Moraghan Training - Stevie G



  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    PeteM said:u
    It was Maidenhead 10 from a few days ago Ric; it's always like that as there is a monument/statue in the middle of the mini roundabout just after the start and you can go either way round. Best is to start on the inside and go round on inside but lots don't appreciate that. Some start middle or wide then try to go inside route cutting across and then the problems occur. 

    IMO the srart is dim as they could easily adjust the course to have an extra bit in the business park then avoid that chaotic start. 
    Maybe it's not changed in decades so it's tradition, but yes, move the course forward to start the other side and then just have the finish another 400m on.
    Maybe it's too narrow where that finish would be though.
    Also it works well that it's half a mile back to the business park and then two quarter mile sections. You're already gagging for the finish without more.

    It's a great race once you've got the business park and roundabout bits done and a boost that it's 4miles in and properly starting.
    Great last mile too. Automatically feels fast after the dirge of mile 9
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    It's scary that I last did it in 2010!!!

    The earlier version of the route started at some place up Westacott Way rather than the business park and I remember hearing a couple of guys talking about going sub 60 and thinking they must be proper runners! I also remember the long section on Westacott way where you see the lead runners coming toward you with Phil Wicks having a massive lead, his tongue lolopping out like a greyhound's!

    Easy 4M recovery tonight. I don't normally run on a Monday after a long run, but the weather is so nice it would have been rude not too :smile:
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2019

    In 2006, he was literally A mile ahead! Ridiculous quality. I just can't imagine being that good you can turn up pretty much any class of race in the country and be a contender outright.

    Odd week this week then, 2 drives up to Manchester, one up and back on the same day - but also the week off work.

    Quads still felt a little bit on the 8 this morn, so most likely will do a pair of easy runs tomorrow, rather than the club sesh in the evening, which would involve 2x40min drives.

    Therefore will probably do a 5k paced session as a single on Wed, and then drive up north. Little pootle on the Thursday as soon as I get back, and most likely the week's long run on Friday - with Wycombe away at Wimbledon sat, and up and back to Manc on Sunday :)

    Sunday looks the most sensible rest day, but Thursday at a gentle 4 will be easy.

    I had looked at the most insane plan of staying up there in between games, but the racing plan got carried away to - Salford Quays 5k Thur, Chester 5k Friday, Blackpool 5k Saturday, and Morecambe 5k Sunday.

    But I realised the amount of driving, hanging about and cost involved, plus basically most likely putting in 4 x sub paced efforts made the whole thing absolutely ridiculous - plus it would have taken about 13 posts to write up ;)

  • Simon Coombes 2Simon Coombes 2 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019

    Good running all - PeteM and Muddy with the Parkrun, SG with a tidy, steady 10, Jools with the fell race.

    I too was in Dorset, down in Poole visiting the folks for Easter, with lots of beach hut time and ice creams - and paddling in the very cold water. A bit better than that 800m in a hailstorm I did last week! Running wise..

    Weds - dropped off at Mecca (Vitality stadium) and ran to my folks house via the beach. Really misty - was weird when I got to the top of the cliffs and how warm the mist was coming up and over the top! Not often you are between the piers and can't see either of them. About 6 miles all in.

    Thurs - Ran 6 miles to Canford school and did 10 x 400 barefoot on the lovely wet manicured grass. Somehow after 9 reps managed to take the skin off the bottom of both big toes. Did the last rep, in pain, obviously. Averaged 70's weird barefoot.

    Friday - Long run in the heat, tortuous. 11 miles or so

    Saturday - Bmth parkrun, 2nd in 16.21, felt quite good as there are a couple of hills and twisty bits on each lap.

    Sunday - sod all.

    Yesterday - Langmay trophy, back home in LB. Back first in 30.45 - for 5.6 miles or so, about 34 for a 10k. started steady, so things starting to get there I think.

    Reg - think I need to start my no cakes, biscuits or sweets diet again too.

  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    PeteM said:
    Brilliant parkrun there Muddy and augurs well for VLM. What's your target there?
    Blimey Pete - I wouldn't be tackling a jog to the corner shop the day after a 10 mile race !

    Thanks on the parkrun. I don't have targets for races usually except the broad one which is to make the most of whatever my current fitness is (aka don't be shit).

