Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    forgot that one ric, classic samir.

    whilst he was a figure of fun...i believe he was in on the joke and played upto it most of the time. 
    He seemed a decent chap.
  • DeanR7 said:
    He seemed a decent chap.
    Agree, met him once and we had a nice chat and he was quite down to earth: very different to his online persona.

    If you look at e.g.

    https://www.runbritainrankings.com/rankings/rankinglist.aspx?event=parkrun&agegroup=U20&sex=M&year=2018

    then that shows parkruns for U20 men and 16:26 puts you 142nd on the list last year.

    #1 is Alex Yee, https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=663344

    Now there is a quality athlete who has gone to the darkside very young.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited March 19
    Reg Wand said:
    Strava really has no idea how many watts you laid down, unless you have a power meter, Ric?

    Surely Samir wasn't as good as Colin.
    The number is relative Reg. Even if erroneous. I just compare how many beans Strava gives me for any outing.

     I currently sod about on two bikes. One is a mountain bike with road tyres which weighs double the weight of the proper road bike. There's some sort of calculation going on to allow for this, but effort for effort, I get a bigger number on the heavier machine.

    I have no doubt the real power outage is incorrect. But the incorrectness of the actual number matters not since all I do is compare it to previous (incorrect) numbers.

    Last year I was on 140 - 170 (whatevers) Now I'm hitting 200 (thingys)

    I can see progress.

    Dean, I saw Samir run at Aldershot once in the relays. He appeared to be struggling and just plodding along. However, it was clearly relative compared to those around him.  I ran a blinder that day but he slaughtered the time I fielded by a lump plus.

    I remember another poster on RW, one Dave Falconer. He came on to the site and posted about 1000 times in his first week.

    Then he demonstrated to RW that their security was lax, so they barred him for his trouble.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Ric, it won't even provide a consistent comparison on the same bike. There are so many variables. temperature, air density, road quality, traffic levels, clothing, wind, tyre pressure, tyre width, helmet, body position, clothing.....

    Not doubting progress though, you'll still be able to notice a trend.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    I agree with SG - impossible to say where Samir could have got to if he'd persevered, but by any standards he went from idle boaster to be being pretty quick in a very short space of time so may have had something!

    Either way - it was fun while it lasted :smile:
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Reg Wand said:
    Ric, it won't even provide a consistent comparison on the same bike. There are so many variables. temperature, air density, road quality, traffic levels, clothing, wind, tyre pressure, tyre width, helmet, body position, clothing.....

    Not doubting progress though, you'll still be able to notice a trend.
    Variables are a factor, but for me, most of those are constants.

    The trend is upwards.

    Last October the average (number) of a set of ten rides was 145. The average of my last ten rides was 177.  

    I've done a lot of training this winter. Something had to change.
  • I'm not sure I was that much better though Dean :) I perhaps agree didn't fulfill potential. Interesting to hear about mileage clock though, I would probably say I've done less than 5000 miles "lifetime" with nothing really for 2+ years now 

    Samir and I had fun times with me losing it hugely at times. Can't believe it was that long ago ! 

    I'm not doing anything really fitness wise, had my biggest week of mileage for about a year 3 weeks ago at 17 miles and not done anything since. Topping scales at 90kg now 

    Generally got out once a week this year but dire. Saddens me but I love seeing how everyone else gets in races


    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • Don't worry Scotty - I'm sure it will come back at some point.

    Nice photo of Samir there, sad though that we don't have the relays there at Aldershot anymore, especially when it used to be on the Saturday. Me and the missus used to be out with our mates in Guildford after - and I used to have to run back to Aldershot (usually hungover) on the Sunday to watch the women's and kids event. Good times..

    Mix and match session last night - 800,1k,1600,1k,800 I think...something like that somehow, helping IK out in his 1-2-3-2-1k session. Just bit of a livener for the weekend.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Ah, Samir's thread...  I miss it so much.  It pulled the best out of me creatively, just a pity that I was playing to an audience of about 12 people.

    I remember Samir at the relays, 2014 I think, we were both on Leg 1.  He appeared at the start line about 10 seconds before the gun went off with his vest on backwards, and about 5 of us helped him put it right in time.  Then he shot off like a blue arsed fly and it took almost the whole first lap before I overtook him again.

