuesday was a bit lumpy with 1000ft of hills at 6.50s. 
    Mad busy week at work meant I was absolutely bollocksed on Wednesday and as I sat off to the track last night I got called out to my brothers to do a bit of fault finding. Ended up doing 15 x 1min on the canal and barely broke HM pace for the efforts. Hip has been niggling over the last couple of weeks and I've no energy at the min. 

    A day on the beer in Chester today should sort that out :-D 
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭


    Matt, i think the reason above is why the 2 times olympian has retired  he has mere mortals near/ahead of him now ;)   

    mind you look at that PB ( his not mine as mine is only from masters and not when i was quicker in my youth)  but his is top 6 AT in GB.  the list of people ahead of him, Farah, cram, ovett, coe,  is eyeopening.  he is ahead of Peter Elliot, O'hare etc....  an outstanding athlete!

    great session Simon and tidy relay from SG.  need to read back as i spotted a photo of a trophy for someone...great stuff

    v happy after tuesdays session (500,700,300) off a paltry 30 secs at 1500 pace   10 min recovery then 5*300 of 60sec.  did them in the same time i did the week before i went to the euros in march and im only at week 4 so far.  So im happy i have the pace in there.  now to add some more!
  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Afternoon all. Not posted for a while, as I was at risk of expressing unearned opinions on the world cup.

    The usual good racing going on I see.  Well done on the trophy winning at Dinton Pete, also bear in mind the protein boost that you will have got from swallowing all the flies that congregate there on a summer evening.

    Decent middle distance exploits from Simon there.

    Good blast round Battersea SG, you can't be on the money with the times all the time.  It is also hard to crank out a quick 5K off a big week.  Well done on the fastest relay leg as well.

    Dean 'The Retirer' Richardson.  Nice!

    Simon, Dean, have you had a look at the entry lists for Malaga.  I got the shock of my life!  Six Kenyans in my 5000!  All under 14:30, and two of the bastards under 14 minutes! All told, my 15:25 is the 17th fastest declared time.  Might not even get in the A final!  And if I do, I could get bloody lapped!

    Down in Somerset last week for my hometown race, the Frome Half Marathon.  Very hilly course, and as always sweltering hot. Hoped I might be able to win it, but the race has the habit of attracting unexpected speed merchants.  Last year it was Andrew Davies just before he ran in the World Championships marathon, and three years ago former National XC champion Frank Tickner showed up, so no chickens can be counted.

    Race runs at the same time as a 5K and 10K, so various bods shot off like blue arsed flies, and I am hoping (as it turns out correctly) they are doing the 5K.  One of them turns out to be Frank's brother, himself former Southern XC champion, Ben Tickner.  When the 5K bends off, me and another bloke seem to be in the lead of both the half marathon and 10K.  Stays that way as we approach the point where the 10K splits off.  I think back to the announcement at the start that, due to the heat, people are welcome to run a shorter race than the one they entered.  It occurs to me that, if I put in a bit of a surge, the other chap might be tempted to just go and win the 10K, since we are in the lead of that as well.  I do, and he doesn't take the bait, but it turns out that my surge seems to be a decisive move anyway.  Now on my own, out in the country and my gap has widened significantly.  Have to keep chucking water all over me, so my vest keeps slapping my back like a drunken uncle.

    The hill back into Frome is an absolute killer (they time this and award a 'King of the Mountain'), but once I've got over that I am confident the win is mine.  Through the town centre and back uphill the other side weaving through 10K finishers, and across the line to take the win in 1:14:11.  Decent time for a hot and hilly race.  Except the announcer has missed me, and keeps saying that the half marathon leaders are probably in the town centre.  I wave my arms wildly and cry "I'm here!" but to no avail.  Anyway, fortunately he's not in charge of prizes.

