Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2019

    Ric, at the top of the page you were talking doing race pace stuff, not stuff you wouldn't match in a race.
    I presume you mean as a second session on top of the one you describe? 

    Id certainly prefer 30x200 at the reduced pace then mile reps at 5k or 2mile reps at 10k though i have to say.
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    I'd prefer not to have to run 20m runs sometimes SG!  ;) 
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    SG, not all running works for the best result (long term), even if it's do-able and even if it's fun.

    I think it's safe to say that all of us here on the thread are 'fit'. But even that description is debatable. There are levels which many around here disregard as nothing more than an obstacle between them and their ambitions.

    I operate through stages of which one follows the other. When one stage is covered, I move on to the next. Often there is a set back - literally. So I have to start again. How far down the line I get will determine if I ever race again, well.

    Stage 1. Eradicate illness and injury. Stage 2. Conditioning.  Stage 3. Session fitness. 4. Race fitness.

    I've spent an inordinate amount of time at stage 1 & 2 and only now is stage 3 getting a look in.

    How many are going straight from stage 1 to  3&4 ?

    The session stuff is means to an end. The pace differences only need to be slightly different to get a result. Busting a gut isn't a result to go for. That's over doing things.

    The idea is to give your body (it ain't a computer controlled by data) a hint you're about to do something really drastic, for which it needs to be better suited for the task.

    That means you need to do something slightly less drastic to send it the message. You only have to deliver the message. Not do the equivalent of ramming it down it's throat which is what full out effort max out sessions are.

    It's why 25 x 200m averaging 40 seconds with a suitable rest is more effective speed work than 25 x 200m averaging 44 seconds without stopping. It's the same volume but faster. 

    If the recovery is almost instant. Then that's a successful session. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    By the time you get a race in Ric, you won't know which part of the last 2 years has given it! Let's hope it stays together so you get to turn out at Staines though.

    ps - first rule of run club, is obviously you don't talk about run club. But second rule, has to be don't reveal someone's race before they do!

    In the meantime, did a proper loop long run for once, rather than one of my out and back variants. 14miler, plenty of ups and downs. 
    The last 3miles had a net down hill of about 380 feet. I dare trying to do the route in reverse would blow a gasket before I'd even got going. The one time I had vague ideas of doing so, I bottled it about 1/4 of the way up, and instead took a side road :D  

    There's one bit so steep, that you have to reduce your pace going down. And I even saw a lady - just some middle aged woman out walking,  in front jog down instead of walk down!
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    ps - first rule of run club, is obviously you don't talk about run club. But second rule, has to be don't reveal someone's race before they do!

    I assume you're talking about what others have done. Nothing I've said ever remotely qualifies. 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    RicF said:
    Breaking News.

    I think we have a WORLD CHAMPION in our midst.
    Maybe SG is referring to this? Nice 14 by the way.....

    No report yet, so must be some serious celebrating going on :smi:smile:

    Combination of loss of an hour, taking son to a rugby match this morning and going to see my daughter at a show in mo, meant a shorter than normal LSR today (just as well really!). 12.5M done though, which makes 50 for the week, and 4 weeks since wokingham averaging 50. 




  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Bus, I never said who and what at?

    Explain what information, identity and details have been revealed. In isolation, it's a meaningless comment. Cryptic perhaps, but still meaningless.

    SG, I'd say from the start of this year is where the progress has been made. The previous year was just leading up to that point. 

    Only race concern is how slowly my system wakes up to the task.

    My HR takes several minutes to get to best rate, and if one's HR doesn't match your race pace, an oxygen debt is guaranteed. This is crap for a decent race start. And my HR seems to have reduced to where 162 bpm is where I blow up.

    The irony is that body wise I'm in better shape than ever. It's the engine that has de-tuned (natural safety measure).

    Still, not many guys my age can run and cycle, let alone well. On reflection, quite a few guys don't even make my age.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    RicF said:
    Bus, I never said who and what at?

    Explain what information, identity and details have been revealed. In isolation, it's a meaningless comment. Cryptic perhaps, but still meaningless.


