Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited March 3
    Cheers Pete.
    XC was today after warming up with parkrun (5th WAVA of almost 500) in the new Adizero Tempo 9s & refuelling with a full Bristolian fry-up. Not sure of the team standings as results won't be up til tomorrow night earliest but I did enough to be 5th scorer & hold on to Bronze in the club XC champs for the 2nd year running. Not quite the Gold of 2016-17 (the inaugural year) but I've missed a few fixtures the last 2 years as the first fixtures of both leagues have been on the same day & the final Glos League has clashed with my HM plans. 
    Parking: navigator directed me to the Leisure Centre which had spaces = a doddle.
    5 minute walk up the hill to the race venue (Blaise Castle) in time to support the Ladies race.
    Team Management: Registered my 7 runners having seen the 5 who were likely to score for the team so administrative duties done, four of us jogged a lap as warm-up which was useful as although I've done the course several times they'd made an important alteration removing a tricky little stony U bend so definitely racing in spikes.
    Toilets: clean, queueless & plentiful paper :)
    Race: A slow start meant I was boxed in when the course narrowed. Managed to work my way through but probably expended too much energy surging. Once I'd found space from about 1K in I was running fluidly, feeling great up to 5K when I started to die up the 3rd (& steepest) climb on the 2nd of 3 laps not helped by being passed by a clubmate. It was only a shortish climb though & once over the top I was able to open out again & take advantage of gravity to gain a couple more places. As we started the 3rd lap I realised there were 2 guys just ahead I've not beaten all season so although I was hurting I kept hunting them down. Passed one with about 2K to go but couldn't quite get on terms with the other before THAT hill which once again proved my nemesis. By now I was feeling really fatigued & although I put everything in to the final K I was overtaken by maybe 4 or 5 runners. Finished feeling light-headed & slightly sick so guess I did what I could. Was a bit disappointed to have faded so badly after having felt so good in the middle of the race however Strava tells me I equalled my best pace in 5 times racing over the course.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Cheers for the comments SG, Pete.

    Only joking about the dodgy bit SG. When I won, I wasn't aware of any gates at all. The second occasion I think there was just one to get through.

    The winning prize was what appeared to be a nude bloke on a plinth. Second prize was a decent bottle of wine. Great!

    Good going Jools, though I'd say you're spreading yourself a bit thin if you want faster racing. A fry up as recovery from a parkrun that doesn't appear to slow you down indicates you're racing largely on fat rather than glycogen.

    The subject requires some study, but it's not appreciated how difficult it is to build up glycogen stores, which are burnt off so easily. And in many cases, carelessly.

    Worth about 5% extra speed when at optimum levels.

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Cheers Ric. I’m sure you’re right. I’d probably emptied the glycogen stores pretty thoroughly last weekend and undone any replenishment with Tuesday’s track session. I put the sudden crash from feeling great to struggling down to caffeine crash or glycogen exhaustion. As my main focus is on April’s marathon I’m happy to be metabolising fat more efficiently at the moment. I’ll be sure to taper for it as well. Once that’s out the way I’ll be looking to improve my speed over the shorter distances.
  • Matthew HeadMatthew Head ✭✭✭
    edited March 3
    Great race reports from Wokey, as well as the parkruns, 10k & mile Pete, XC Jools, and mile SG. Great result with the double gold Simon! Like StevieWh, I use HR as a gauge for easy running efforts, and don't pay too much attention during races.
    Brilliant race Joe, we knew you were sandbagging with your previous posts! Just goes to show how much scope you have with focused training. Hope the race today goes off without hitch.
    Good to see you managed to get round without much trouble Reg. Bus, great result for a race following a week in the Lakes! And of course Dachs, that race must be a big confidence boost when you come out in better form than you expect.

    Finished last week on 45mi again, with a long run that got increasingly tough due to an incoming cold. Planned a couple days off as woke up Monday headache-y, congested and a bit dizzy at times.
    We also got a puppy early in the week, and turns out he's a lot of effort :D so, I've not run at all this week, but will try to get an hour in later! Need to try to get back into routine.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Good luck racers.
    Bit wet out way.
    Did a 13.5miler. Felt a bit weary early doors for some reason but saw it out aided by the up out and down back basis to the route.

    First sub 7 average longun for ages. Funny old game.

    Welcome back matth.

    Ric. Jools is a turnout pro 😁
  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    PeteM, do you bump into Andy Green ever?

    https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=305776

    Seems to have similar race tactics, saw him last Tuesday at Hammersmith Handicap and he raced 18:25 Last Friday of the Month, [email protected] parkrun on Saturday, 10k Sunday, track session Tuesday and then handicap Tuesday. 

