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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Vapour Fly 4%'s? It'll be interesting to see how much difference these make to race times.
Adding up. Mileage wise - going ok. 19 miles yesterday, bits of road, hills, mud (liquid in one place) all sorts really. Average pace 8:45's. 82 miles this week plus whatever I end up with today.
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Reg, cracking first week's training. Split tempos are tricky, in my experience, trying to keep the effort honest in the first part. Regarding your split long run, I don't think there's much problem in a short 20-30min break - the benefits will still be had. Perhaps an extra mile added to the end to compensate if you do feel it makes a difference?
Good weeks mileage Ric.
Brilliant pacing on the marathon Joe, enjoyed your blog report!
Good couple of weeks for me, since the 5mi race.
Last week was 35mi, up from just under 31mi, including an 11mi long run and a 5.7mi steady at 7:11/mi. This week is 36.7mi, 11.7mi long run, and a 6.5mi steady this morning at 6:47/mi.
The wind down here has been an absolute ball-ache the last few days, expecting a tailwind for the return leg of an out-and-back after suffering a massive headwind, only to get a crosswind or another headwind!
Really pleased with how today's steady turned out - nearly the same pace as the 5mi race, on a hillier route with the strong winds, and with a lower HR, for 1.5mi longer!
Plan is to slowly creep the weeks up to 40mi and hold for 6 or so weeks. I'll think about adding in proper sessions after Christmas, too.
5km race next weekend near my parents, so gonna see how I fare at that as a marker going into winter. No real taper, but just easy mileage this week.
That's big miles Ric. What's in the pipeline?
Reg - what's the deal with Zwift? How much a month is it and is it worth it? As far as I can tell I just need a smart turbo trainer, which you can get for £115 plus whatever Zwift costs.
That's incredible mileage Ric, do you see that as a realistic level to keep to, or are you just having a few weeks just trialling it?
I crept the week's miles up to a nice round number, which if we're honest always feels more pleasing - 40
Went out for "10 minimum" and just got near home on that and thought i'd a bit extra, and before we knew it, a 13miler today - which we all know is the minimum for a "Long" run
7.22 average in the end. Legs still feel a bit tired, and the first 3-4 miles were into wind that felt hard work even working in the 7.30-7.40s. Eventually got going though.
Will use this week as a week to bed the top mileage in again, and we'll see what sessions feel right.
Ticking over there Matt - good luck with the race.
Wind is almost always a ball ache. As I was sloping around today, I was thinking I really wouldn't want to be racing in those conditions with legs feeling half awake. That'd be a world of pain!
Stevie, the point about HR is not necessarly to work off it (though I would advocate that too), but to measure it to get a gauge on whether pulverising yourself week in week out is actually improving your aerobic fitness. And to look at heart rate variability to gauge recovery and help in scheduling the sessions.
I felt a bit sorry for you in your xc disappointment. It’s really no measure of anything other than shoe grip and for want of a better word, lunacy, to me at times. I don’t get near many people that are a distance off me on the roads. Horses for courses and all that but lankers like me are all over the shop over mud, so I do sympathise but I ignore the outcomes completely.
Clearly you’re highly invested in this but a 2.5 day break made me laugh. I have one of those pretty much every 3 weeks or so ! Not always on purpose I hasten to add. What do you do on a cutdown week ? How often do you stick them in ? Anyway hope you don’t mind me asking as it feels a bit unfair and almost implicitly critical especially when you are laying your training and feelings on it that openly on here.
You won’t regret the shoes. You will feel very strange in them at first though.
Amazing going Ric !
Likewise Reg, tough to just hit the threshold stuff off nothing much (mind you, you’ve had the bike stuff going on). On the split runs, I do a lot myself due to time pressures, and I think it works well for easy running. In my experience, you can get away without serious long runs for a bit replacing them with split runs, especially if you’ve done the base thing at some point in a previous cycle and accumulated some good long runs during that. Also the weekend long slow run is somewhat redundant if you are doing good volumes of easy runs in the week, and being light on sessions (as I am). I add in marathon pace sections to my long runs pretty much all the time, as I know they are generally not going to be as long as ‘plans’ and conventional wisdom suggests they should be.
Dating. It’s difficult when you’re young, never mind at 48. Or maybe I just never had it. I’ll draw a veil over my infrequent mishaps (infrequent ‘cos skinny runners are not that appealing I’ve been told). I think I can get away with telling you a partially running related anecdote that occurred though: my date just returned from the loo, suddenly sniffing loudly opposite me. It took me a few moments to catch on but my first reaction (as a virus sensitive runner) was to ask if she had a cold...
Well done on the 50+ week Bus. I just scraped over a 50 mile week, with a 10m race this morning - with warm up and cooldown managed 14+ miles for the day, though the cooldown miles were comical bow legged hobbling mainly. Anyway the race went well considering how windy it was around the up and down course, with a 4th place and 1st v45 in 58.20 - an unexpected 6 second pb.