    Come on son, it hardly needed Phil Montague Jones style investigative work :D
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    ps convenient Bus, you just had to hit that 50 didn't you :) 

    And yeah, I'd forgotten the hour loss. I made it even worse by going to sleep an hour later than I would usually, just to increase the effect!
    Still - didn't do the club 20 which would have been an unnecessary long un!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Yes, difficult to work out given the plethora of potential world champions and world championship opportunities on the thread this weekend 😊
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    Stevie G said:
    RicF said:
    Bus, I never said who and what at?

    Explain what information, identity and details have been revealed. In isolation, it's a meaningless comment. Cryptic perhaps, but still meaningless.


    Come on son, it hardly needed Phil Montague Jones style investigative work :D
    ps - first rule of run club, is obviously you don't talk about run club. But second rule, has to be don't reveal someone's race before they do!

    This item is your own personal made up issue. No one else's.

    And yes Bus, you have to work it out. I didn't tell you.

    Here's something. Do any of you guys here ever tell anyone else outside this thread what you post, talk about etc?



  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    What's this about a world champion? I'm confused.
  • Ahoy team. I'll cut through the heated debate/random musing with an update from todays race. It's a duathlon but that means it's got 2 running legs so I think I can get away with it.

    Went to Sizewell parkrun yesterday (much to some on here's horror), knowing there could be a chance of a win (sorry, first finisher), if I chose to get carried away. Obviously I chose to get carried away, but just did the bare minimum, sitting on the poor chaps shoulder for 4.7km while he quite clearly drove himself into the ground before easing past with the finish in sight (18:55). What a w*nker Spraggins. 

    Main event was today. We all knew we were playing for 2nd place with professional triathlete Joe Skipper (7th pro in Ironman World Champs last year) showing up for a bit of fun. Everyone went off like lunatics as per, and I was sitting in about 10th after a mile, managing effort accordingly.

    Got a real buzz when I went through the first 5km in 17:30, feeling awesome (run distance was a random 3.3 miles). Hopped on my bike in 5th, quickly moving into 3rd and yo-yo'ing with 2nd for the 30km bike leg the entire time. Averaged 285w for the 50 mins which was slightly down on last year. 

    Guy in 2nd was crap at changing his shoes, so I slipped into 2nd and tore off, hoping to put a bit of daylight in early doors. From here on in, just running scared (he ran 10 seconds faster than me on the first run), but instead of looking back I'm frantically asking random spectators how far back he is. I'm getting mixed reports, anything from '10 seconds' to '200m', so just get on with it and run hard.

    There's a point at about 2.5 miles where you can look back, and thankfully he's not there. Biggest buzz of the day when I go through the 2nd 5km in 17:30 after an hour + of hard work. Got to have a look at that 5km PB in the near future. Enjoy the last few hundred metres and take 2nd for the second year in a row. 

    Two more big weeks now, before a two week London taper. 

    Still awaiting Dean's report! 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Sounds a good performance Joe. And call a parkrun 1st a win by all means - I certainly would!

    Heck, I'd misread your run report as being the "5k" was actually 3.3miles, meaning you were in effect doing a 16.30min 5k at least! But, while not quite that, 17.30 as a first part is still very tasty.

    Certainly have to get that 5k under 17 on that evidence. Maybe a Battersea Park face off/mutual pacing effort in the summer?


    Ric old son, just joshing, give me a forum hug <3 


    I'm still weighing up something mad trip wise, but I would fear for myself having to write it up, let alone you lot having to read it :o
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Good work Joe, tasty running legs. I entered a Duathlon today, 5 minutes later I realised I was going to be in Paris at the time.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Decent piece of work all round Joe.

    SG, that's ok. we're cool.

    Under the circumstances, when a guy we know on here gets the greatest result of his life, the least we can do is acknowledge that we were taking any notice of what he was doing.

    That doesn't invalidate the achievement, quite the opposite.

    So, our World Champion is on his way. The details of the victory we await. Of those I know nothing at all.
  • Ah yes - the World Champion should be sober enough to write his report I would have thought - and if anyone watched it, it's not going to be the most interesting report tbh!

    Decent weekend for me. All went over to do the new parkrun at Marston Vale - off the A421 to Bedford from the M1. My mate from Bmth was visiting his brother in law who lives in LB, so took him over too. Course is a weird halfway around the lake on a gravelly path and then back again. Took off steady, got to halfway in 8.30, and then the return took a little less and got back first in 16.31. The officials thought this was amazing - but I did warn them that Andy Baddely lives nearish to here and may well be visiting soon!