    Knee hurt a bit last night and could barely walk down the stairs so just did a 12 today. Must be sitting in the car and watching ballet yesterday that makes it hurt as clearly running is fine.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Sounds similar to mine Philip.

    Nice long runs chaps.

    Fine work on the parkrun warmup xc double Jools. Loving the big fry up recovery fuel......

    Had to take my son to rugby this morning, so looks like my long (ish) run will be a bit breezy as I'll be out the same time as the peak winds of storm Freya are due.....
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited March 3
    So a casual sub 90 half then SG B)
    Just over 20M along the Brecon canal today. Took it nice & steady after yesterday & finished strong: was able to push the pace a bit over the final 5K. Decent breakfast but no food en route & just 100ml of Lucozade Sport about 16 miles in. Completely soaked by incessant drizzle/rain but wind wasn't too bad most of the way & about 7 or 8 degrees so fine in T-shirt, shorts & gloves though my clubmate was equally happy in long sleeves & waterproof + gloves & buff. I say equally happy but he didn't have anything in the legs when I pushed the pace at the end.
    Big plate of sausage, spuds, fried onions & broccoli has just gone down a treat :)
    Typical now I'm home the sun's out!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Results are up for yesterday's XC & although we won our division again this meet we only managed to move up to 3rd place for the season so no promotion for us this year. Shame as our points total would've put us midway up the division above. Personally I finished 25th in the MV45+ class in spite of a horrific performance in December.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭


    You're not a worrier about putting in results on PO10 that aren't flat out efforts are you Jools :)

    Although a 20miler probably isn't one a lot race anyway!


    Saturday XC I don't really get to be honest as I've never done it. All divisions lumped in together job? Must be confusing, as if age categories aren't anyway.

    You surely don't have a clue what's what unless you have some very keen counter guy at the end ruling people out and recognising who is in what race?

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good work. Not the broccoli mind :wink:  Your powers of recovery are astounding Jools!

    Just over 10 miles of hills and mud for me just now. Legs like lead, so consequently very slow. Very wet to start, but the sun actually came out toward the end - though it was getting VERY windy!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Fair play for that time of run on a Sunday. I'm certainly well in doss mode by the afternoon and Monday morning's run never feels the freshest as it is!


    Phil, has anyone ever seen Andy and Pete in the same room?

  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Today wasn't a race, just a training run SG. My 20M race is in a fortnight.
    For Gwent League XC everyone races together & gets a finish position token. Time & club are recorded against position at the finish & then team manager (me) matches names & age categories to finish tokens then hands them in after the race in a special envelope. These are then collated by the results team to be published a day or 2 later.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited March 3


    I like the sound of the special envelope :)

    I remember the really polished team managers at our XC league had these little almost umbrella things setup over their clipboards. Whereas the more casual ones, would have some soggy bit of paper, and end up with indicipherable blobs :)

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Never come across this Andy guy Phil/SG. Seems to race a bit often; maybe Jooligan in disguise ;) Good run in that xc btw Jooligan and amazing you have the time and motivation to team manage too!

    No running for me today, just a badly planned 50k bike into the wind all the 2nd half. Felt harder than a HM and should have done one of the long runs needed pre Fleet instead.  
  • Good racing Jools - I know the Gwent league is massive, only the Chiltern League rivals it for runners all at one place at one time. PR would have been a bit down after all that racing Pete. Hope knees feeling better soon Bus and PMJ.

    Decent weekend - jogged round the new Dunstable Downs PR Saturday morning- literally in the clouds at 240m ASL, everybody hiding by the side of the visitor center before the start. We had a family run around in 31 mins, dcent 1 lap course, definitely worth a trip in the summer. Then did 16 x 60 secs along a nearby path for a session.

    Then off to London early yesterday to Brockwell park in Herne Hill for our 10K race, 150 entrants, so not a bad turn out. Its a 3 and a half lap course, with one quite steep rise of 200m, then another longer drag on each lap, annoyingly into the wind too, so the hills were a real drudge. Was in 4th for most of the way, with doing a session yesterday, didn't feel brilliant, and it was generally 3.30k's - hit halfway in 17.30. Coming down the slope on the last lap I managed to get up to the 3rd guy, but just couldn't hold him in the 400m into the wind at the finish...came in at 35.01 I think, for 4th..annoyingly the guy I was racing was a V40 also. But got a bottle of red for 1st team.

    Nice session in the pub after - always important as ever.