    Scott, you were clearly more talented.  You couldn't go about 3 weeks of training without a bit of you falling off or exploding in sickening fashion, yet you still managed a 33:00 10K.  You had the innate running talent, but not the innate talent to run more than 25 steps without an important part of you turning into custard.  You did have some right old strops though, Samir certainly pushed your buttons.

    Great days.

    Anyway, I did the Reading Half.  Was targeting 70.  Didn't run 70.  Went off too fast, which didn't help, but in general terms it felt like I had very little in the tank.  Gradually died a death over the course of the race, culminating in Steph Twell coming past at about 11 miles.  Finished in 1:11:58.  The gun and chip time say 1:12:00, but I am not having that, the clock was definitely on 1:11:58 when I finished as was my watch.  Screw your additional 2 seconds!  Anyway, that's still my second fastest on that course, but I am definitely in better shape than that, as shown at Wokingham.  Onwards and upwards.

    I have had a bit of a nightmare work day, so apologies that I haven't had a proper read back, but fingers crossed for Pete on the England vest.  I will read properly when I have a moment.


  • First track session today since Apr 20th, 2017 (isn't the internet great at such things) so almost 2 years. Felt like it: the plan was originally 6*800m with a lap recovery but I decided to up it to 8*800m but soon saw sense and decided to back to 6 and when I needed 2 laps recovery after the 4th rep I cut it back to 5. Still, 4000m of effort is decent enough and the times pleasantly surprised me (3:07 to start with, way too fast but then 3:13s and 3:14s which isn't fast by many standards but is faster than I need to do for a decent 5k so it fulfils the aim of training faster than I intend to race.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good work Philip - quite literally, back on track :smile:

    I loved those plates Dachs :smile:  Shame about Reading, but as you say - you are in faster shape than that so plenty more to come this year.

    My legs are feeling like blocks of wood again, and yesterday's doubles were done at a snail's pace. So, today I tried to force something out of them today by adding in 12 x 50-60 double pace (about 0.2M) fartleks at around 5:45 pace on my standard off-road type route. Combining these with mud and hills hasn't really stopped them feeling like wood - which is a surprise :wink: . Still, it was more fun than a proper interval session on the road....
  • Well done at Fleet, Pete - shame about just missing the PB, but goes to show what you can gain by getting in the regular longer runs! Don't overplay the effect of the shoes, they're not magic, I'm sure I've read the supposed 4% increase in efficiency plays out to ~1% time improvement. Hope you make the selection!

    Nice work on the casual sub-80 Reg, part of me did hope you'd stick to your word and jog it in ;) hopefully you can get some more solid weeks in and give another race a crack.

    Joe, amazing running, and a solid PB! Your huge volume weeks have certainly been working well, and I look forward to seeing how you approach London now. Make sure you find a chance to convert this training block to PBs across the distances. 

    Muddy, that's a solid week's training, especially with a 20mi race to close. How are the legs feeling now?

    Dachs, sorry to hear you didn't hit 70, but you've definitely got more in you from your Wokingham time. Sometimes that's the problem with bigger races, too easy to get dragged along at the start.

    Dean & Simon, all the best for Poland - time to wrap yourselves in cotton wool!

    Solid workouts SW, SG & PMJ. 

    Good to see you back around Scott! It'll all come back when the dust settles, you're still heading here, there and everywhere with work?


    Legs felt better after an easy run yesterday, so I thought I'd follow up my threat of doing another session this week.
    Looked to build upon last week, so opted for a 4 x 2km continuous progression - making sure I concentrate throughout. Had a rough idea of what I wanted to achieve, thinking 10s faster per 2km, and managed better with 8:21 / 8:03 / 7:57 / 7:41. Second chunk was a bit too fast, and I wasn't able to shift gear for the third without overdoing it all. It was getting pretty tough at the end, and so I'm very pleased with 5mi total in a smidge over 32mins. 
  • Yep, definitely the 4%s are around economy and efficiency not making you faster by bouncing you further or anything

    Ali P an old poster who will lurk and 2.30 marathon runner got some through us at work and ran Bramley 20 in them, think his thoughts ate the latter stages when you really die they benefit you and also recovery is better. He then ran a PB at Fleet not wearing them soon after... 