    Had to put the hammer down a little as the V50 1500m final was 9.23 our time and Dean's V45 race at 9.30 - had to get back to the car to get the iphone to watch it.

    11/12 mile long run, pushed it a little bit, probably 6.45 pace, but will need to check.

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Excellent duathlon Joe and particularly impressed with the 2nd run as I have found that one really hard coming off the bike leg in my limited duathlon experience. Which one have you entered Reg?; might be interested in taking your place you can't make it, if its local, fits my schedule and doesn't have too much of a bike focus.

    Good parkrun Simon and still decent pr Bus too; you hadn't done them for a while so a few more and you will be back in the 18's again I reckon. 

    Also look forward to any imminent report from Poland and if anyone in our midst has won a gold that is a phenomenal achievement deserving of great plaudits (so get on with the report Dean ;) )

    Unusual weekend's running for me. Firstly no parkrun as had promised to accompany my daughter to her 1st official Cani-Cross 5k race. Was good fun and acted as an unofficial pacer for her (and the dog!) and she came home 2nd 'lady' in 25'12. Not bad for a 13 year old and she was delighted to get a proper adult prize for that (£30 running shop voucher). Maybe her future is in Cani rather than pure running ;) .

    Yesterday was an experiment to help assess the real impact of wearing VF's. Ran my club 10k Handicap again but in ordinary road shoes (Asics DS trainers) rather than VF's that I had done the Jan and Feb events in. Conditions very similar so a fair test, but the event had a complete absence of decent runners (nearly all training for VLM or other marathons) so amounted to a TT for me which was a bit soul destroying for 10k. Also still felt sluggish after a bad cold during the week. All in all not too disappointed with 38'59; it compared as expected to 38'10 and 38'00 in the first two which were both VF runs. I think I could have got about 38'40 without the cold/solo running so have concluded the VF's are worth about 1.5%. This would mean my recent 1'24'03 HM would have been about 1'25'20 without VF's which sounds about right. Guess the other issue is the value add from VF's will quickly diminish as they age; like SG's mine are already looking a bit scuffed across the heel and I have only run 40 miles in them (admittedly all in races).      
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    I dare say the issue with the Vapors is that mentally you already take a hit when you don't wear them now. Similar to when I used to do the Wycombe 10k, and "know" that it wouldn't be near top end time, so immediately you lose a bit.

    Right now I'm not sure I'd go for another pair, although still early days of course! I still can't get away from a feeling that the normal racers are closer to the ground and you "feel" the pace more, if that makes sense.

    You are a strange runner in a lot of ways though Pete. General rules don't seem to apply with you.
    A 20 seconds estimated reduction after a bad cold would be an excellent performance, but every chance you're right, as you don't seem to be affected by stuff like others.

    The examples from my club, I still believe they're all personally at the top of their form anyway - all doing higher mileage with more consistency than they have before. Jill has been putting in 90mile weeks for instance, so it's certainly not just any shoes giving her the performances! I've also clocked Wool doing massive miles too.

    But anyway - maybe will try at a longer distance at some stage!!


    Ric - Dean's achievement won't be missed, don't worry!  I had to check his prior record as there's a lot of high level stuff in there, but this one has to be the peak of his mountain. 
    Has to be the opportunity to keep doing it each year/2 years too?
    Or would retiring at the top be an option? Probably not a great one :)
  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭

    Massive congratulations to Dean, World Champion is an amazing achievement! Looking forward to hearing the report.

    Joe - Congrats on the 2nd place! You definitely need to turn out for a 5k! I think I saw you will be spectating at Manchester, I'll look out for you! Will you have the flat cap on?

    Great 10k Pete and I like the analysis on the Vaporflys, I can be quite heavy on my heels at times so I think I would wreck them in one marathon!

    Simon - Rapid parkrun! Will you be at the MK 5000m PB special? I'm considering entering, SG could be one for you to consider if you fancy a track race!

    Into the final week no so just easy for me. Split tempo last Friday as a little tune up. 3m at 6.45, 2m at 6.35 and 1 at 6.25 with 1m steady recoveries. Looking forward to raceday now!