  • ioweriower ✭✭✭
    Hi all, dipping my toe back in after a lengthy absence (about a year it seems based on when my last read post was!). I've had a bit of a catch up over the last few pages and it seems I would have been in amongst some of you at Wokingham half - finished in 1:21:40 finally sorting out a well overdue PB from 6 years ago. (How's 10 minutes for a soft PB SG!)
    Running goals basically ended with Stubby 10k last year before moving to multi sport focus for the summer. It's taken a similar path this year with the added target of completing my first marathon - Manchester in a few weeks time. The half was a tester to see if sub 3 is actually slightly realistic and not just some mental pipe dream for a debut performance!
    Anyway, training is going ok, 20 @ 7:15 pace felt fine at the weekend despite the headwind all the way home.  Would be good to bump into some of you if you're staying locally! It's also the Mrs' first attempt at the distance though she's got a bit more of a buffer than me also aiming for GFA time of 3:45 (she ran 1:43 in Wokingham)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Top smash fest Iower. Every chance of getting that sub 3 if you keep it sensible first half. (I say having not run one!)

    20 at 7.15 sounds a pretty solid run especially if it's feeling fine! You can definitely find 20secs a mile on that when it matters, and then just a case of holding on a bit further

    (probs simplifying every so slightly)


    3 1/2 laps for a 10k Simon? Odd one. Sounds along the lines of Battersea Park. That is a 4 lapper, but as per the 5k, potentially 2 different ones?


    I fancy some sort of "Threshold/MP" job tomorrow. Will decide exactly what tomorrow, but one of these sort of mixer options,  3x10mins , 3x2miles , 3x1.5miles

  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    The usual massive weekend Jools !  Decent long run Stevie. Good mud fest Bus, and well done on the wine Simon. Iower, 7.15 is about where I pitch up for long slow and easy runs and I am a 2.50 marathoner.

    Newport half came in at 1.17.59 on chip for me, and 8th overall. It was all very soggy and towards the end, windy. Amusingly parked in an area called Little Turkey (I didn’t see any Turks or petite birds) but that had taken far too long to find so then I was all in a hurry and didn’t avail myself of a rub down with BodyGlide. Schoolboy error.

    I got soaked on the approximately mile jog to the start where the front pen wasn’t tightly packed and we were soon off. A load raced off - looked like 20 or 30 off up the road then I think we did a little loop through the city centre then lots of riverside running. I saw a castle and crossed umpteen bridges and did a little bit through some rat runs with moped blockers round the back of some houses. Then out of that into a nice swooping down section alongside a pond-y bit, then more riverside paths.

    I was running fairly conservatively for a half and wasn’t particularly suffering (apart from the chafing and a rib stitch around mile 5) so I was able to gradually move past people in the latter part of the race bringing us back to the city centre with the sound of the finish reaching us across the other side of the Severn. There was a big bridge with a long drag up to it looming near the end of mile 11 to get us back to that side.  Once that was done it was a meandering route past riverside apartments to the finish. I hadn’t so much as glanced at the watch throughout so it was good to see a 1.17 on the clock as I turned the corner for the last 200m. A quick burst got me in just under 1.18. Effort was slightly above marathon effort, which is about as much as I can generally get out when I don’t taper. Glad I did it in the end, as it showed fitness to be pretty decent and recovery has so far been good.

    Now I’ve got to crack on with the marathon stuff through March.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good work Muddy - doesn't sound the easiest conditions to go sub 78!

    Iower - that half time together with the solid 20 suggest all should be well for a sub as a debut as long as you taper well and don't do anything daft on the day!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Nicely done Muddy. What was your finish position in the end? Stalking the excellent photos from Rob Gale of Parc Bryn Bach you looked to be 9th towards the end. Although it was wet n blowy a lot of clubmates nailed decent PBs, 3 around the 80 mark, so conditions obviously weren't as bad as forecast.
    I certainly hope sub-3 is realistic off that HM time Iower. Assuming you've done plenty of other long runs that is. Hoping to go Sub3 at Brighton this year off 1:25:17 at Wokey. I converted a 1:28:40 into 3:02:19 there back in 2016.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Good one Muddy, and although you always think i'm being a little cheeky when I follow up your "mp" halfs with predictions on times, surely if a 1.18 is just above MP effort, in theory you'd be able to put in a sub 2hr 40 marathon? Not to write big cheques for you :)


    Went for a "track" version of the 3x10mins, so 6.5 laps instead of the 10mins to the dot.
    1.28 aim

    1 - 1.26x1, 1.27x3, 1.28x2  - 43sec
    2 - 1.27x2, 1.28x4 - 43sec
    3 - 1.26x2, 1.27x1, 1.28x2, 1.29x1 - 42sec

    Threw in 3x200 at 35 after, to do two things - put in some speed on post session legs, and make up for the 30secs per rep short of 10min on the 3 reps.