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    Dachs - congrats on the froome va va voom win!   Regards the Kenyans I am willing to bet those are life time pb's not current form.  They might still be tasty but lets see!  I think kojo will be fierce competition and I notice the Belgium who I beat in a photo on the 1500 in Denmark is a sub 15 chap.  Plus a few others.  Make sure at declaration your are in the A race and then see what happens.  Lie if you have to about a recent sub 15.   This is the worlds and you are good enough to rub shoulders with the best. Don't do it in the B race.    Simon and I have an Algerian who is a 3.50 apparently.  I will hold judgement until the last 100m to see if that is true.  Often they are not.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Good races and reports Dachs and SG.
    World cup!
    Didn't care once the Germans had been dumped out.


    Calm before the storm, I said yesterday. Here it is.

    Wasn't quite expecting the events of 5:30am when the lad suddenly appeared, having been awoken by a swollen testicle.

    "I think it's twisted" he said!

    And so it turned out. A & E, and surgery under general anesthetic. 

    Seems there's more than one James in hospital right now (best wishes to him from me SG) At least he didn't have to have it (the gooley) removed.

    As ML mentioned in another sense, absolutely bollocksed.

    Missed my run as well, tch!
  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    "Awoken by a swollen testicle".

    The heading of the fifth chapter of my autobiography.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭
    Best wishes to your lad though Ric.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Ouch! Poor lad - hope he is OK Ric.

    Cracking win there Dachs. Do you now get the freedom of Frome?

    Strong stuff on the relay too SG.

    Double day today after a hilly 8 yesterday. Hip was pretty sore and I'm a hot and sweaty mess right now really feeling like the second run home tonight (not...)
  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Dean, I'd like to think that these Kenyans are talking up their times, but one of them is a former international XC runner and another is a former elite marathoner and brother of the great Catherine Ndereba.

    Mind you, just as well I'm not in the M35 1500 or steeplechase, as that features Ezekiel Kemboi, 2 x Olympic Champion, 4 x World Champion, probably the greatest steeplechaser of all time, who only retired from the top level after the world championship final last year.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Great win Dachs, very casual. Wasn't that long ago it seems that you were being beaten by this thread hero at Wokingham....or maybe that was a blooming long time ago now!

    Dean, Walt Whitman has done amazingly to stay in the game so long. You'd need to stay until about 65 to match his longevity!

    Ric, thanks for the good will, and same back. Hope that quite literal ballsache has been sorted and no further issues. I don't even want to think about how you twist one. Catching a bit of the skin in a zip yes, twisting, less so.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Ps glad tohear there's quality standards to this world champ and that its not all just blokes who arbitrarily passed a certain age out for a holiday :)
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Cheers Guys.

    He's been kept in for the night. Currently he's wearing a severe set of gruds, designed to keep his knackers in place.
    For some reason he didn't seem over keen on a bike ride on Sunday.

    Ever since I'd found out (in 1979) that it was possible to tangle one's gear, I've lived in a sort of dread it might happen to me. Close.

    How it happens? not sure. Maybe running around corners does it. I've heard that fast track runners are particularly prone to this.

    I might have imagined that last bit.

    Possibly  :worried:
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Hopefully improving by the day Ric.

    This time of year, especially this year's "humid the whole time" setting and without any "real" race targets lined up, has to be the hardest to motivate to get out for those long runs for me.

    To give a chance for a potential BP 5k tomorrow, I kept the length down this week to a 10miler, to be a mere 52.5mile week.

    Body is deciding if it wants to bring on a proper niggle or not, with tight calves, hamstring and a spot on the heel that I can feel, so that and the humidity were tough work.


    Spotted some insane work on strava. Our own Matt was one, but even more madcap was an ex Dasher Tom who seems to have done a 25mile run at average of 6.12! Incredible.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Cheers SG. He's got to be careful for a few weeks, but at least there's nothing else he has to do.
    Seems the odds of getting afflicted are 1 in 4000 with the usual age span between 10 and 19 years. 

    Training wise he's out of the picture for a while. Not running though, cycling is really his thing.

    I did 36 miles on the bike today averaging 19.1mph, which follows the 16 mile run I did yesterday. Four other runs of 10 miles during the week.