StevieWh - What race was that ? Jodie Stimpson won the ladies 5 mile race that was part of my race this morning. You weren’t by any chance doing that ? Noticed your mileage has dropped off recently ? Is that planned ?
So long as I keep the nutrition on the right side of the equation, I should be able to avoid accumulating fatigue.
As for speeding things up?
Today, after a protracted jog about (it was) I finished by picking up the pace. Without strain I went sub six minute pace along a muddy track. That'll do. The legs will respond if required. No need to wipe myself out proving the point.
Bus, No particular events lined up. But certain events may be looked at as things progress.
Read something about needing six weeks minimum on a training load 'ramp up' before the benefits stick.
To do that takes a certain mind set in which I was instructed forty years ago. That's the campaign mentality.
Basically, no individual item is valued in isolation, it's just part of a process. Only when the process is completed and one looks at the results, do you deem whether or not the campaign was a success.
Saves a lot of stress fretting about the occasional 'off' day.
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Muddy - I think we're all invested here old son -we're talking about it on a running forum and all do decent mileage!
Me jibber jabbering about it more than others doesn't necessarily mean I'm more serious than anyone else - some would say the opposite 
That's a very tidy 10mile result. When you're going well, and fit I found its such a nice distance, and feels much different to a half. One of 2019's aims is to have a better 10mile experience - one where by 6/7 miles you know you're having a good one and to just hold on, rather than dribble in
At least next time I "Only" have this year's GSR to go at, rather than the thankless task of trying to match 2012's monstered ones!
Moz used to put in a cutback every 4 weeks for me. I haven't really done that this year, as with so many races I've managed it along myself. I still work to his structure, but will tweak bits along. Stuff like if I've run with the club, which is about 40mins from home, so i'm only getting home just before 10pm, there's no way i'll follow that straight up with a medium long on the Wed morn.
But for long distance racing i'd like to see mid 60s in mileage in normal weeks, covering the tempo-medium long -reps at and quicker than target race(s) and a longer than usual LSR . Cutback would be about 50 and feel much smaller!
Am intrigued by everyone saying how these shoes will feel! However, all going well i'll have them in my hands (feet?) tomorrow. However, I won't be trying too soon. Need to feel 100% fresh again, and decide what's a sensible first turnout
Think the xc comments are harsh myself; I'd say it is a much more skilful sport than road running and tests areas like agility, race line reading, course craft etc, so far more than shoe grip! BTW SG don't let yourself believe you are not good at xc; couple of races last year, notably Woodley were brilliant for you and you took some big scalps.
Also expect my VF 4% tomorrow but no idea if/when/where to trial them. A girl runner wore them for Rushmoor pr on Sat
Stevie, the issue is maybe that the cutbacks have slipped. I know I tend to do these properly in a mileage building phase, but then once comfy at that mileage I want to keep that mileage going. But I think you still need to have them in ... and if you race more frequently I think you need more of a cutback than 60 to 50 ... I would drop 40 to 30 for example. I don’t mind dropping a pure easy week in - no sessions whatsoever - until I feel a bit of bounce coming back.
Ric - that sounds very inscrutable! Picking it up to sub six off-road with little effort is impressive too, though not surprising given your pedigree and recent mileage. How long can you hold it for will be the key...
Ta Pete, I think you need to be in good form to make the most of them. In over a decade of on and off doing these events I've probably only had a couple of series where I've consistently felt powerful and smashed them. Bus probably nailed it by saying very very rarely training offroad will not have helped!
I also think a string of tempos going well is the key to all of it, bar perhaps 5k series where you can probably get away with 2 reps sessions instead.
Can't believe someone would risk the Vaporflys on offroad stuff. Maybe she doesn't realise their top form miles are limited! Although I did read a guy online saying they're still good for parkruns and other races well beyond the 100-150mile limit. Still..I think I'll go super cautious for now. If I parkrun it'll be on some smooth tarmac dry course just to get them off and rolling!
Ric - time will tell. Hopefully it helps you build a monster base and get those hoped for races on the agenda in late spring. But maybe safer to go a bit less mileage to counter the past where you've gone big then gone zero for the same length of weeks?
First there's a hint that something is amiss, but nothing much - the sort of thing which nine times out of ten disappears in a couple of days - until one day it doesn't.
The bit which really messes the situation is having preconceived ideas and ambitions. It's that fixation with keeping a sequence going - or finishing that session regardless.
Well, I've dumped all of that. I just go out and walk jog to the end of the road. If I feel it's a no-go, I turn around and come home. Even if I run further, I have all sorts of short cuts and escape routes should I need to curtail matters.
I'm also running across all sorts of terrain. But I'm cautious over a lot of it. I don't blast down hills and if I feel like I'm working too hard going up one, I'll stop for a rest.