    Always an interesting zone is threshold - not "that" fast, but it builds up on you and you're always pleased to stop :)
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Nice & consistent there SG.
    9M fartlek averaging 7:28 for me this morning. Plan said 9M with 6x600m off 90s which I considered doing on the track but then decided I'd rather do something a bit less structured along the canal as it was such a beautiful morning - if a bit blowy. Ended up doing 7 efforts which varied in length from 480m to 950m & added up to 5.1K. Pace was shockingly poor especially in to the wind but the effort was there.
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    Stevie - Newport was 153 bpm, and I've ran marathons around 150 bpm. That equates to around 9s per mile slower pace over 13 miles, and I can easily drop another 10s per mile on average on the back half of the marathon when  fatigue and cramps set in. I don't convert well with marathons as I don't do enough medium longs and long runs.  It comes out at 2x my most recent half + 10 minutes generally.

    I'm doing a 20 miler in a fortnight. That will give a better idea - though won't be racing that all out either.

    Jools - 8th in the end.
  • Well done at Newport Muddy, sounds a very interesting route, good sessions from Jools and SG. SG - yes Brockwell isn't a massive park, so it's one small lap to start and then the three big ones. Certainly not a PB course.

    My session was out on the canal near work for 7.45am to beat the worst of the cycle traffic. Did the 30 x 35 secs version today, with 25 secs recovery...makes it easy to check on the stopwatch. Not an easy session with the amount of barriers on work going on the canal..was better 5 years ago when it was more derelict. Now there's student flats everywhere for all the kids of rich Chinese businessmen. Bit better than a crappy terraced house in Stoke that was my student experience (wouldn't have changed it for the world, obviously..)

  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Telford 10k entries opened today if anyone is interested. I believe it fills up fairly quickly. I've entered for some winter focus
  • ioweriower ✭✭✭
    Cheers for the sub3 reassurance everyone! Long run wise I've done 2x16, 1x18, 2x20 so far (the latter at essentially MP+ 0:30) and had planned 20, 22 and 18 over the next few weeks with some faster stuff towards the end of each. Would this be the best way to go about it or should I concentrate on just getting some 20+ runs in nearer 3 hours? Maybe with fuelling too?

    Pacing will be dictated by self-flagellation virtual partner on my watch. With this in mind, would 2:57 pace (6:45) be a wise target so I don't get caught out with any extra distance ran on the day/GPS error etc? I was thinking of writing the 5 mile split times on my hand so I can check against actual mile markers on the course as a backup.

    Nice steady half Muddy - must be pleasing to turn out that sort of result with no taper and not a full gas effort. Which marathon are you in for? My guesstimate for the marathon was 2xHM + 10 minutes aswell, fingers crossed that leaves me enough wiggle room!

    Bus - 2 week taper planned with the usual reduce-volume-maintain-some-intensity deal. I think I'm pretty pragmatic in the lead up to big races - not much you can do to get better in that time but lots you can do to get worse!

    Decent track sesh SG - I'm at the track every week but I always seem to struggle mentally with reps over a mile/1600 - much prefer doing this sort of thing on a mile-ish long road loop. Not as quick or measurable but always easier in my mind!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Nice miling SG/Pete & another handy half casually knocked out by Muddy. I only did a skim read but there's probably a race in there for SC and about 20 race for Jools. Iower, you must have come past me in the last few miles if you ran that time at Wokey.

    Post Wokingham I've done one recovery run and then nothing for almost a week as I've been in New York. Tried running today and the good news is the ankle is fine the bad news is that I am very unfit or severly jetlagged!


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    iower said:

    Bus - 2 week taper planned with the usual reduce-volume-maintain-some-intensity deal. I think I'm pretty pragmatic in the lead up to big races - not much you can do to get better in that time but lots you can do to get worse!


    Exactly! Though, I'd personally make that a 3 week taper for a marathon. Only thing I find I need to be careful of is to not put on weight in that period!

    Nice session SG, and decent Fartlekking Jools! 

    Off for a wee bimble myself in a mo after failing to get out earlier!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Saw some of the updates Reggie - looks a nice trip.
    (whenever I write "nice" I remember a right oddball teacher who hated the word "nice" (screwed his face up), and also "lovely". Luckily, he wasn't a nice or lovely chap, so neither can be applied to him.

    He pronounced "unknown", not as "unn-nohne" like everyone else, but instead favoured "un-no-ern".
    Absolute @*7%.

    Anyway...as you were.

    Oh yes, I only popped in to mention some guy who is always moaning about aching from gym work, chatting looudly earlier saying "oh it's running, running ruins your knees"

    Always an infuriating one. And seemingly comes from a few sedentary types jumping into it, doing too much/bad style/wrong gear, and wrongly equating their ensuing issues with the activity, rather than their general set up.

    It'd be like me jumping onto a bike wearing jeans and clogs and then blaming "cycling" for me smashing myself up
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