    On the subject of developing niggles. Last year I went through a phase of running at a fairly strong average pace and ended up injured. It wasn't really forcing the pace but it sure wasn't at a speed I could chat at. It didn't achieve much.

    At the moment I avoid the pace range from 6:30 to 7:45 min miles. 
    I can run in this pace range. And I'll be tired at these paces, but going there won't make me any faster than I already am.

    Too fast for one thing, not fast enough for another.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    That's big miles Ric - both bike and running.

    Just 12 for me today, tagged along by my lad on his MTB, so lots of breaks at the top of hills for me to catch my breath :smile:  Made for a nice round 50 for the week, but not really sure why I'm bothering to be honest - no races planned, and no ability to race at anything other than mediocre. If the left leg worked as well as the right one it would be a different matter!

    Saw Matt's Sunday run on Strava - about the same pace as mine, but just happened to be twice the distance and 5 x the climbing!!! Very impressive!
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Usual excellent levels of training going on then; Ric (hope your son is on the mend too), Dean, Bus, SG, Simon and Matt all to the fore. Not much racing going on though (you've mostly got too much sense I guess in this heat) but big congrats to Dachs for that 1/2 win in an extremely impressive 74'xx for a hilly course, in the current heat and with little company in the race. 

    Traditional style 5k/10k racing weekend for me but I think I am finally getting past it for these. Yesterday was good; went to Woodley parkrun (Dachs' local which SG thinks is all downhill!) and ran my best pr for ages clocking 18'19 for 5th. Finally felt running was coming together again and actually reasonably consistent paces for once (5'58, 6'02, 6'03 for the 3 laps then a bit for the run in). So onto Elmbridge 10k today with the clear aim of getting back to the 38'xx territory which I should be capable of, especially off that parkrun time. However it was hot and humid, the legs had little in them after 100% effort yesterday and the course measured a stupidly long 10.13k. They started and finished it this year on a running track but the extra 70 or so metres each way did not seem to have been taken off anywhere else! So won't dwell on the race as it was a bit of a let down; did just about do sub 39 by the time my Garmin hit 10k but by finish was 39'21. That after being about 18'50 at 5k showed the slowdown in the 2nd half where av per k dropped from 3'46 to about 4'00. Just don't think I have much endurance at all at the moment and the extra distance and general knackerdness from yesterday didn't help :(

    Was strange racing in Surrey; though living in that county (albeit right on the Berks border, and only for 1 more year if the boundary commission have their way) I almost always race Berks way (including our club mixing with all the Berks lot in TVXC) and am used to seeing the usual faces from Datchet, Bracknell, Reading etc. None of those today; all Stragglers, Collingwood, 26.2 Road Runners etc. mostly clubs I know nothing about or no-one from (+ Scott Overall who won it in 30'xx :)). Think it was a Surrey Road league race or something; standard was certainly extremely high and didn't even finish top 10%. 

    So not sure where to turn next; should try finding another fast 10k which is actually measured properly to at least get back to 38'xx, but a bit fed up now after cocking up Staines and finding Wargrave too hilly. Guess a break from racing till September is best and wait for it to cool down is the sensible option.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Pete, thanks for that. The lad has passed the point of discomfort. There ought not be any subsequent problems. He has a tendency to stick strictly to the rule book in everything. Which is a bit unusual for a 21 year old.

    And well done on the back to back races (run).

    I think it's a bit much hoping for a comparative race performance based on a gut buster the previous day. Then again, I may be unaware of a post race recovery plan you have.

    I did as much when I took part in events that had races on consecutive days. While everyone else was loafing around and yapping after the first race, I was straight on to the hydration and refueling, especially the protein.

    Made all the difference.

    One event (20 years back) had me nail 13.5 miles in 1:17:30 on day one and a 61 min 10.5 miles the next.
    I wasn't even fastest on either leg. That was a guy who had once won the London Marathon. 

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    I'm probably at Battersea tonight SG, so come along.  I won't be running at my best having done a track session Friday and a 15 on Saturday, but a good hearty effort should help towards the 5K training.

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