Yesterday I had that happen. But the HR was only doing 125 bpm at the time, so I incurred a small oxygen debt as it sped up. I didn't fancy the feeling so stopped. A few seconds later I went up as if the hill was nothing.
Bus, it was back in my fishing days when after something very difficult to catch. The chances of success on any given day (or night) were so slim as to be demotivating.
I fished Tring a lot. I went one winter, eight full days spread over two months without a single bite from anything. Everyone else had given up (lots of others involved). Then on day nine I got a result - a big result. The next time I went - I caught a record.
In between those catches I broadcast the news and results to the others. They all did well. I left them to it. I'd done my bit.
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Meanwhile, i feel like I'm pissing about trying to get back to things. Feels like a role reversal!
Hi All - Tight for time, but good training and excellent 10m time there Muddy - also seen a decent 10k for Dean at Telford too. I obviously do quite a bit of XC, but I don't see it as my best after track and road (actually don't do that many road races tbh).
I do quite a lot as I think they can help your general running and definitely help build strength. The only issue I have are the stupidly muddy ones, as it's not really running, just slogging - and I have been injured a few times by tweaking my knee through lateral movement in the lower leg.
So Saturday was the Southern masters xc champs in Oxford. Took a different way to get there, train to Euston, tube to Notting Hill Gate and then the Oxford tube bus to Headington where the missus picked me up (she was team managing there and left mine at 7.30...No way was I going that early.
Noticed Skinner wasn't there and knew Greenwood was injured - plus a couple of the Thames H&H I expected to be running weren't, so was a bit more hopeful of a team gold and to be higher up in the overall race. Simon Baines, who I ran with in Derry was there and he has been going really well lately.
Went off steady, around the first field, then a loop around by the side of the Horspath track and then there was a group of about four of us behind Baines as we went up the long stretch by the side of the field, through the small muddy path and into the woods for the hills. We had three to do this year - one more than last year, but not the full Chiltern league course. As we came back down the hills I had moved into second and I kept this place as we went through the flat wooded section which brought us to the field again to start the 2nd lap.
Managed to keep the gap to Simon at about 15m - unaware of the gap behind. The only real drama was a Thames guy, Martin, catching me at the top of the last hill, but by the time we were back into the flat woods I had gone past him again. So into the final kilometre I was still roughly 15 metres behind Simon, but couldn't get him, finishing 5 seconds behind him for 2nd place.
Really happy with the way the race went, close in the end to winning pretty major masters event. Sadly even though we have 3 in the top 8, we still lost to Thames in the team event..two shiny SEAA medals though so can't complain too much.
SG, why are you pissing about trying to get back to things? You should be trying to get to a different place, not the place you've always been.
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Just tried the magic shoes on. You can feel the power just walking a few yards.
Bouncy bouncy.
simon - nice medalling again and some tasty racing. Likewise Muddy over the 10m. Congrats
Ric going well too, judging by mileage and where you were not so long ago
Pete - agree XC is a skill, but so is road running, track, fells, hills etc. If the XC is firm under foot i can go well on it, once its boggy im a joke. like simon says it becomes a slog rather than about speed. also my attitude towards XC probably holds me back too
regards zwift - why not set a tv up and watch a film/comedy/netflix etc instead? im currently doing my treadmill stuff half way through World War Z with brad pitt. surprised at how good this is.
As simon said i did my temp check telford 10k to see how my fitness is going into the indoor track season. last yr before starting i got 32.36. i havent really targeted 10k other than the odd treadmill blast, instead trying to get fit. i did a 34.32 a fortnight ago (although that was hilly).
felt ok and decided to go try and get sub 33 but aim for a similar time as last yr. was rammed at the start. im back in about 140th or so. despite a 5.07 first mile. start trying to get past people but its wall after wall of people on a narrow path. get stuck behind a AFD 7 footer who was moving well but just couldnt get past. eventually did and had slowed to a 5.20. i speed up as i find im being stalked by a local runner who beat me by 30 secs at the last 10k and has beaten me on XC all season. 5.13.
a complete 180 hard turn round a cone and the path back had long sections under water. not ideal. slowed to 5.25 Try and get going again but im struggling and its a 5.27 and im still being stalked! 6th mile and i decide F##k this lets get on it. i wind it up and start overtaking loads. create a decent gap on my local rival. 5.13. Last 0.2 is in 4.17 pace so im moving very well for the sprint crossing the line in 32.29.
for 111th overall. the standard was obscene!
it was also a qualifier for the england masters 10k team. You have to finish top 3. as i was 2nd v45 it appears i have made the team also its 7th on the UK rankings this yr too. happy with that considering
The telford race has really taken runners away from other quality races. With a low 33's I could invariably have won the Christchurch 10k and Andy Reading 10k.
Vaporfly shoes feel bouncy and powerful just walking in them for 10metres. Very light but cushion sort of feel. Most bizarre.
Now just need to get fit enough to do them justice