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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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I tend to be an individual soldier of fortune.
Sub 1.15 is quite some target for 40-49 year olds. And i don't think 100 peeps in the whole country is a lot at all.
Ten mins sway if you can sneak into the 50 is so much easier.
Not sure how many years you have for that wool? Probably quite a few.
Yes SG - I know it's pretty swift, but I know what some of the mental half times the old boys do.
My mate pointed out that it's the day after the national xc in Leeds, perhaps why they are doing some free entries. It tends to attract quite a lot of club runners, so I suppose quite a few may be doing the national.
Compared to Tuesday this looked a comfortable one, but it's fairly deceptive and still takes a decent effort.
35, 3x36
3.21,3.20,3.21
72-74
All ahead of target, which is probably why it felt like working decently!
Simon - got to love a free entry. I think I've only ever had two. GSR through DT2, and blagging the Reading place that year. £80s worth just in those two!
edited!
For instance, I did a lot of 6.5milers at what he called MP, but what I know refer to as "adjusted threshold" pace ( I didn't know that threshold adjusts on length of run) - so the paces of such runs aren't too different.
Those runs then developed to throw in bits and pieces of HMP, before developing into reps at just that pace.
It's the working at the threshold rep pace (5.50-5.52) so massively that is the main difference.
With this block, I actually started off with what I'd have classed a peak HMP pre race session, stuff like 3x2miles HMP.
It then grew to absolute monster sessions like 4x2miles which was beyond what I've ever done, and that colossal one on Tuesday of 20-15-10-5mins - around 8.5miles at a pace quicker than I did my last half!
The interesting thing though is the Moz approach built over weeks progressively, whereas this plan has runs thrown in like 40mins at 6.06 (well it came out 6.02 ish) that would have come at the start of the Moz plan.
Interesting to see the difference.
The lack of a "long" run, capped at 12, no doubles, and capping at 50miles feels very different.
I think (although I could be wrong, as I don't have the book to hand) that there are Daniels plans that go above 50 mpw but perhaps it is sensible to start a different training approach with a slightly reduced mileage while you adapt to it? I've lost track, are you targeting 10k or a HM?
You must feel fresher when you approach the sessions now, without the doubles or extra easy/long run mileage?
I like the concept of threshold pace varying slightly depending on distance of the session/reps - when you think about it, it makes sense that doing say 4 miles at the same perceived effort level as 4x1 mile would have you running slightly slower in the first session than the second.
I do find the sessions where he mixes in T running and then shorter faster reps at the end quite tough psychologically, but again it does prepare you for picking things up at the end of a race.
The one session or even rep i didn't hit (not a lap within a long rep - that can happen but doesn't matter as long as the rep is on course) was the one that needed a 2.28 800m in the middle of the sesh!
There's 200s at 37 and 400s at 75 but like today they can be drilled ahead of pace.
But a 2.28 as a rep is one hell of an effort (for me) generally let alone mid sesh!
Daniels marathon plans go up to 120 mpw iirc. The ’elite’ plans are vicious but if you really want tough then read Richard Neurerkar’s book. I can’t have spelt that correctly.
5 years for me to to get the sub 50 sub 75 SG. Unlikely 😀!
SG, you must be good for a long race. But not silly long if you catch my drift?
Down at Charing Cross Hospital today for a NM Ga68 DOTATATE whole body PET CT . Apparently it's really expensive.
I was informed I'd be giving off radiation for about five hours after getting the gear pumped in. No problem with that. Got home and to prove how ill I am, went out and did a 35 mile blast on the bike.
A run tomorrow is in order.
🙂
Can't remember the last time i did a datchet session. You quickly fall in and out of club habit i find..plenty of time.for that in other bits of year.
Yep ric. 10-13.1miles is long enough for me. Although i am slightly intrigued by any gains training for longer could bring.
Scan read your post as you donating your body for one secondl! Hope all is well
🙂
I've examples of training for international athletes who operate in this area. However, I also hear that they do this on account of being talented!
It's 'they do 120mpw because they are talented. You don't have to do 120mpw because you are not'.
So why do they do 120 mpw if they are talented? or do they do it as some sort of penance or punishment?
Or more to the point, on that basis why the hell train at all?
🙂
I note a couple of chaps at our club who did good personal times at the Windsor half, are singing the praises of some new pair of £200 Nike Vaporflys. Wool - do you use those as well?
I had a look at the weight, 7oz. Sounds light. Checked what I run in - Brooks Hyperion, and mine I think are similar if not slightly less.
So are these shoes wonder shoes, or are the chaps under estimating their recent training?
On another note, an F OFF, but it feels quite strange still having today off, knowing a big sesh is coming up Saturday morning.
However, if you're trying to do 3 sessions and a longer run, its the only way that sensibly makes sense, unless you go Mon-Wed-Fri, which has other draw backs.
Tomorrow is 4x1mile Threshold (3mins), 6x200m (200m jog), 2mile progression from about 1.55 a lap to 1.20, 5 sec faster every 400m.
Should be good.
SG - I've had folk who I usually beat really close in road races wearing the Nike 'Clown shoes'. Fair play to them, but I'm not paying that much for trainers, it's ridiculous.