    I can maybe do a bit of prediction/comparison off recent/past efforts if that stops me evading the question :) 


    2.50.58 for 26.2 miles on 23/04/17 av hr. 153 bpm


    2.06.58 for 20.0 miles on 17/03/19 av hr. 144 bpm 6.22 min/mile
    1.18.21 for 13.1 miles on 02/04/19 av hr. 154 bpm 5.57 min/mile

    I've probably dropped a couple of heartbeats from max over the past couple of years due to aging so I am more likely to do a full effort marathon averaging 151 bpm nowadays.

    The last two recent efforts (forgetting about gradients) in the 'Present' table above show 10bpm difference for 25 seconds of pace different. So I lost 2.5s per mile off pace for a reduction of 1 bpm of effort.

    Working up from the 20 mile run (probably more accurate for a marathon prediction) 151 bpm would give me 6.22 - 7x2.5s, so let's say 6.05 min/mile.

    Off my recent 5k time Jack Daniels VDOT tables suggest 6.13 min/mile.

    I would be very happy with any of these paces over a marathon ! I should add that neither of those efforts were tapered - the 20 miler closed off an 80 mile week, and the half closed off a 60 mile week.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    That target's as clear as Muddy then.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

     Muddy, I need to take you out on the town, as I'd look like a fun guy in comparison :D

    Best of luck though :)

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Think the short answer is your target is about 2'45 then isn't it Muddy🤔
  • You know Pete my first thought was, who knows really, it’s the marathon. I should’ve stuck with that :)

    Tonight I’ve done 3m at marathon effort which averaged 6.25 min/mile, which was the same as Sunday’s 3m at marathon effort within a longer run.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
     I wonder how many runners who are still flying along appreciate how aging puts the block on performance regardless of intent and application.

    The heart is a pump. The more blood it shifts, the faster the oxygen is supplied to where it's needed. As well as that. There's the rate the lungs can process the oxygen and get it into the blood stream as well. 

    Age stuffs both of those aspects. Less oxygen absorption and less rate of deployment. And no amount of 'forcing' the issue will change that.

    Not many realise that at the maximum HR, the heart doesn't pump the maximum amount of blood that it can. The flow becomes relatively turbulent. That's why the most effective races are controlled affairs.

    That aside, the rest of the deal can be at least made as good as possible. Muscles conditioned and adapted. Flexibility and range of movement. Low body fat - higher power to weight ratio. Diet.

    My HR at sustained levels has stepped down from 180bpm, first to 173bpm and now it seems, to about 160bpm. My proposed turn out at Staines has the unknown attached to it. One way to find out.

    Right then. Soon to go out and get the HR up to speed. 

    During the last interval session (intervals are HR training) I was getting 162bpm when running and up to 165bpm in the moments after I stopped. It's a lot easier than maxing out actually running.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    That said, there's still some impressively quick older runners about, so maximising the things they can affect.

    Personally, I'm feeling very sorry for myself! My back is extremely painful and I can't get comfortable or relieve it whatever I do. It seemed to be making good progress, and running was no problem yesterday. However, I  rode my bike to the station this morning and that seems to really have scuppered things! It's worse than it ever was, and I can't even contemplate going for a run at the moment. :disappointed:  I'm also concerned about my knee, which doesn't seem to be making progress. It still doesn't hurt when running on the flat or downhill, though increasingly causing a problem walking and sometimes when running up a steep slope. I'm a blood wreck! 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Just getting to Staines will be a success Ric. Will that be your first race since the one there 2 years ago? Or was there some Metros thing in there too, a relay maybe? Sort of have half a memory, but maybe not?

    Anyway, as i'm on a lazy week off, there was no way I was doing my usual up at 6 for getting going to the track for 7. After all, it's unlikely any school will be there, so awkward is the track to book, and it only being April.

    Therefore, got to the track, bloody school on there! :o

    Just to make it even sillier, they're standing on the straight, chucking javelins about!

    Buggered out of dodge quick smart, and decided I'd do a similar session next to a local park, on a lovely straight road. Next to a main road, but still lovely.

    Figured that if I did the original 8x600 (or maybe 2mins), i'd run out of road, and have to run across some road entrances, or into some rough, so trimmed it to 1.30s, but 10.

    Therefore, 10x1.30, off 1.30.