  • Cheers SW - Yes SW, keep meaning to enter...might do it now actually! Its nice as I go on holiday on the Monday.
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    man, i got a headache.  not one beer since xmas day then from 10.40am saturday i caught up 3 months worth in about 12 hours.

    world masters championships in poland - was flying in training and felt i could affect the medals if given a chance.   The venue was world class, its IAAF standard and hosts indoor diamond leagues so you get a buzz when you enter the stadium.

    First up was the 800m semi final.  i was drawn against the joint gold favorite and winner of the 3000 already Crespo, the polish champion and italian champion.  Crespo has a 1.58 a few weeks ago (better than my 2.02). The Pole and Italian are strong competitors and with 2 to qualify it was a tough race to be drawn in.

    https://www.facebook.com/dean.richardson.5872/videos/10157347126549994/?t=0

    the race is above.   its pedestrian slow but im well placed.  with just over 200m to go crespo goes past but i decide not to battle and observe his tactics and not show him mine.  he cuts in very early to break your stride. but the pole attacks and i have to accelerate hard to maintain the 2nd spot holding him off and in the end all 3 of us qualify for the final.  i felt strong and very confident for the final.

    800m Final - i dont know what happened.  And thats the problem.  i heard that the americamn was going for a 1.56 usa record and thought he isnt going to drag me round and kill us both so i decided to sit just of the lead in lane 2 so i cant get boxed.  Crespo barges out cutting up his team mate then cuts in too early to take the shoulder of the lead.  i give him a push in the back, the aussie gives him a few.  through 400 in 61ish but i dont do anything.  another lap of me in lane 2/3.  doing nothing.  no reaction nothing. just running alongside.  Bell goes and it livens up.  i have the aussie and franco boxed in so im thinking im in a good spot but i donrt react at all to the change in pace and they all get out.  i chase but its too late i know im too far behind.  Lost in a blink of the eye.  i get past the pole and close in on the aussie but finish 5th.   the time is the fastest i have done this yr but i was in much better shape than that.  if you see the footage below we do a race line up photo after and i look crestfallen totally pissed off.  Why did i race 810m?  because im out in lane 2/3 for the majority.  what a rookie error.  why didnt i go from the gun?  why didnt i make a move at 400m?  why didnt i do anything?  i was so passive?  was it a lack of concentration, attitude, ability or something else.  I was down.  i jog a warm down and make a decision.   im going rocky 4 on this now.  im cutting myself off from everyone.  no more facebook, no more texts, no more going to the stadium 2 hrs before to chat to people.   i do swap the odd message with people such as my coach, wife, kids and the simon coombes.  Simon was the only one who didnt take the piss. i didnt watch the race back and hadnt until today.

    https://youtu.be/L_wRNs6Z7BY?t=16365


  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    next day was the 1500m semi final.  i feel tired and very grumpy.  i get 3hrs sleep.  im not exactly a ray of sunshine until i speak to my wife basically says to me "have you done all that training, all the sacrifices to throw it all away now with feeling sorry for myself.  the 800 has gone, it wasnt good but go and show everyone you can bounce back".  wise words.  next i text my coach and say im revved up for the 1500, im calm for the semi but im going all in for the final.  he text back " you finished fast and crespo looked tired" i smile
    the semi final is largely unexciting apart from a faller at the gun so it was a restart.  jogged round in 4.20 felt strong, no heavy legs and im focused.  race finished around 6pm, final next morning 10.30.  no recovery time.

    1500 final:  im up early.  get all the nutrition and drinks in me and head to the track.  still avoiding everyone.  i see Crespo who nods at me and says...RICHARDSON and then smiles.  i then see mark symes who asks what he think my tactics will be...am i going from the gun?  i reply uncommitted, how i need to see how i feel as im tired (im not).  i know what im going to do but he is stood with irish ex olympian (Healy) who is a mate of o'shea who i fear in the final.  im not giving anything away.  in the call room i get a little nervous.  unlike me.  but my goal is simple.  im going all in.  its a ballsy move as 4th race in 4 days, the 2 Spaniards are quicker, o'shea has had a week of rest, the aussie and american have speed.  if it goes wrong its going to completely fall apart.  but if i get it right its going to shock them.  Gold or nothing then!   in the call room, Franco (winner of the 800) doesnt appear.  turns out he got injured making that outstanding sprint for the 800 Gold.  im not overly unhappy :smile:  one less to worry about.