I suppose it grates a little that there are tangible benefits for being able to spend that much on trainers but that's the way it is. I'm still not 100% sure about my Saucony A8 and I don't they are the perfect flats for me, but I'm going to have to wear them tomorrow at Sutton Pk and struggle round
Ric - Had a quick google of what you are having - hope it goes ok.
If the weight isn't lighter, what gives the boost?
But yes, £200 for perhaps 150miles is a bit excessive. It would literally be fitting the description "racers" and you certainly wouldn't be messing around using them for tempos!
As well as being a bit scared if the conditions were slightly wet.
That's a big session again SG. I am looking forward to seeing the results at GSR.
Yesterday I realised why SG does his tempos at the track! Didn't have chance to get to any of my usual flat tempo routes so had to do it around an undulating 3m loop, the best I could find to avoid road crossings! Ran to effort as I didn't want to trash myself 2 and a half weeks before Abingdon and so soon after Sundays half.
Quickly realised I wasn't going to hit my usual paces so focused on maintaining the same effort & HR. Ended up with 6.37/169BPM for the first 3 miles and then 6.42/167BPM for the 2nd set. Pleased to get that one ticked off!
Yes, I have the clown shoes, several pairs of them. I save up the housekeeping that my wife passes on to me to buy the things I want and I have few other vices. I actually got my latest pair when I got home last evening. Crimson / pink. Lovely.
It's not so much the weight SG, it's the propulsion mechanism. You can google around for yourself and there is a lot of evidence that there is a benefit from carbon plate along the sole. They feel like nothing else and the snap is noticeable. It's good to have a strong group of non-believers knocking around as it makes the cheats like me feel better about themselves! I've got one pair with close to 200 miles on them with no obvious issues / damage. Heel strikers destroy them much, much quicker though....
I am intrigued by the vaporfly's but not at £200! I recently started using the On Cloud X's for sessions and racing and I've been really impressed.
Yes Reg running to effort rather than smashing myself chasing target paces is definitely something I have learned in the last few months. I like Kipchoge's mindset of never giving more than 90% in training, save that for raceday
Nike's fastest, most efficient marathon shoe just keeps winning everything in sight, as Shalane Flanagan (New York), Galen Rupp (Chicago), Edna Kiplagat (Boston) and Eliud Kipchoge (London, Berlin, Breaking2), can attest. With its ultralight, uber-responsive ZoomX foam and a carbon-fibre plate that feels like it's propelling you forwards, the VaporFly 4% is ready to push you to victories both large and small.
i know people who wear them and they say they are good. i wear the ones below these the zoomfly. they are good too. just not as good.
its all relative though...i bought some new spikes for track the nike victory elite 2. they were about £130 ish. pretty much the best spikes nike make for middle distance . firm carbon plate. latest model and colour. i probably wont get 30miles out of them....were they worth the money? probably not....but small gains needed for the big races. if i was a piss head the amount of money i would burn through a weekend makes such purchases seem cheap. what i spend on running a yr would be significantly less than if i was always on the lash.
Nice one stevie w. Certainly a good.skill to learn to work hard in less than ideal settings!
Will monitor Wool and the other chaps performances then. Someone on a different thread years back said I was the type who would explore anything for a performance gain! But i'd have to weight that up versus my natural tightitudinousness!
I suppose if you start wearing those shoes you have to keep wearing them, as otherwise you'll lose that little extra?
And if they were so definitely faster, every elite would wear them.?
well, you can't if you're sponsored by Adidas but every other elite seems to!
Don't monitor me going forward. I've broken every PB since I started wearing them. Sure, I've trained better too but with age against me there's likely not too much upside from here.
However, you three boys aren't the perfect science experiment.
You have had your best year ever - going great guns.
Wayne has gone sub 18 for 5k recently, so his pb (1.24 ish?) had some sway for sure - the triathlon aspect has maybe reduced his conversion a bit, but just from strava I saw he'd upped the ante - and has been rewarded!
Chris has one hell of a potential I think. If he took it as keen as some of us boys on here, I think he'd be very front of field at decent sized races material.
I strongly suspect that you chaps are all going really well at the moment, and have just had good runs, and the actual shoe effect isn't the real story here.
like I said, having a group of naysayers makes me feel better and makes it less likely that they will get banned (I think the risk there is decreasing now).
BUT....I'd urge you to try a pair and decide for yourself.
Or wait until Jill runs ca 2:50 in Dublin in the pair I persuaded her to buy!
I did run it past a bud who sells trainers for a living. He says they are a quality shoe, but more for the real top guys, ie, designed for the 4.40 pacing. The quicker you are, the more "rebound" from the plate.
And while the world record WAS broken in them recently, it was potentially the best distance runner of all time who has been building up to this for a while.
Even Jill won't be a fair comparison. She has a 1hr 19 half and a 28.48 5miler, yet a 2hr 57 pb.
Now I'm the last person to say a marathon "Isn't quick enough", when I wouldn't dream of doing one, and it's obvo the distance something can easily go wrong...etcetc
But she has some very definite sway in that 2.57 for certain, whatever shoes are used. She's trained really hard for a fair time. I even noticed pre the other marathon she recently did she actually changed the P&D sesh of 5x1200 at 5k pace to a 5x1600 !
Our own Lit did a 2hr 52 marathon off a 1hr 21 half, and a minute slower 5miler.
So if Jill batters that 2.57 I'd again say it's overdue, rather than it necessarily being "The shoes"
However, food for thought.