    Had a blast, didn't feel "That" fast, but pleased to see all of them under 5.20, bar 1, which was 5.21. A couple of outliers at the faster end while i got my bearings.

    As the original session was 8x600,2x400x2x400, I thought i'd add a bit of extra on the end, so added 4x30secs hard - all nicely under 5 pace.

    Romeo Dunn - so bath, eat, and off to United, for a most bizarre premise, where a win would help us, but a loss would stop the most hated rivals win the league. What a carry on!

    See if i can better my record of 3 goals for United in 8 games this season!!!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    X post - missed that Bus.

    Sounds an impressive body of work there. Looks like a period of recovery -no parkruns or insane hilly routes for a bit, and stick to a bit of walking, and gentle flat stuff, and start from there?

  • Shit Bus...hope it gets sorted soon mate.
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Yes Bus, get well soon  :(

    SG, yes I think it might be two years. Check out one Bob Bradbury age 65. He always does the Staines 10k, and has just run 29:30 for 5 miles. He hasn't been this fast for years. I guess he must have retired from whatever, and has more time to train.

    Another session for me this morning (no 6). Same old, same old but...covered over five miles this time, as against only 4.3 miles 15 days ago. 

    I seem to be recovering well. If it rains tomorrow I may well run again instead of a day doing something else.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    I know Bob as he runs for Woking AC, fairly near me. You are right with your guess about being retired and more time to train Ric. He has also run just over 18 for a 5k and 81'xx for Fleet Half this year and, with the 5 miler you mentioned, is no 1 UK v65 for all those distances. Hope for us old gits yet ;)
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Cheers chaps. After 3 hours sat in one place in a stoopid meeting (would have gone home, but had to wait until I could get a lift!) then a car journey that seemed to hit very pothole possible, it's 'kin agony now!!! Backs hey? Who'd have 'em! Beer, strong painkillers and lying down on a hard flat surface are my plan now :smile: 
  • PeteM said:
    Think the short answer is your target is about 2'45 then isn't it Muddy🤔
    I'd say 2:45 is the upper limit, realistically between 2:45 and 2:50. 65:25 pace is 2:48. I did 2:08 for a 20 and that delivered just outside 2:50, muddy 2:07 if you ignore the change so 2:45 is a bit of a stretch. 
  • Oddly rewarding run today: I am in Belgium (beer, chips and mayo) but it is pan flat where I am so I caught a train out for 15 minutes and then ran back pretty much along the same route the train took (both follow the canal) and the scores on the doors were 9 miles in 70 minutes so 7:48 pace. Often you get no idea of how far or fast you are running, today with the train ride out it seemed to be a tangible distance to run back. Also, the fastest I have run over any distance since Maidenhead 10 last Easter and it was really not so hard. Things are looking up  :).
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    That's good Philip. I've developed a bit of a taste for Belgian beer since our trip to Bruges last year. Just a shame it's so expensive here!

    Always difficult to extrapolate from a 20 to a marathon. I did a 2:04:56 but a marathon, 2 months later was only 2:55:00.

    Saw a doctor today about the back, as there was no relief overnight. He reassured me that it is nothing serious, but I am struggling to sit, stand, lie down or walk without extreme difficulty and transitioning between these is intensely painful so running is also not an option.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    No idea why that first bit came out so big!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Very swift 20 Bus. I'm having back issues myself at the minute so I empathise. I know it's my hamstrings & hip flexors tightening up from too much sitting but no way round it other than giving up work. Spent my lunch break on the foam roller rather than running to try & free them up + I'm on a 2x10K commute today so no need for the extra miles. April's looking very light mileage wise after some big months in the Brighton build-up
  • Afternoon team. Been slammed at work, I've read along but not had much time to post. Apologies for that. Nice racing from those in Maidenhead and hope the back issues clear up Bus. 

    Been harbouring some kind of illness for the last week or so which has been a tad annoying. Probably not helped by stubbornly racing a 10km on Eatser Friday. I'd dragged a mate along to help pace me to (hopefully) a fast time. Through 5km in 17:30 but faded badly for a 35:41, which matched my PB to the second. This was after I'd had a sulk and sauntered over the line instead of sprinting. Tart. I know (I hope) I've got more than that when fresh. 

    Not sure where that leaves me ahead of the small event that seems to be going on in London on Sunday. Going to roll the dice and see how many 6 minute miles I can run.