    I had a pair reserved for me at work and I toyed with buying them for the sake of it, would have got them cheap too but like many of my shoes. Boxed and not worn. 

    I've aqquired a rather large collection 

    Matt yes, hello! Everywhere indeed. Think my last proper day off was when Lucas was born I reckon. 

    Scotland the other week and soon back to London for the big shows. Exciting

    Hard to keep up but Joe I think could do 72 agree and Reg if they wanted too. I don't think you need to drop any other training though Joe

    Pete for England hopefully and the big boys SC and Dean for medals
    Pain is weakness leaving the body
  • This Samir sounds like quite a character, quite gutted I wasn't around at that point!

    Dachs - sorry it didn't quite go to plan at Reading, but at worst it's a good session and some good training in the bank moving forward. I was also guilty of going off too fast, but it's hard not to get caught up and I think we had an early tailwind. 

    Great session Matt, seems like things are progressing nicely. Keep that consistency going and you'll progress pretty quickly. 

    Thanks for the vote of confidence Scott. Excited to see where I can go in the next few years. As long as you're doing what you enjoy, nothing wrong with that.

    Been a busy week at work, but final managed to piece together a proper Reading race report for SG:

    https://spragginsblog.wordpress.com/2019/03/21/reading-half-17-03-2019/

    Legs held up really well post Reading with, 13 (8+5), 8 and 20 (13+7) the last 3 days (all easy pace) as well as a fairly hard bike session Thursday.

    Tempo session with the club tonight.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Great read Joe, and forced me out of my planned "let the others post without me dominating 99.3% of the posts) intended spell.
    Looks excellently pulled off, especially the late 5.34.
    I remember taking a water at around 10miles there in 2015 (?) and it giving me a ridiculous lift to push the last bit - strange game at times.

    What's Katie's injury, knees then?
    How thin are the shins on the chap at the bottom of your report!? (coming from me!!)


    10 for me today, single. Struggling to escape the feeling I'm bucketing swimming pools of sweat at the mo - not like pre Wokey where also feeling hot headed/hands outside of runs tho. Maybe it's more humid than it looks... 7.05 pace suggests no real problems - just classic overthinking in the style of someone who has made 20,000 posts on a forum!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Quite annoyingly, clicking on "notifications" takes me into my own page, and no edit allowed at the moment...anyone else had that? Does it pass? It wants to!
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    Joe, Smairs thread was about beliefing (sp) he was destined to get in the GB team for Rio olympics.  Based on the fact he ran an unmeasured distance and knocked a few minutes off after some training.   He beliefed that the more you train the 2minutes would keep falling off in a linear fashion and he would be an olympian.   

    turned out his highlight was beating scott over a 10k on new yrs day (the thread biggest battle..good v evil...mental v mental'er :wink:), leading out the reading half marathon by sprinting the first mile flat out before trailing in in 90+ mins when reality bit that you cant sprint a half marathon flat out. 
    he did manage to move his PB from 80 mins to 77 mins over 2 yrs.  OK not bad but lets just say he narrowly missed out on the olympic selection.

    a highlight was this plate, commissioned (quite magnificently) by Dachs when the thread was closed down.  At the time it all made perfect sense... to show you how bizarre it was.  

    ,    
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Dachs has definitely missed his vocation....

    Yes SG, it is very humid today. I was also sweating buckets this morning.


  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭
    Morning everyone! While we're reminiscing, I'd just like to point out that some of my finest work was also produced on that thread, in particular this sonnet:

    A simple question – ‘joining Team GB’
    led to ten thousand posts of ridicule – 
    commemorative plates, pavement PBs
    scotch eggs – Samir was treated like a fool.

    His bobbleless bobblehat firmly secured
    our hero, undeterred, pursues his dream:
    food tech teachers hang on his every word
    (unless they’re lesbians) but still it seems

    Samir’s world record goal is no safe bet
    if he’s to prove his talent and beat Mo
    what’s needed is something we’ve not seen yet:
    jurassic improvements (thanks to D. DeVito)

    Sub 2 hours won’t be happening soon
    but shoot for the stars, you might just hit the moon.