    Gun goes and im off, laters!  plan was to hit 65s laps.  first lap 65.  im out in front.  800 in 2.13.  slowed a little but im ok.  i decide to drive into the last 600 and put pace into the most difficult part of the race.  in the video you can see the little bit of acceleration.  400 to go and i have a decent lead.  the noise if unbelievable.  it doesnt come across on the video but its loud.  shouts all the way round.  go on deano, go GB etc  or it was spanish shouts.  so i knew crespo was making his move. in fact (watching the video later) he was closer than i thought.  Hit the bell, know he is going to move now.  he is fast and strong so give him no encouragement.  put a burst in.  im feeling strong so i go, if i can do a 29sec close he will have to do a 28 and that aint easy at this pace. but i think hold a little back for the last bend.  infront of the crowd.  all the way in i know he is closing but i take off.  shouts from strangers for Deano buoy me, im not giving this up, i hit the straight and grit my teeth and go. i accelerate and when i respond i know i have it. i have another gear left...crossing the line in 4.05 (indoor pb for me)  im buzzing and hugging everyone.  last 400 was 59/60s.   run off the front.  in the 800 i was passive...i didnt affect the race...this time i did.  i prefer this way.  never to old to learn.

    the race
    https://www.facebook.com/dean.richardson.5872/videos/pcb.10157355714299994/10157355708194994/?type=3&__tn__=HH-RH-R&eid=ARD7J6dlANI0vrwaswXPwG0ZQZkER8zXCrLY4uSKiLmg5sxsIxY5cnTnyMoJuy1C0mcWIDgSMFoLh94w

    medal ceremony (already had a few lagers!)
    https://www.facebook.com/dean.richardson.5872/videos/pcb.10157355714299994/10157355712839994/?type=3&__tn__=HH-RH-R&eid=ARAvFDiaKsXLZCOJfodkbpDSWVbNklKK0ed0E6y1_pwqe1JUPO9oPXvR7E4Atr3Fxmrd3F1XyUQYK39k

    The atmosphere was amazing.  as we had a "super Saturday" moment.  in 20mins and 4 golds in consecutive races.  guy bracken in the m55, symes in m50,  me in the m45 then james Thie in the m40 (yep the Commonwealth games and european champion in his time)  the GB growd went batty.  

    Speaking with the chaps in the race after they were all suprised i went from the gun.  dont know why...as i did that in madrid and the last 2 british champs. maybe after the 800 they thought i wasnt in shape like malaga.  not sure.  but i knew what shape i was in.

    basically drank heavily until about 4 in morning, then realised the clocks went forward an hour so was really 5am, wasnt worth sleeping as i had to go to the airport @ 7am.  so found a 24hr kebab house and had a 2 foot long doner/chicken mix kebab and they put the chips in it.  i was slumped eating that as a chap and his wife walked in and went ...hey buddy, great race today, left them standing.  i smiled and had a chat as i forced doner meat in.  Classy!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Brilliant Dean! Very pleased for you!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    Superb Dean (and that's just the report ;)); the race wasn't bad either! Must be an incredible feeling crossing the line, especially when you've taken it on from the front. Bet that Spaniard got a nasty shock when you kicked on again 200 out as he looked all over the winner just before that point :)  What sort of quality are the medals? Real gold? Great to see Mark and the other British vets amongst the golds too. 
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    Congratulations Dean Rik-Hard-Son, I had no idea you were even competiting, what a nice surprise.
  • SG - defo up for a Battersea burn up. Giving my 10km PB a go the week before London, but want to make the most of this form and see what I can muster for 5 at some point soon.

    Pete - Interesting VF experiment, glad you did it so we didn't have to. I guess that sounds about right, based on various reports from people I know. 

    Stevie - I'll be there for sure. Most likely have the flat cap on, although I'll be getting about on my bike so may have a helmet instead! Let me know number/outfit/pacing strategy and I'll keep an eager eye out for you. 

    And finally, massive congrats to Dean. That really is amazing mate. Something you'll never forget, and on a proper stage, unlike the rest of us mugs (barring Simon maybe..)
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    That's just brilliant Dean - 'World Champion' must have a nice feel to it :smile: Looking forward to watching the videos when I'm home tonight.
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