    Brief 10km report and pre-race thoughts on the blog if anyone wants a read;
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2019

     Wondered where you were JB. I thought you normally savoured the race reports :)

    Will check yours in a bit. Unusual by your standards that little bit of flouncing. Doesn't look "that much" of a meltdown either to be honest. Never knock a pb, as you never know what circumstances will come up! I'm sure that's Moz wisdom from years back.

    While you have a good chance of 2.40-2.45, be careful with too sharp a start! Especially if you've had an awkward week illness wise.

    Bus is spot on with his take of Phil's 20mile versus Marathon rating for Muddy.

    For starters, it depends what level you've put into the 20. Secondly, it depends on your other times relative to it. Muddy's half was well above yours at the time of your 2.50 Phil, and I'd say your 2.50 was paced perfectly that day.

    If Muddy gets the right weather, and puts the shift he's capable of, there's no reason he can't kiss that top end. (erm, so to speak ;) )

    4.5miler for me, after a drive back from the North.

    A new record for me, 3 United games in a row without seeing them score! That's also (if I may add the Arsenal away game in too for giggles), a mere 3 goals In 9 games!

    I only need to see a third of a goal to match that!

    With another United game Sunday, and Wimbledon v Wycombe away Saturday, I'll do my LSR tomorrow, and try and get it all into a 50mile week. That works as a post Maidy "recovery" week, had a session and will have a long un, and it's not often I'll go to 3 footy games needing a fair drive in the same week - so it's fine.

    Bus - Jools -heal up - need to keep all the supportive lads fit and in form, as otherwise, the threat of this site finally dying - and having to move this elsewhere may become a real thing...was chatting with Curly who used to be a big poster on the Middle Ground thread (and here sometimes) about such a thing.

    I know other well numbered posters such as Barnsley Runner and his wife Dawn have found similar, and moved to a FB group.

    Wouldn't work for the race reports as such I guess. Did have the website blog for a while - but here is better.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear about the back Bus. I saw the doctor about a bad back and he said something like, people just get bad backs sometimes. So in other words you have no fucking clue.

    I quite like this shite forum, it's better than FB because it takes a bit of dedication thereby weeding out most of the morons.

    As long as that illness has cleard your system you'll be fine Joe, if you don't run well then that's the reason. The fitness is there.

    Not much from me, just easy running. Off on a cycling weekend tomorrow but there's a storm on Saturday so I will probably bin the ride for a fell run. Anyone done the Big Cheese? It's in Cheddar surprisingly. When I ask that question I am only really looking at Jools! I was planning on following the route.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Presumably that's not the one where people roll down a mountain after some cheese?!
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Thought there was a chance I was going to join the walking wounded this morning.

     Tripped over a tree root in the woods and down I went. I have to say, I dealt with the fall with a fair amount of skill.

    Not a scratch or even shaken up. Good job I've done all that upper body strength work.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    RicF said:
    Thought there was a chance I was going to join the walking wounded this morning.

     Tripped over a tree root in the woods and down I went. I have to say, I dealt with the fall with a fair amount of skill.

    Not a scratch or even shaken up. Good job I've done all that upper body strength work.
    At least it would have been easy to find the root cause of the injury.

    No it's not the chase the cheese one. That is mental.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Ric - you were saved as you've basically beefed your upper body up to Arnie levels, so just bounced off the floor? That sort of thing?

    A trip in the woods is very easily done - and often very easily an ankle turn or worse.

    I know 3 Dashers who have currently done similar - ranging from trips to landing awks.

    I've a few times landed on the side of my foot and thought that was close. Did do my ankle ligaments over a decade ago now - in football. One of these very nominal little contacts, but such a serious injury out of it.

    Certainly don't miss playing football these days. I never wanted to be one of those players whose pace and fitness has long gone, who take to the pitch 3-4 stone heavier than everyone else, covered in strappings. But it's that injury risk I couldn't face now.

    Once you lose that "invincibility" thing as a footballer, you're half way finished I think.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Those push up things help. When I was on the way down, instinctively, I knew I could save the worst simply by taking the impact through my arms. The rest of the job was executed with a well timed roll.

    Needless to say I was lucky that I had room to do all of this. A cliff top path or a patch covered in 'items' might have had a different outcome.

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