    Btw I agree that Samir was never actually threatening two hours for the marathon, but it's worth considering that he had only just taken up running as a late teen. We've got very good juniors/young seniors in my club, including U23 women who can beat Samir's times, but they all came up through the distances with structured coaching from a fairly young age. So it's a bit unfair to compare his standard to theirs as he had plenty of potential improvements to make if he'd carried on.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Samir took his half pb from 1.20 to a low 1.17 in one year. Sep 2013-Sep 2014. 

    Zero structure to what he did, arguing with Scott until 1am on RW threads the day before his parkruns and the full english he had before racing Scott summing him up!

    Obvs the whole Rio thing added some delusion/comedy, in the way of previous types like Mike Rushton, and the woman who thought she was running solo, pavement 16min 5ks in her plimsols, but it shouldn't be used to play him down as "average". You only have to look at where his times would get him in most races to see he was certainly well above the average, and who knows where he could have gone with proper guidance and training. A shame.

    Comparisons against Scott are unfair too, as Scott has a superb talent - horribly disrupted by so many injuries. Feel for the chap, and still hope he has years of good training ahead.


    Bus - good to hear. I certainly am over conscious of this stuff these days.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Hello Lit - good to hear from you. I'd forgotten that sonnet :smile:
    Whatever else you can say about young Samir, he was certainly responsible for bringing out some genius creativity amongst his fellow threadsters! 
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Samir took his half pb from 1.20 to a low 1.17 in one year. Sep 2013-Sep 2014. 

    I went 1:28:33 (Gosport 1987) to 1:23:47 (Harrow 1988) to 1:16:33 (Gosport 1989)

    So it can be done.

    Ok Dean trained for two weeks and ran 1:23 and six months later did 1:15:00, so I'm well aware of my limitations.

    Talking limitations. A session I ran yesterday makes 6:30 mile pace in a 10k look ambitious. Checking the data, it seems it takes a couple of minutes for my HR to speed up at all and then only to around mid 160's bpm.

    Fast start in a race? Noooo!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Ric - That's a great improvement, and you ended with what i'd call a pretty good pb, (was it 73 or 74?).

    Yet after year 1, you were 6mins behind Haddad (plus every chance you'd put in more than he had pre first half) , and he only needed to find about 40 seconds to match your year 2 time.
    Could he have gone under your pb? Who knows. Most likely no unless he'd adopted some of your sense/diligence.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited March 21
    SG, it took me until 1992 to improve to 76:21 and after packing in running in 1994 for 18 months, came back and did 73:43 Battersea Park in 1997.

    My next fastest HM's were 74:50 & 75:40 but that 75:40 (2002) was the last occasion I broke 80 minutes. 

    All in all, I've run twenty odd HM's but only those three sub 76 efforts.

    Samir had the physical potential to break 70 minutes, but the physical is only part of the deal.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Yeah, the rest is beliefe...😆
  • I believe I can fly....:)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Samirs ability is sub 70 now?

    He was average a page or so back  😄😁
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited March 21
    No SG.

    Samir had the physical potential to break 70 minutes, but the physical is only part of the deal.

    Potential is not ability. And mental application is required to see the process through.

    He ran 26:40 for five miles off less than optimal training. That's sub 70 HM pace. 

    Hardly average.

    I forgot another HM pb sandwiched between the 1:23 and the 1:16. It was a 1:20:30 which I did at the GNR on a blazing hot day in June.

    So in the next five months I knocked four minutes off.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Eh - I think that was actually SG's point!

    Anyhoo - back to the real world of old duffers :smile:  Double day today (6.5+5.6) all at very easy pace. As is often the case with a double , the legs felt better tonight than this morning. Probably going to F-off tomorrow, with the intention of doing the Rye parkrun Saturday as it should have dried out a bit. That is if I can get up in time :smiley:
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    To be fair it was me who called him average not sg.   his pb was ranked 1141 that yr.  I would say in the whole scheme of things that's not that good a ranking.   But in fairness his parkrun times were decent.  But he did a lot of fitness for his boxing before finding running.
    Anyways as bus said, time to move on 😀. The king is dead, long live the king

    Simon, you ready mate?  What time is your race?


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